The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Declan on January 15, 2011, 03:34:24 pm
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I have just taken possession of 2 dogs- cocker spaniels. They are in bad enough shape- lively enough-but very skinny. How can I put a little more weight on them quite quickly.
I know with my own two dogs, also cockers, they look quite lean all the time as they are so active and the vet thinks this is normal for such active dogs. If I use my ordinary Proplan dried dog food (at nearly £50 per bag for 15kg i might add) i am worried that I won't get these two new dogs to put on weight quickly enough.
Please help as I am beside myself with worry.
Declan
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little and often is the key.
we had to build up our rescued dog.. and found she would eat whenever food was put in front of her!
and if you let them put on weight too quickly, then they may become over weight & have to lose it again. let them build up muscle tone too ...
how many meals a day do your others get?
and can you separate the new ones to give them an extra small meal during the day?
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Get frozen blocks of tripe from your local pet store - maybe Pets at home might have it. If you feed them a kibble they won't put weight on unless you were to give them twice what it says on the bag, and that's going to be blooming expensive. You can also give them the foods that make us fat - bread and butter, biscuits etc
I agree about not putting weight on them too quickly but if they are underweight anyway it'll be a while before that happens. If I have one that is getting a bit lean and want to fatten them up I just give them two titbits/treats when the others get one.
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Why do it so fast? Build it up a little at a time. Only give a maximum of 25% more than the recommended amount for the size that they SHOULD be. Not what they are. Personally I would only feed the recommended amount and no more.
If you give 'em too much, they'll just crap it out anyway.
They've survived this long and if they're not puppies, they should be ok.
Good luck :)
Ian
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We took on an abandoned and neglected English Springer from the Blue Cross and he proceeded to turn into a toast rack when he started getting the exercise he wanted. The vet suggested Hills Advanced Fitness and we got some meat back on him. Now he's as frantic as before but he's back on a larger amount of a more normally priced food. He maintains a good weight now but eats a great deal more than our elderly collie cross who is much heavier.
Working spaniels are rather wiry and need plenty of food. And it's protein they want not fat.
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These are Cocker Spaniels - perhaps they aren't working type, they may be show/pet type in which case they won't be wiry. The show/pet type is sturdy, well ribbed and compact, whereas the working type is longer cast and not so cobby. A show one can look fat when in fact it just has a well rounded rib cage. However, everything that has been said is correct - put on weight slowly till they reach the standard weight for their age. Their height should be approximately 38-41 cms and weight approximately 13-14.5 kgs
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Tripe won't do any good, neither will bread or biscuits. Try the cheap chicken thighs from supermarket and feed raw, one a day, in addition to their normal meal. High in fat and protein and excellent for their teeth. You can cut down to one every second day if they get heavy but they most probably won't. I give my terriers one or two thighs as a meal maybe twice a week, they seem to enjoy the change and do well on it.
Stevie
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Tripe won't do any good, neither will bread or biscuits. Try the cheap chicken thighs from supermarket and feed raw, one a day, in addition to their normal meal. High in fat and protein and excellent for their teeth. You can cut down to one every second day if they get heavy but they most probably won't. I give my terriers one or two thighs as a meal maybe twice a week, they seem to enjoy the change and do well on it.
Stevie
Sorry,but you're wrong. I have used tripe on a number of occasions to put weight/body on dogs - when i have a bitch in season for example. It works every time. I'm not saying the raw chicken wings won't work too though, and probably more readily available.
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I have taken in dogs so starved they have been on drugs to keep their guts lubricated! I find back to good old fashioned ways is the best a little rice pudding, tripe, plain nutricious foods. Adding weetabix with Chappie a good one. Yes Chappie good wholesome feather and bone cheap crap basic food. I worked for animal welfare before there was even kitten food! never mind Science diets.Plain wholesome foods little and often is the answer.
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I agree with hermit; As long as they're in good spirits I wouldn't worry about trying to fatten them up quickly; they'll gain condition naturally.
When I got Jess(GSD) she was very thin and scrubby looking with bald patches; I weighed her after I'd had her a month so I don't know what her initial weight was, but between the 1st weighing and the 2nd (another month later) she went from 28Kg to 32Kg so she must have been thin.
I fed her some tinned food (one small tin) and 3-4 chicken wings per day ('cos they're cheap - only feed wings if your dog chews it's food properly - small bones) and as much dry biscuit dog food as she wanted. I reasoned that if she was leaving the dried food then I was feeding her enough.
After I'd had her 3 months people were complimenting her on her condition.
I still feed her the same way and she floats around 32-34Kg.
mab
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Tripe won't do any good, neither will bread or biscuits. Try the cheap chicken thighs from supermarket and feed raw, one a day, in addition to their normal meal. High in fat and protein and excellent for their teeth. You can cut down to one every second day if they get heavy but they most probably won't. I give my terriers one or two thighs as a meal maybe twice a week, they seem to enjoy the change and do well on it.
Stevie
Sorry,but you're wrong. I have used tripe on a number of occasions to put weight/body on dogs - when i have a bitch in season for example. It works every time. I'm not saying the raw chicken wings won't work too though, and probably more readily available.
Nutritionally, tripe doesn't offer much, it will provide bulk by way of calories, but anything will do that. Dogs need meat to thrive. I'll agree do disagree ;D ;D
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Tripe won't do any good, neither will bread or biscuits. Try the cheap chicken thighs from supermarket and feed raw, one a day, in addition to their normal meal. High in fat and protein and excellent for their teeth. You can cut down to one every second day if they get heavy but they most probably won't. I give my terriers one or two thighs as a meal maybe twice a week, they seem to enjoy the change and do well on it.
Stevie
Sorry,but you're wrong. I have used tripe on a number of occasions to put weight/body on dogs - when i have a bitch in season for example. It works every time. I'm not saying the raw chicken wings won't work too though, and probably more readily available.
Nutritionally, tripe doesn't offer much, it will provide bulk by way of calories, but anything will do that. Dogs need meat to thrive. I'll agree do disagree ;D ;D
I don't know where you get your info from. Tripe is very high in protein and can be used as a complete food. It is so high in protein in fact it shouldn't be mixed with other complete mixes. We are talking about black tripe here, the one sold in pet shops. David Hancock fed only tripe to his working Lurchers.
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tripe will do them the world of good, the smell encourages them to eat, its gentle on the digestive system, and its got all the nutrients a dog needs, i swear by it for my bitch with a digestive problem :wave:
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Tripe won't do any good, neither will bread or biscuits. Try the cheap chicken thighs from supermarket and feed raw, one a day, in addition to their normal meal. High in fat and protein and excellent for their teeth. You can cut down to one every second day if they get heavy but they most probably won't. I give my terriers one or two thighs as a meal maybe twice a week, they seem to enjoy the change and do well on it.
Stevie
Sorry,but you're wrong. I have used tripe on a number of occasions to put weight/body on dogs - when i have a bitch in season for example. It works every time. I'm not saying the raw chicken wings won't work too though, and probably more readily available.
Nutritionally, tripe doesn't offer much, it will provide bulk by way of calories, but anything will do that. Dogs need meat to thrive. I'll agree do disagree ;D ;D
I don't know where you get your info from. Tripe is very high in protein and can be used as a complete food. It is so high in protein in fact it shouldn't be mixed with other complete mixes. We are talking about black tripe here, the one sold in pet shops. David Hancock fed only tripe to his working Lurchers.
Quote:
In an analysis of a sample of green tripe by a Woodson-Tenant Lab in Atlanta,
... of the proteins & amino acids in raw meat, thus destroying much of it's
nutritional value. ... Protein 15.82% Ash 1.23% Phosphorous 0.14% Calcium 0.12%
...
15.8% protien is not enough for a dog to thrive on, especially a working dog.
I also know of Mr Hancock and his lurchers, I imagine he had a cheap supply of tripe, that would be the only reason he fed the dogs on it...
Stevie
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Your information seems very similar to that of Wikipedia. ;)
Conflicting information here then, from a Dog food website.
Why is Tripe A Superfood for Dogs?
Tripe is very healthy for your dog as it is rich in many natural nutrients such as omega 3 & 6 fatty acids, enzymes and probiotics which are essential for your dog's wellbeing. Also present within the tripe are naturally occurring gastric juices and amino acids from the animals digestive process. Gastric juices are an excellent cleaner for your dog's teeth. Amino acids are necessary for proper muscular development.
It is also an excellent source of protein, and fibre and delivers near optimum calcium to phosphorus ratio which is essential for healthy bone and joint development.
Tripe can be classed as a "white meat" and has historically been fed to dogs with sensitive digestive tracts, or food allergies. There are many nutritional benefits in feeding your dog Tripe.
Tripe has a high bioavailability of many essential nutrients to keep your dog in peak condition. Benefits to the dog include noticeably better coats, more lustre and shine, healthy skin, richer colour etc. This is due to the presence of important and essential fatty acids like linoleic and linolenic acids. Tripe retains an "attractive" odour that dogs simply love and it is easily digestible it can be used as an appetite stimulator in cases where dogs refuse to eat their meals due to this high palatability and "attractive" odour to dogs.
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Wasn't wikipedia!
I still stand by the 15.8% protein not being enough for an active dog. I know lots of folk using BARF and none use tripe regularly.
I'm not surprised that's from a dog food site, reads like an advert; "naturally occuring gastric juices" !!!! we'd all be using it if it was that good!!
I'll leave it at that, hope I haven't offended anyone... ::) ::)
stevie
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Wasn't wikipedia!
I still stand by the 15.8% protein not being enough for an active dog. I know lots of folk using BARF and none use tripe regularly.
I'm not surprised that's from a dog food site, reads like an advert; "naturally occuring gastric juices" !!!! we'd all be using it if it was that good!!
I'll leave it at that, hope I haven't offended anyone... ::) ::)
stevie
http://www.truecarnivores.com/greentripe.shtml (http://www.truecarnivores.com/greentripe.shtml) Someones misquoting to try to make their point.
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It was a straight quote from a site, I would in no way misquote just to "make a point", my ego isn't that big.
As I said I'll leave it at that.
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BARF feeders shouldn't feed just tripe! The animal should have a mixture of:- meat, lites (heart, lungs, tripe etc) and bones. The proportions should replicate an animals make up (give or take)
That is to say, 75% meat to 25% bones. The meat can be broken down further to 75% meat (the kind that we would have) and 25% lites.
Personally I wouldn't mix BARF and complete and certainly wouldn't feed tins at all. But that's me.
Some previously spoilt dogs don't know how to eat BARF but tripe and it's distinctive smell usually brings 'em round ;D
Ian
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stevie D no offence taken, this is a forum so we can all add our own individual experiences and opinions, please dont you be offended, or feel you cant express a view :wave: :wave:
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I agree. I was only going on what I was told about 45 years ago by an old longstanding cocker breeder, and then used the stuff myself with success. But I didn't use it to exclusion of all else. Pax, Stevie D?
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:wave: :wave: :wave:
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:wave: :wave: :wave:
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a good quality puppy food is your best option. You want a high protein diet that is not bulked out to fill them up. Many dry dog food have bulked ingreedients aimed at making them feel full. You want maximum protein to weight ratio
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Be careful of over doing it on the protein. Alot of itchy dogs with problem skin are fed to much. Usually when someone feeds a complete meal and then adds "extras" to it like more meat to make it appetising. A friend who breeds wire fox terriers get weight on her dogs with weetabix, goats milk and honey in the morning and a bonio at bedtime.
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Our Mastiff has a tendancy to lose weight in the winter. I swear by Arden Grange for putting on weight. He also get "fatty treats" a couple fo times a week, whether that's meat juices poured on his food, those "sausage" treats that smell vile or pedigree jumbone's ... they're all just pretty much fat and it makes a big difference to his weight (aswell as wearing a little coat which my OH hates!!). :D
I presume they've been fully checked over and it's now just a case of feeding them up? Sorry if that seems obvious, just thought to check! :-[
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i am no expert but have nursed rescued weimaraners and gsds who were truly thin when we got them. A puppy milk (like you give to newborn pups) worked for the gsd it was mixed as per instructions and then fed along side his normal food. For the weimaraner we fed a 'junior' food with his normal rations so he was 1/3 junior and 2/3 normal. This worked a treat for him.
Hope this helps
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Be careful of over doing it on the protein. Alot of itchy dogs with problem skin are fed to much.
I have had this problem, itchy skin and split pads on too high a protein diet. My vet told me that excess protein will knock the dog's kidneys out earlier in its life than if you are moderate in the amount of protein you feed. Plus, and this is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine, I am absolutely convinced that, in dogs prone to being a bit hyper, excess protein in feed comes out in hyper behaviour.
Excess means more than needed - so that, for instance, a working collie that works on the hill needs a lot more protein than the identical collie that's a pet or does light work on a small holding.
I long ago discovered that any collie-type pet dog would do best on tinned Chappie and a plain terrier meal - probably around 11-12% protein overall. I maybe should add that all my collie-type pet dogs lived to 15 and over, and were fit and active up until near to the end.
I now have working collies - but still keep the protein in check in adults doing only light work.
The bee in my bonnet is the marketing of working feeds at pet owners - people are made to feel that they are not looking after their collie properly unless they feed a 'working dog' ration, but in fact you cannot give a pet dog enough exercise to use up all the energy and protein in such a ration. Sorry to rant - as I say, it's a bit of a hobby horse.
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you also need to check what source the protein is from ie meat rather than brown rice for example and also if omega that it is from fish rather than plants - had that from dog behaviourist we always feed about 18% meat protein with 7% fish oils in our dried food. and the vet prescribed the 'juniour' food ration in with adult rations to build up a poor condition dog. Would add our feed bill is massive as we feed an expensive brand (recommended by vet and behaviourist) but it is worth it in the end