The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Bees & Beekeeping => Topic started by: OhLaLa on January 05, 2011, 05:31:13 pm
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Ok chaps, if any of you keep or intend to keep bees and have a query, post here and I will try to help you. We need to take care of all our bees.
:bee:
'There are as many beekeeping opinions as there are beekeepers'
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thinking of buying a beehaus from omlet.
whats your opinion of it as a hive? :bee: :bee:
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I've not heard many good reviews myself of the beehaus.
mainly as it isnt all that strong if they make a good weight of honey stores - the lags buckled on the original ones... though they may have made improvements!
Compare the prices to, say, Thornes... before commiting ;)
ohlala, thankyou. there will be lots of questions! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that "my girls" have survived the super-cold winter. I am not a beekeeper yet - only had them since last summer so all the tough stuff to come....
;)
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Sounds great, i got my first hive this year and have been terrified that my money had gone to waste with the winter being so bad. Had a quick peak yesterday and they look great, they are all on one side snuggled up and warm. Should i be feeding them still or do i not bother now?
Thanks Rob. ;D
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It's not a hive I have personally tried. All my kit has been bought over many years, originally based around Nationals and then Commercials. I also have a few WBC's. My untested opinion is that they are expensive (and a bit of a novelty). As for the bending down aspect, my hives are all on stands, and when the supers are added they get higher anyhow. I like my breathable wooden hives.
I found this comparison review written by a Surrey beekeeper who tried out a beehaus for a while:
http://www.surreybeekeeper.co.uk/2010/08/02/an-omlet-beehaus-or-a-traditional-national-beehive-a-review/
and for those who are new to the beehaus hive:
http://www.omlet.co.uk/products_services/?view=Beehaus&about=Hives%2520Explained
and
http://www.omlet.co.uk/products_services/products_services.php?cat=Beehaus&subcat=The+Beehaus
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We bought a nucleus in 2009 which started off well but we lost them that winter. It was a real disappointment especially as they were very good tempered. We tried to get another lot in 2010 but were told the volcanic ash delayed the transport of queens and then it became too late. I can't wait for some more, the hive looks sad standing empty, but as we are going to be away for 6 months this year have decided to put it on hold. When we return home and get our smallholding bees will certainly be on our list.
Sally
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next year is the year iv planned to think about starting with bees, so will be reading what u all write!
before then, i have to finish the fencing (taking forever!!), last year we planted loads of wild flowers, which coincided with our first crop of plums, (after 6 years of nothing). also need to plant wild flowers in all our orchards before we get any bees. i know the site where im gona keep them so hope it b reality and not just a dream in a couple of years time. we planted alot of phaecelia,borage etc last year and had enormous amounts of bumble bees. not sure if that will regrow this year on its own.
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Opened my three hives at the weekend to give some fondant. Live bees in three hives !!
First winter so very nervous
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Hello
I am hoping to get Bees this year, can you recommend a good book that I can get from the library?
Sarah
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Bees at the Bottom of the Garden. Very user friendly and solid information
but DON'T buy anything without contacting your local beekeeping association. Look for secretary at the BBKA website. Beekeepng is not straightforward, the bees haven't read the book and you need friends with experience. Our local assoc runs beginners courses based around a BBKA syllabus and then provides a mentoring service.
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Agreed, 'Bees at the Bottom of the Garden' is a very good beginners book. Easy to follow and not too complicated, it's one of the first books I bought (I have it in front of me now). It's by Alan Campion (ISBN: 0-7136-2433-7).
I recommend anyone starting out with bees to contact their local beekeeping association. They give lots of advice, you will be able to get some hands on practice before you get your own bees, and you will have a much better idea of what you are looking for/at.
With regard to feeding at this time of year, it depends on how much stores the bees have left. I don't know where you are or what forage you have around you, but if you get a warmer sunny day take a quick look, if stores are low pop a feeder in there. I feed sugar syrup, but that's because it's what I always have available.
:bee:
'Once a beekeeper, always a beekeeper'
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whats ways can u improve ur farm before the bees arrive? im a few years away yet.
i would like to get more gorse to grow in the right places(ie hedge) but never managed to transplant it, i love the smell. but had to cut alot back as growing in wrong place.
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whats ways can u improve ur farm before the bees arrive?
Look after the wildlife and bees that already visit. Try not to use chemicals, keep as much grass and hedgerow as uncut as possible to let the clover grow and the blossom bloom. Plant meadowflower seed and fruit trees.
And remember that any mature ivy you might have clambering up walls is a good source of late forage - and a bird bath offers a handy place for a bee to take water from.
In the meantime, you can also buy little nest kits that encourage solitary bees to take up home in them.
:)
:bee:
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sycamore or plain trees are also good either for wild bees or hive bees lime/cherry in fact anything that flowers
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im sure i saw an advert for correspondance bee keeping course - has anyone tried it - name escapes me at moment.
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The BBKA produce course material, and there are loads of books. My wife has all of them but she points out that it's really hard to turn the pages and read when wearing a bee-suit and gloves. And her bees never read the same book.
By all means learn all the theory but there's a load of practical stuff for which you can't beat phoning a friend. Our local association not only runs the courses but offers mentoring for those that persist.
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We're hoping to start our bee-keeping adventure this year ;D
A question on hive positioning:
Our field is south facing and on the side of a hill. Our cottage is in the bottom south-east corner, and I was thinking of locating the hive at the opposite top corner, ie NW. We are in Cornwall, about 4 miles as the crow flies from the north and south coasts. The top of the field is much more exposed than the bottom - as an example the hedging plants around the field were all planted at the same time and the ones at the top of the field are about 4 ft tall, while the ones at the bottom of the field are 7ft. Will the top of the field be too exposed for the bees? I was going to position the hive in the lee of the hedge but would this be sufficient?
We will be hoping to join a bee keeping association in our area :)
Thanks
Tish
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bees can make a home in some remarkably exposed locations - Orkney for example - but siting one in the teeth of southerly gales would not be ideal. The hedge will be a help but how dense is it? A deciduous hedge may not provide much winter shelter for several years after planting, if ever. You know your own site best. If in doubt, pick a reasonably fine day, go up there in shirt sleeves and stand on the proposed hive position for half an hour. If you're uncomfortable, the bees will be too. Now try again on a less fine day and see what you think.
If the site you choose does prove unfavourable, it is possible to move the hive, but only by a metre at a time during summer which is a bit of a pain. Easier to do in winter if you need to make a wholesale move. Or move it several miles away and then back again to the new site, but this is A Level stuff.
Bear in mind also that beekeeping does involve hauling around a fair amount of heavy woodwork, hopefully laden with heavy honey! If your hive is located at any distance uphill from your storage point, you will quickly come to regret it. I speak as one who thought that a 200 yard wheelbarrow push across paddocks would be no problem.
Also, make sure you have sufficient, level space for your apiary. You will need to accommodate at least two hives and have space to work round them comfortably.
Glad to see you plan to join your nearest BKA. Members will have a more detailed understanding of local conditions and strains of bees. Drink at the fount of wisdom.
Good luck!
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Opened my three hives at the weekend to give some fondant. Live bees in three hives !!
First winter so very nervous
You sound surprised - there are SUPPOSED to be live bees in the hive over winter y'know:) Don't be nervous, you've done exactly the right thing. I did the same on Weds - just catching an hour or two of mild, dry weather between frost and deluge! The next of these will be dedicated to pruning the orchard - if the sheep don't spring any interesting surprises on us!
Good luck with your bees next season.
(waterhouse's OH)
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so whats the theory for siting a hive - out of wind? in/out of sun? obviously not to be a nuisance, do they need to be close to the flowers etc or do they not travel to find food.
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OH is going to get herself an ID for this forum and I'm but a humble labourer when it comes to bees but they do range over some miles so the unless you want to make something like heather honey you don't need to take them to the crop. Bees are insects and their activity level depends on temperature, so unless you're in one of the UK's many sun-baked piazzas it's best to give them shelter, especially during winter when the number of bees is vastly reduced anyway.
The bees remember precisely where they came from which is why you can't move the hive except by a metre or some kilometres. Bees from adjacent hives don't get lost. And you want a level area to work on with the hive raised a bit so you don't bend all the time. Pave it if it might get muddy.
I was scared stiff of bees and wasn't in favour of OH getting them but I've come to enjoy them and I'm not worried any more. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone but we'd never have got started without the help from our association. It's often just having someone to call, though OH gets the calls now.
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Can you keep bees with horses in the adjoining fields, and chickens & ducks in the same garden ?
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Yes. Our two hives and the Dartington Long Deep live in the orchard with the chickens and with horses and sheep in the adjacent paddocks.
Two are close to the house and garden so we put a 2m high bamboo fence around them so that they fly higher earlier. People are happier if they're not too obvious in the garden
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Can you keep bees with horses in the adjoining fields, and chickens & ducks in the same garden ?
I'd think this one through. If the horses are literally grazing over the fence from the hives then don't be surprised if they receive the odd sting. The bees won't usually bother the horses unless they are of a bad tempered brood or the horses get in the way of their flight path - or nose a bit too close for the bees liking.
Chickens and ducks in the bee garden: Depends. How large an area? I've never put them in the same area as ducks are mucky creatures and the area will be boggy with duck poo in no time. Slipping on duck muck with full supers or even just whilst checking the hives is no fun. Chickens might peck at the bees and eat them, after all, other birds find them a tasty morsel - and I just don't want anything round my feet (or my hives) whilst I am trying to work.
For my hives, I fence off a 'bee garden' area. This prevents the dogs, foxes, deer, wild boars (yes we have those too) and the like from taking to much of an interest and the possibility of the hives being knocked over. I place the hives on a concrete slab to keep the grass short in front of the entrances, and just try to keep the area generally tidy and the grass short. They don't care if I whizz by on the lawnmower.
Position your hives so the entrances are facing a high hedge or something tall so when they leave the hive they have to fly up and over the obstacle. This takes them high into the air and therefore above human/horse height (however, bees will do what they want and if they want to take a left or right turn on exit and fly in/out at waist height they will do exactly that). :bee:
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so whats the theory for siting a hive - out of wind? in/out of sun? obviously not to be a nuisance, do they need to be close to the flowers etc or do they not travel to find food.
Unfortunately, quite often beehives are positioned under a collection of trees where it is dark and damp so try to avoid that if you can. Think of somewhere you'd like to sit - out of direct sun, not cold and wet, not too breezy and you should be fine. Don't place them near a road/footpath or public right of way. Bees will fly off to forage so putting them in a flower garden looks pretty but isn't essential. Water is often overlooked, they will take water from a pond (providing it has an area adjacent on which they can land), or from a birdbath etc.
:bee:
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I should have mentioned that we separate the hives from the chickens using sheep hurdles. They love drone brood etc btw.
We haven't noticed any stinging problems with our horses despite finding three underground wasp nests in the paddocks last year.
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my site iv planned on using is between 2 long strips of fir woodland 20 metres apart, so quite sheltered but still has sunlight. also il be outa sight of neighbours whilst wearing the beekeepers fashion! lol ;D :D pasture is not far away, orchards a bit further, but hoping to plant more wild flowers in grassland etc. never thought about water at all, will have to think about that one. how close does that have to be?
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never thought about water at all, will have to think about that one. how close does that have to be?
Appx 5 mile radius of the hives, but obviously if you can help them out a bit in this regard so much the better, remember to take into account the seasons and draught too. Bees will take rainwater off leaves, dustbin lids - in fact anything they can, but if making a dedicated 'water garden' the water needs a gentle slope so they can land, or something floating on the water which they can use to stand on. Water in deep pots with nowhere for the bees to land = drowned bees.
Take a look here 'Creating a Honeybee Water Garden':
http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/beepond.html
:bee:
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interesting, for years we have had loads of dead bumble bees in our horses water trough, yet last year we had hardly any. dont think anything changed but we planted loads of phaecelia (which they adored) in a different area so maybe they hung in that location instead.
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interesting, for years we have had loads of dead bumble bees in our horses water trough, yet last year we had hardly any. don't think anything changed but we planted loads of phaecelia (which they adored) in a different area so maybe they hung in that location instead.
Sadly, bees are on the decline, we need to do everything we can to help them.
Everyone:
Maybe pop a (smallish) branch or something similar which will float on the water of your horse troughs (or ponds)? It won't harm the horses and might save quite a few bees (and other insects) lives.
We have a branch placed in the water at one end (make sure the other end is facing away from horses) and have had a frog (or two) enjoying it as well.
:bee:
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thats a really good idea, a bit of branch off beach would work cos that would float i expect. never thought of that. it used to upset me seeing so many dead (about 5 a day all summer long) and then see things on telly that bumble bees are on decline. i do like them, we could count 200 at any one time on our phacelia in summer, though we planted a crop that flowered early autumn but not many bees were around then, where do they go? iv no idea :wave:
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thinking of buying a beehaus from omlet.
whats your opinion of it as a hive? :bee: :bee:
Not tried it myself but here are a couple of points for you to consider:
Last year, the BBKA's insurers decided not to cover any kind of plastic hive against disease. This is because these hives cannot be sterilised in the traditional way, by flaming with a blow-torch, and the insurers are not yet convinced that other methods are effective. Bee disease insurance comes as part of your BBKA membership, but won't cover any colonies in plastic hives for the time being. Of course, the manufacturers of plastic hives say you can sterilise them quite adequately with washing soda and household bleach, so the choice remains yours. Do you want the cover or not?
Have you considered the Dartington hive, which is made of wood? The omlet hive is substantially based on it. I have a couple of friends round here who use it with great success. You should be able to find it via google but if you have trouble let me know and I'll try and dig out the link for you.
Finally, just to let you know my own experience of plastic hives. I used a heavyweight expanded polystrene hive in 2009 the colony sailed through last years cold winter, emerging stronger than ever. the same colony this year in a wooden hive died of isolation starvation (got so cold the colony couldn't reach the stores they had available. very sad) during the recent cold spell. Having said that, there are always other factors at play and my other 2 colonies in wooden hives are flourishing.
I didn't like the design of that particular polystyrene hive much. It got very gungey with propolis and was hard to clean (see above). There is a wide range of plastic hives now on the market but most of them are Langstroth - because that's what most of the world uses! Thanks to the legacy of Mr WBC, we in the UK have the National as standard which makes us something of a niche market and we don't necessarily get the best of new developments. It's a bit like driving on the left so that all overseas car manufacturers have to adjust their designs to suit us! What it is to be British ;)
Sorry, a bit of an essay here. What do other folks think of different hive designs?
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Interesting post Daisy-at-the-dairy, thanks for sharing.
I use both National and Commercial hives. For extra insulation they fit inside the WBC outers which I also use. I won't be moving on from these as everything I have is geared up for these sizes. Plus I like wood. And I like being able to have a few 'traditional' WBC's in the bee garden.
:bee:
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We've got two National hives and we're hoping to get nucs this year. Our local BK Association is doing a queen breeding programme and members get them at a very good price. With a nuc, you also get a mentor, which is great. The local BKA also runs a beginners course, which John and I did last winter but our hive visits were cancelled due to bad weather in spring, so we're catching up with them this year. Got the suit but it's still got the packing creases in it :(
We've identified a fenced off area of the five acre field. If the battery of the camera is charged when I come back from the supermarket, I'll take a bit of video and post it on the site proper for comment.
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Hi Princess Piggy - the BBKA run a series of 'Official' correspondence courses in Beekeeping - leading to written exams and formal qualifications. I think that there are about six different specialisms - but I am sure that there are more details on the BBKA (sorry - British Beekeepers Association) website. But normally the first step would be to go for the BBKA Basic Certificate in Beekeeping. I don't know if you have contacted your local county Beekeepers Association. Mine is Devon Beekeepers (DBKA) - but they should be able to put you in touch with local to you beekeepers who run courses leading to the Basic Certificate. I took mine several years ago. It is a practical exam - including bee disease recognition, basic knowledge of Queen, Worker and Drone lifecycle and functions within the colony (hive), making up a frame and opening up and handing a colony - using the smoker and identifying open and sealed brood, workers and drones (and ideally - but not essentially - the queen).
Once you have passed the Basic - if you want to pursue a less 'academic' route towards furthering your beekeeping knowledge - the BBKA also award a 'Certificate in Beekeeping Husbandary' - this is again a practical exam held at your own apiary - you need to demonstate full record keeping of hive inspections - and I think you also need to demonstrate honey extraction (and probably a Queen Rearing programme as well). I believe that gaining the Beekeeping Husbandary Certificate is a prerequisite for becoming a Basic Certificate examiner. I have yet to try it. Anyway - that's for the future - for now you shouldl be able to pick up loads of useful info from your local Beekeepers Association (plus good cheap second hand kit - and locally raised nucs). Best wishes and good luck with your bees.
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sounds serious stuff, iv got a couple of years to learn the basics. i have no knowledge at all really so will read these threads for now, maybe find out whats in my area. thanks ;)
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Don't let the 'beekeeping exams' thing daunt you. They are optional and not essential, there are many good and respected beekeepers out there who have never taken an exam. They won't (and shouldn't) be forced down your throat - you take them if and when you decide you want to. First go along to a few meetings, meet the other new and experienced beekeepers and get a bit of hands on practice. You'll gain lots of confidence and knowledge and if you decide you want to take an exam at some future point, you can look into it then.
.......And if you do decide to try an exam or two, don't worry, they are quite interesting to do and informal. :)
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Hi there!
I'm 'Shnoowie's' (less attractive) other half! We started a ten week BBKA introductory course yesterday, and are incredibly enthusiastic about the whole thing. :bee: :bee:
We've got three old dadent hives we picked up on the cheap at the end of autumn, however the guy running our course has suggested that 'nationals' are the way to go as that is what our local branch have been striving to get everyone using so that frames, kit, etc is interchangeable if something goes very wrong. So i think we might be getting the saw out and reducing our hives to National sizing. (I have plans for both style hives, and i don't see this being a problem).
As we don't currently have any usable frames anyway, i don't have a problem with this, and i see the logic of everyone using compatable kit if you're going to be "community beekeeping".
Anyway, my question is entirely unrelated to this - during the winter do you use any sort of cover, or insulation to keep the hives warm? After the cold snap and the snow we've had, i do wonder if a few hives around here have gone a bit quiet...
ToGGoT
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Before you 'close down' for the winter the thing is to make sure they have enough stores to see them through (I don't take all of the honey) and do feed. I also have my frames in the 'warm' direction all year.
With regard to insulation, I overwinter some of my hives (I have Nationals and Commercials which although slightly differant in size, are interchangeable) inside WBC outers. I've not met many beekeepers who do this - commercial beekeepers wouldn't find it practical - it increases the price of the hives and increases the workload when doing hive checks. But I like to see an old WBC or two in the bee garden (but I think the original WBC interiors are just too small to be practical). Bee's usually over winter just fine.
One thing I do however, is pop a cement block (or a couple of heavy bricks) on top of the hives because of the wind. For a bit of protection against the elements I position my hives in a corner of the field where the hedgerow offers a bit of assistance, and not under a thick canopy of trees where it will be dark and damp.
Ask as many questions as you need to at your BBKA course, they know your area, they know the bees and will be able to give you some proper hands on advice.
:bee:
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The stupid people on a course are those who don't ask the question that all the other stupid people don't ask either! There aren't any daft questions on a beginners course so ask away.
OH does the diseases section of the course in our area and she recommends that people don't use second hand frames cos they are relatively cheap and really hard to disinfect effectively.
There's a lot to be said for standardising within the group. Stuff happens in a hurry.
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a correspondance course would suit me. im too busy to attend anything in person for a while yet. something i could dabble at while farm is coming up to scratch would be good, then when im ready i will hopefully not be as ignorant ;D ;D ;D :wave:
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a correspondance course would suit me. im too busy to attend anything in person for a while yet. something i could dabble at while farm is coming up to scratch would be good, then when im ready i will hopefully not be as ignorant ;D ;D ;D :wave:
You are doing ok princesspiggy, thinking of ways to help all bees (and indeed wildlife) is good, and needed. There aren't just honey bees that need our help, we need to give a bit of thought to bumble bees and other solitary bees too.
There's plenty of stuff on the internet, and some good books out there.
:bee: :wave:
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i love bumble bees :love: :love:
not keen on wasps tho, we have a few nests of those around, but they are moving gradually further away from our house each year.last year was the first year we werent pestered by wasps, maybe they like the flowers we planted too.