The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: supplies for smallholders on March 04, 2011, 07:21:39 pm
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On another thread a discussion took place on worms in pigs - we offered two worm count kits free of charge, one each to the first two people to pm me, on the understanding that the results would be published on this forum.
The first results are now back from the lab, which were the results from one of Lillian Waddell's pigs - When I received the results I checked with Lillian that it was still ok to publish, and she has kindly agreed.
The results for Lillians sample are : 400 epg strongyloides ransomi (Threadworm)
epg = eggs per gramme of sample material
A count of greater than 300 epg is classed as a high count
A level of less than 100 epg is classed as background acceptable level
So even though this pig was showing no obvious signs of worm infestation and nothing obvious in the droppings the count of worm eggs is High.
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i would like to add to this post that the pigs (4)have been in this woodland retreat since early Nov and none have shown signs of worms however they will be moved shortly and be wormed
NOW ON THIS WORM THREAD HAS ANYBODY EVER SHONE A TORCH INTO A FIELD WATER TROUGH WHEN DARK (OBVIOSLY) JUST HOLD THE LENS A FEW MM ABOVE THE WATER YOU WILL SEE RED GREEN AND BLUE WORMS?????? THIS WAS WHEN WE HAD CATTLE MANY YEARS AGO WE HAVE NEVER TRIED THIS WITH THE PIGS WATER SUPPLY AS IT IS REGULARLY CLEANED OUT
COMMENTS ARE ACCEPTABLE
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Hi Lillian,
Those are most likely to be mosquito larvae and not worms.
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IN SCOTLAND it is never very warm
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You still get midges and mossies though - been bothered by them up there myself near rivers......
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The second set of results are now back from the lab, which were the results from one of Leri's pigs - When I received the results I checked with Leri that it was still ok to publish, and she has kindly agreed.
The results for Leri's sample are : 2600 epg strongyloides ransomi (Threadworm)
epg = eggs per gramme of sample material
A count of greater than 300 epg is classed as a high count
A level of less than 100 epg is classed as background acceptable level
It;s interesting that neither Lillian or Leri had seen no indications of a high worm burdon (nothing in the droppings etc) and that in the case of Leri, the ground had never housed pigs before.
Anyway, I personally am now convinced that carrying out a count is a vital element of the worming and rotating plan, and will continue to use and sell the kits.
Thanks to both of you for agreeing to have your results published.
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a bit of forensics is required here i think and a worying aspect to pig keepers in general :wave:
there is no point in burrying your head in the ground since the worms are there
more people should test for worms? :wave:
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Agreed - But again I fear that it is smallholders who are falling behind the commercial producers - especially the Farm Assured or other approved ones - they have to have scheduled vet visits and carry out regular counts.
Just "tickling their tummies" is sometimes not enough on the welfare side ;D
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I am really shocked at these results! Want to test another couple of pigs now! Have seen the kits in Wynstay here. The one I did test was bought in September at 7 months old and has piglets with her that i intend weaning next week. She's indoors at the moment, but has been outdoors here. So if she had them when she came - then they'll all have them now I suppose. Or obviously any of the pigs could have hed them when bought as weaners - but none of them have ever shown any signs and have only ever used Verm - X :-(
Have got some Flubenol in - but haven't worked out how to work out the doses properly.
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What really surprises me, is that this thread has not generated more posts and less than 200 views to date.
Is it a case, as Lillian said above, of people burying their heads in the ground?
Have any pig / sheep readers of this post actually thought to themselves "I might have a problem as well" and sought out a worm count from their Vet / Farm Supplies or Us? If so it would be interesting to know how many have.
Thanks
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Me :wave:
I've just decided to switch from routine worming of the horses, to having counts done ... we have also just taken in a rescue pony so I'd like to know what to treat her for as she's no doubt full of the horrid things!
This led me to thinking I should do the same for the pigs, all I need to do now is find out the cheapeset way to do it for 3 horses and 3 pigs!! ;D
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This might be a daft question but how does this worm count test work? What do you have to do?
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I've just sent off samples to the lab today using the SFS service for chickens, sheep and goats. Can't wait to see the results now. It's like waiting for exam results.
It was fun getting fresh samples though! I finally got a sheep one after about 15 mins of watching, but the goats, who normally produce droppings while walking, didn't perform when I asked them. The chicken poo I had to grab before my dog ate it. :D
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This might be a daft question but how does this worm count test work? What do you have to do?
Hi - No questions are daft - but sometimes the answers are ;D
Its quite easy really, collect a small sample of fresh droppings, place in the pot, place in the pre-paid envelope, fill in a couple of things on a form, pop in the post and wait for the results, which in the case of kits from us are sent by email as soon as they are received from the Lab.
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If you get a high worm count how can you clear the ground again? If the eggs etc remain viable for 5 years it seems like its a death knell for keeping pigs >:(
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Hi,
Yes some types stay viable for upto 5 years outside the animal.
Thats why it is best to know what type of worm you are dealing with and set up an appropriate worming / ratation / resting policy.
Thanks
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Might be interesting to try testing our boys then, as it's so straightforward - I had visions of me having to dissect turds and peer closely at them with a magnifying glass while keeping a tally...
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SfS,
Can you confirm that this is what we need to buy, and that the cost inc. the count is only £9.98.
https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/worm-count-kit-p-2242.html (https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/worm-count-kit-p-2242.html)
I would expect the pots to be very small, but can I mix several samples in to get an average accross say 3 sows, or is it "one pot - one poo"?
and how fast do you get the results?
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Hi Oaklands,
Yes the price quoted is the price for Everything (including Vat) - there is just a small charge on top to post the kits out (this is calculated and shown at checkout) there are no hidden extras.
the pots are rectangular, approx 3 x 2 x 1 cm - Dont need tons of poo as the count is done on a small amount then converted to Eggs per Gramme of sample.
Mix the poo by all means to get an average, bearing in mind that this may give a false high or false low reading if the samples are from seperate pens or paddocks.
Results are taking around about 3 - 5 days from posting the samples - some are quicker.
Or you could do it through your vet, chances are it would cost more though ;D
Thanks
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thanks for the info, about to order !!
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yes on a sheep. it was too late for her. we had wormed and everything so yes its very useful. but its quite expensive via the vet. but not as much as killing your animal.
i thought if you wormed the pigs on arrival and they were due for slaughter they should be reasonably clean.
however was this testing just for thread worms or all nemitodes.
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This is all really interesting. I regularly worm my breeding pigs and I ensure that all weaners are wormed before they leave me for new homes but I have never thought to carry out a worm count.
Roughly how much are these worm count kits?
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This is all really interesting. I regularly worm my breeding pigs and I ensure that all weaners are wormed before they leave me for new homes but I have never thought to carry out a worm count.
Roughly how much are these worm count kits?
£9.98, plus £2.39 royal mail delivery for 1 kit.
https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/worm-count-kit-p-2242.html (https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/worm-count-kit-p-2242.html)
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yes on a sheep. it was too late for her. we had wormed and everything so yes its very useful. but its quite expensive via the vet. but not as much as killing your animal.
i thought if you wormed the pigs on arrival and they were due for slaughter they should be reasonably clean.
however was this testing just for thread worms or all nemitodes.
The count looks for and can detect the following:
Sheep & cattle:
Trichuris Ovis
Capillaria sp.
Strongyloides papillosus
Monieza
Dicrocelium lanceatum
Fasciola hepatica
Paramphistomum cervi
Toxocara vitulorum
Nematodirus
Bunostomum
Trichostrongulus cooperia
Haemonchus contortus
Oesophagostomium
Chabertia Ovina
Ostertagia
Dictyocaulus viviparus
Dictyocaulus filaria
Protostrongylus
Muellerius capillaris
Pigs
Trichuris suis (Whipworm)
Stronyloides (Threadworm)
Metastrongylus elongatus (Lungworm)
physocephalus sexalatus (Thick Stomach Worm)
Macracanthorhynchus hirudinaceus (Thorny Headed Worm)
Ascaris suum (Large White Worm)
Globocephalus urosubulatus
Hyostrongylus rubidus (Red Stomach Worm)
Oesophagostomum dentatum (Nodular Worm)
Stephanurus dentatus (Kidney Worm)
Trichinella spiralis (Muscle Worm)
Thanks
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whats the best time for doing it. hopefully they are due to lamb soon. will this give a false count. does it work for horses too.
i think i may buy a few is the postage per pot or as a group.
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Hi Paul,
I dont see why it would give a false count, if worms are active and laying eggs it will show.
Postage is calculated on weight, so a multiple buy would add a little more to the postage.
The lab specialises in Horses and has recently started to include livestock - its the same kit for all.
However they cant do cats and dogs.
Thanks
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But if you don't have enough land for rotating your pigs - you'd have to get rid of them? :-( We definitly don't have more available than what we have now and another half a field we are going to set up for pigs. But not 5 years worth of rotation!! :-/
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Hi Leri,
Then it may be a case of speaking with your vet and devising a regular worming and egg count programme that keeps the worm levels within acceptable limits.
As your land has not been used for pigs before then it probably stands to reason that the worms were in the original stock when purchased - so the new field should be "Clean"
May also be an idea to clear out the dung area on a very regular basis anddispose of the dung - this will help prevent the direct re-infection by nosing through the dung.
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thats a nasty little worm.
http://www.thepigsite.com/pighealth/article/422/thread-worm-strongyloides-ransomi (http://www.thepigsite.com/pighealth/article/422/thread-worm-strongyloides-ransomi)
if you have them then you do need to get the vet involved.
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I am very excited because I've just got my worm count results (thanks SFS) and one sample submitted for each species (sheep, goat and chicken) the worm count is less than 50.
The question is, do I continue worming as I have done in the past (Levacide in spring and autumn, and flubenvet for chickens) or not bother at all?
My concern with the low worm count is that I asked someone to post them for me and if it missed that days post when they were produced would the worms have been killed off?
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Hi Cinderhills,
Your worm count was very very good - in fact the lab couldnt spot any eggs !
No - by missing the post nothing would have been affected - as the count looks for worm eggs and not actual worms.
You can either continue worming as you are doing, or schedule in regular worm counts - no point buying and administering wormers if you dont need them.
Thanks
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Thanks for your help SFS. I'll have a think on what to do.
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What really surprises me, is that this thread has not generated more posts and less than 200 views to date.
Is it a case, as Lillian said above, of people burying their heads in the ground?
Have any pig / sheep readers of this post actually thought to themselves "I might have a problem as well" and sought out a worm count from their Vet / Farm Supplies or Us? If so it would be interesting to know how many have.
Thanks
Hi SFS,
I purchased my weaners-well they are now 12 weeks of age,I was advised that they were wormed already and I do not need to check them again for 12 weeks? Please can you confirm when would be best,I shall be buying a test kit as a matter of precaution!
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Hi Supplies For Smallholders.
I posted a question this week about preventing and testing pigs for liver fluke. I emailed my vet but am still awaiting a reply.
Just out of interest though- why do the home testing kits not test for liver fluke in pigs?
Thanks, Joanne
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Leghorn, I am in the same position as you and am definitely going to get one of these kits just to be on the safe side. As someone mentioned before, I think its better to know in order that they can be treated accordingly. Defo gonna get the count done.
Melanie x
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Hi,
Sorry for the delay in responding, we have been closed for a few days to do a stock take..
On the subject of Liver Fluke - The test looks for worm eggs in the sample, so the worms would need to be at a mature egg laying stage of their life cycle for the test to actually see any eggs (this is the same for any worm type in an egg count test) - a good source of info on Fluke is here : http://www.sac.ac.uk/mainrep/pdfs/tn557liverfluke.pdf (http://www.sac.ac.uk/mainrep/pdfs/tn557liverfluke.pdf)
For checking for liver fluke in pigs - please make a note on the form that you would like this to be done, as the fluke eggs are slightly heavier and a different solution is used in the lab when mixing the sample prior to examining.
For Leghorn: That is a hard question to answer, as I don't know what was used to worm the weaners or if the correct dose was given to each one, or if you have worms already on the land. Personally I would say carry out a worm count or re-worm them if you prefer just to worm for the sake of it at around 4 - 5 months of age. But obviously any worming programme should be discussed with your vet.
Thanks
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One other thing, and I don't know if this is based on fact or just an "Old Wifes Tale", is that grazing geese or ducks on the land can dramatically reduce the liver fluke burdon of pastures - anyone else heard this ?
Thanks
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One other thing, and I don't know if this is based on fact or just an "Old Wifes Tale", is that grazing geese or ducks on the land can dramatically reduce the liver fluke burdon of pastures - anyone else heard this ?
I certainly was told that ducks would do so - presumeably because they eat the snails which are the host for the other half of the fluke's lifecycle. At the time I was on a sheep farm of over 1000 acres of moorland, so short of switching to duck farming in toto we decided to carry on dosing for fluke and just have a few Muscovies for fun (and eggs and meat for the house.) :D
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Hello. Not been around for ages! Yes I heard ducks keep things down too. Hubby not keen on ducks idea though!