The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: doganjo on January 08, 2011, 04:42:33 pm

Title: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 08, 2011, 04:42:33 pm: My neighbour and I live at the wrong side of the tracks obviously! We are the only two houses in Clackmannan that have had no water since 23rd December between 1,30 and 3,30 pm. How can I be so precise? ??? Because I had lunch around 1pm, including a cup of tea having run just enough from tap to kettle for one mug, then went out shopping, my neighbours were out before me but got back at 3,30 - the water was on when I left and off when they came back. Strange coincidence then that on my visit to have my hair done in the village my hairdresser told me that there was a burst water main pouring water down the hill, we looked out and it had been turned down but not stopped. To get to our two houses the water falls about 100 feet from the mains pipe, then has to go up about 10/15 feet to get over the railway bridge. I reckon if they turned the pressure down it wouldn't be able to get up that distance and it froze or just can't get over to us. Logic? Oh, no! Scottish Water don't know why we have had no water for three weeks, they think the pipes between their toby and our houses must be frozen - even though it happened in the middle of the day when the temperature was raised! I am dirty, my hair is dirty, my dogs are dirty, their beds are dirty, my bed is dirty, my dishes are dirty, their dishes are dirty, my loos are dirty. :-[ :-[ :-[ I had the embarrassing ignominy the other day of having to ask my daughter if I smell when she visited with my grandchildren. :-[ :-[
For God's sake don't any of you visit me for at least 4 weeks after the water comes back on - IF it ever does. ::) And don't anyone say anything about 3rd World countries. Yes, we have running water, but we also have systems that need it to function. It is what we are used to. Flushing loos, washing machines, dishwashers, showers, baths. Please, please can I have my 1st World life back! :'( :'(
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: faith0504 on January 08, 2011, 05:14:15 pm: oh god cant believe your still without water, what have scottish water said they are going to do????????? ???
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: little blue on January 08, 2011, 06:48:21 pm: grrrrr! on your behalf. as you say, so much for being 1st world....
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 08, 2011, 06:48:32 pm: Hmm, Scottish Water keep ringing me to ask if my water is back on, and to offer bottled water whenever I need it.............. so I guess they don't really know what is wrong. I have driven past the burst main every day for the last 5 days and although they have it cordoned off, the hole is full of water and there is never anyone there. But that said I think they are overwhelmed by the number of burst mains and houses with burst pipes so I feel I can't really blame them - they are trying to get everyone back online and they are always very pleasant and sympathetic.
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: knightquest on January 08, 2011, 08:36:20 pm: Sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope you get your water turned on as soon as possible. Don't be put off. Have a good moan and get your voice heard until they fix your problem. She who shouts loudest for longest usually gets her problem sorted much faster :) :)

Good luck

Ian
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: The Woodsiders on January 08, 2011, 08:44:26 pm: bet you really don`t smell that bad
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 08, 2011, 08:49:02 pm: Well, in answer to the question, Sarah did say - 'not that you'd notice' ??? Do you think she might be trying to protect my feelings? ;) ;D
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: Bright Raven on January 08, 2011, 09:42:14 pm: You smell lovely from here. :bouquet:
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 08, 2011, 09:50:12 pm: It's probably the Vanderbilt, or maybe the Oscar de la Renta, or maybe the EL Youth Dew - got all three for Christmas and Birthday. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: Rosemary on January 09, 2011, 11:46:01 am: When you can smell yourself, you know it's bad ;D

Try Riverbank Laundry in Alloa - excellent service and reasonable rates - I mean for yoru laundry, not for you ;D

Now have a mental picture of you spinning round in one of the big washers ;D
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 09, 2011, 03:54:03 pm: ;D ;D ;D ;D

My lovely son-in-law spent ages digging out our drive yesterday and it's covered in snow again. My next door neighbours have calor gas (thank goodness I'm on mains) and they are almost out of gas. The tanker arrived at lunchtime to refill their tank and got stuck - nearly took my fence down, so now they have no water, no drainage, and no heating - at least I am warm! Dirty, but warm. Same applies to my dogs and birds! And thank goodness for the snow - at least I can melt that for the animals and loos.
Duncan also took all the stinking dog beds away to the Tullybody launderette, so from tomorrow the dogs will have warm, clean beds. Scottish Water are being very attentive - had three calls from them today and two lots of bottled water, but nothing on stream as yet. An engineer just checked the main road and said there was enough pressure over there to lift the water 20 feet so I guess our pipe is frozen from the bridge. Hope they are right about warmer weather from Wednesday and rain! ::) ::) Just been watching Piers Corbyn on youtube that Gary posted - quoted from the link below
Quote
The fact is the UK VAT rise would not be necessary if politicians drop the failed ideology of man-made climate change. Rejection of the failed pseudo-science of CO2 manmade climate change would save the UK £18 billion per year – £5bn more than the VAT hike grab by the exchequer!

Read and discuss - http://www.weatheraction.com/docs/WANews11No1.pdf

Are we having a mini ice age or what?
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: robert waddell on January 09, 2011, 04:09:19 pm: surely if railtrack installed the bridge (it is their property) they have a responsibility to you and your neighbour for access and the water supplie now this is just my opinion but your house is not habitable poor access no water and no sanitation was it this way in winter before railtrack came on the scene i know you have problems with the coal trains there was an article in the herald just recently
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 09, 2011, 10:24:55 pm: Quote from: lillian waddell on January 09, 2011, 04:09:19 pm
surely if railtrack installed the bridge (it is their property) they have a responsibility to you and your neighbour for access and the water supplie now this is just my opinion but your house is not habitable poor access no water and no sanitation was it this way in winter before railtrack came on the scene i know you have problems with the coal trains there was an article in the herald just recently
The land on either side of the line was owned by a farmer who sold the land to the railway authorities and to a developer. The lane over the bridge has to be adopted by the Council for access problems to be alleviated and since there are only our two houses that is unlikely to happen. It is extreme to say our houses are not habitable, that is not so. In any case, because our houses were built after the railway line was put through, then we have less rights - the railway was discontinued in the 1960's and only re-opened in 2003. It is a very complicated legal issue and not anything like as simple as you would think. I have no problem with the coal trains at all. I do have a problem with them running at night but that is a totally separate issue, and is presently being discussed by the Parliament.

The issue of the water is frozen pipes (possibly at the toby point on the pavement) at the other side of the bridge. It is totally unrelated to the railway or council authorities responsibilities.
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: robert waddell on January 09, 2011, 11:06:47 pm: i was under the impresion your house was there before the railway was reintroduced
in the early 60s (when entire comunities had no water because of frozen pipes) the regulations were changed to prevent the same happening again .of hand i think the water pipes have to be2 1/2ft below the surface the drainage has similar requirements(building regulations) on that bassis that was why i said it was uninhabitable possible the wrong terminology (what conditions people endured fifty years ago is not acceptable now)if the predictions are right for harder winters to come your problems are going to get worse all to often developers cut corners and have seen this first hand it is unusual for Scottish water to make an error in installing there system having worked with them in the past also did you or the previous owner have the same problem last year
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 09, 2011, 11:45:25 pm: Quote from: lillian waddell on January 09, 2011, 11:06:47 pm
i was under the impresion your house was there before the railway was reintroduced
Yes, it was but that doesn't change the fact that the pipes are frozen and until the weather changes - hopefully this week - then I will be without water. Scottish Water don't have a magic wand unfortunately ;) ;D But my house wasn't here when the railway was first built and it was never officially closed down, it only went into disuse which is a different legal term.
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: Sandy on January 10, 2011, 12:38:11 am: Do you know Anne, whoever built that house and put the pipe line in is to blame, I wonder if the previouse owners had cuts, maybe not as its been soooooooo cold lately. We know a builder who looked at the land next to you years ago and he mentioned all the stuff you have problems with, drainage, flooding, acsess etc etc. What I am saying is, if he knew, then the previouse owners must have known. I think you need your mains sorting out as that railyway bridge is a steep slope to get up and the pipes must be fairly near the surface......I would be fumeing too.....you should get some sort of compensation, it will make you ill!!!
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: robert waddell on January 10, 2011, 09:38:31 am: what sandy is saying is perfectly true and the compensation route is distinct possibility
first if the house was constructed before the line was recommissioned how was access gained to the two property's
this may not apply since it was not a new build before a new build property can be legally occupied the building control officer inspects all aspects of your house/extension to ensure it complies with the building regulations you can still live in it without this legal requirement (i have heard of this occurring) but you will not get a mortgage/loan against the property and selling wise it is worth diddly squat
now if sandy is familiar with the property(as appears) you have a very good chance of getting recompense(it is the same as selling knowing that there are faults or developments going to happen without declaring this to the seller also the surveyor that you employed and the mortgage company used and the solicitors involved
none of what i have written helps in getting your water back on but i think is relevant and part of the problem
with the drainage that is the last major part of housebuilding/renovation money has run out corners are cut inefficient work lack of knowledge smaller systems installed AND MOST OF ALL SOAKAWAYS DO NOT WORK unless it is sandy soil that they are installed correctly in(there is a poster on here that will disagre but that is life) all problems are doable with a bit of thought money and tenacity don't think i am trying to dishearten you some times a fresh approach is required to eliminate your troubles
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: Sandy on January 10, 2011, 10:32:25 am: I never really looked at that bridge but the mains must go over with it so its exposed on both sides, even if its 2ft 6 down it maybe less than 2ft 6" up!!!! ;) Just imajine families staying with you, a health problem, no wonder the water board are being so nice, they know how bad it could be. Not only that, if you were a frail old lady (I know your not) with carers comming in, Social Services would have tried to get you temp accomadation. I also think you should have compensation for washing your clothing and as well, a free pass to the leisure center.
When your water comes back on you will be all shrivelled up due to staying in the bath for hours, washing EVERYTHING and cleaning all your floors
;)
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 10, 2011, 01:45:51 pm: Thank you all for your concern but in the main you are incorrect on a number of points. I have explained these below for the benefit of others who may find themselves in the same position in the future, but I do appreciate you all thinking of ways to alleviate my situation. So thank you again. :bouquet: :-*

No compensation can be payable - I have had no actual loss financially, nor any physical or mental hurt or real anguish. Just some inconvenience and I don't think that can be compensated for. Especially since there is no actual blame. There is case law in place which I have examined (I am a retired accountant and have had some legal training over the years), but Valr may correct me if she sees this.

Lack of water and drainage won't make me ill.

The house was built after the original line was installed, but before the recent reopening, the railway bridge has been there since before any houses were built on either side because it was a farm, the same applies to the bypass, it cut through the farm lands.

No-one could have foreseen the extreme low temperatures we are having just now - the pipes and the whole building comply with the building standards. No house in Scotland can be built and occupied without doing so. I know because I have built a house. (So I am not just a silly old female pensioner! ;D ;D ) I project managed the build of my last house myself, and actually physically put the drains in myself with the help of the digger and driver, and my Building Inspector! ::)

A temporary habitation certificate can be granted so that an owner may live in a house before completion but it is extremely rigorously controlled and mortgages are available prior to completion certificates being granted. However, this does not apply since my home is 20 years old. There were no previous water supply issues, although there were drainage ones but not freezing pipes. Both water and drainage freezing are as a result of the cold weather. The drainage system does NOT involve a soakaway, it is pumped to teh main drain and I ahve recently installed a brand new submersible.

I know the builder who built my current house and have discussed ALL the problems he had to overcome, AND how he dealt with them. There were no cost cutting exercises involved. It is no-one's fault except God if there is such a thing, but that's another issue I have contention with!

However, the drainage pipes go up a steep bank to the mains and the soil may have eroded so we may be able to sort that. He and my son-in-law both suggested inserting heating worms, so that is another possibility to investigate.

Scottish Water sent an engineer out yesterday, he checked the pressure at the other side of the bridge and it is 4 bar (enough for a 20 foot spout of water I think), so teh burst main in the village is no longer affecting us down here, whether it is fixed or not. They have packed it to keep the pressure high.

So don't worry everyone, I'll be fine when teh sun starts to shine! ;D ;D ;D
So as you can see, I have all the facts - but that doesn't stop me from wanting to have a rant about it, and all I need do is be patient and wait for warmer weather. ::) Patience is not really part of my make up I'm afraid :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: ballingall on January 10, 2011, 09:50:35 pm: I'm sure you will survive Annie, but I guess it's not the convenience living we're all used to now.

Not wanting to hijack your thread (but I am going to mention something else but not relevant as you have explained!). Alex's parent's had no water for 3 weeks last January due to the pipe from the main to their house freezing. As Alex's mum discovered it was also a lead pipe, they personally took the expense of getting it dug up, relaid (deeper) and redid their drive too. So, come this Christmas just past- they were the only house out of their surrounding neighbours with running water. None of their neighbours bothered to spend the money to do something similar, and they all struggled because of it.

Beth
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 10, 2011, 10:58:11 pm: If I had lead piping I might think of doing that but the house is only about 20 years old and I know the builder personally - he's a friend of my cousin. So I know there were no issues at the time of building. If I were to build another house he's the first person I'd ask to build it for me - I have a lot of respect for and confidence in him. It's just a matter of sitting it out till they mend the burst main up in the village and the ice gets pushed through.
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: RUSTYME on January 11, 2011, 12:53:02 pm: Annie , why don't you ask the water company to leave you a full bowser till your supply returns . They do have them , and they won't be using all of them right at this moment surely ? ,or is it still really cold up there ... .
We are about 7-10+ degrees here now , and only down to about 3 or 4+ at night ...just a thought !!!

cheers

Russ
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 11, 2011, 12:57:59 pm: To be honest, Russ, the 2 litre bottles are probably easier for me to handle. A bowser would need piping or buckets to be trailed all over the place. And officially they only supply water to keep ME alive - not any of the animals, and not to flush loos, wash dishes, wash clothes. But what they don't hear about won't worry them and I'll just let them think I drink 40 litres a day ;D ;D It's still cold here today, but there was a big thaw overnight and a good bit of the snow has gone although there's still a lot on the ground. Probably about 2 to 3 degrees plus I should think.
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: RUSTYME on January 11, 2011, 01:03:45 pm: No probs Annie,
I live in a caravan and haven't had running water for over 15 years now , so I am quite used to collecting it in 20 litre containers . I am totally used to going careful with water now , and it is easy to get by this way once you get used to it .
Anyway mate , hope it all thaws for you soon , and you get back to norm again !!!

cheers

Russ
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: sheila on January 11, 2011, 02:46:17 pm: oh dear Annie. I feel so sorry for you but we brits are made of sterner stuff, you will manage and you will get through it. however do rant away if you feel like it and it helps you feel better. We the readers can take it!
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 11, 2011, 08:23:53 pm: Thanks, everyone. Scottish Water are being very helpful - but there's nothing they can do. The pipework over the railway bridge is probably very exposed and we had minus 16 in the week before Christmas! So maybe the pipes are just nae weel anuff happit ;D
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: Sandy on January 11, 2011, 08:26:40 pm: I wonder when they are going to dam this river up here? Not sure where its all going but some people on the other side have had sandbags, mind you, stuff has frozen again and its slippy around here!! and unfortunaltely, more on the way >:( >:(
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 11, 2011, 08:33:37 pm: It's cold tonight, according to the Scottish Water engineer who just called, there's a big thaw forecast for tomorrow and Thursday - around 9 plus I believe, but I hae ma doots. http://uk.weather.com/weather/10day-Alloa-FK10
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: RUSTYME on January 11, 2011, 09:15:18 pm: there is a huge low on the way in from the south west . Meant to hit tonight . Lots and lots of rain , but very warm ...it isn't cold here now . I was outside with the dogs just now, just in a t shirt ....Temp meant to be about 12 + during the day and about 5-8+ at night for the next few days .....oh yes please .....just no floating cars !!! ::) ::)

cheers

Russ
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 11, 2011, 09:28:56 pm: Agreed, don't want what the Ozzies have - puts my predicament in perspective really!
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: Sandy on January 12, 2011, 09:52:15 am: Forgot where you are Russ but its not warm here, my hands are freezing after feeding the animals, although it is NOT freezing there was a tiny bit of snow last night thankfuly!!!!!
Title: Re: Rant - letting off steam with no water!!
Post by: doganjo on January 12, 2011, 12:09:27 pm: Should be starting to thaw soon, Sandy - IF the forecast is right. But, yes, it's still quite cold here.