The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Equipment => Topic started by: Womble on November 23, 2024, 07:26:54 pm
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Currently we transport small bale hay using an 8'x5' flat bed trailer. It's a pain strapping it on and an even bigger pain at this time of year to find a time to collect when it isn't raining. We also don't have a lot of space to store hay on the farm.
To solve these issues, I'm seriously thinking of buying an old horse trailer such as this Ifor 505:
(https://www.centralenglandhorseboxes.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/red-505/ifor-for-sale.jpg)
There are lot of them about at prices from £500 up, depending on age and condition.
What I'm hoping is that I'll be able to fetch a load and then tow the whole thing into the field, leaving the hay in there as it is used, before going to get another load.
What do you think folks? Great idea? Terrible idea? Please give your reasons for either opinion!!
Thanks! :thumbsup:
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We have a IW TA510 that we used to collect two big round bales at a time. Never used it to feed hay though. You'd have to put a barrier between hay and sheep and I think they would make an awful mess, especially if they lie and therefore dung in the trailer. But I'm guessing, not having actually done it.
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I thought about buying one for the move to France, simply because they are easy to sell on later, but eventually settled for an Ifor box trailer. Reason was the weight of horse boxes limited the weight of the contents they could be loaded with. Access wasn't very good either. I'd worry about it getting bogged down and being top heavy. Perhaps you could buy a smaller box trailer for the same price?
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Oh, sorry Rosemary, I didn't mean to also use it as a hay rack - only as storage, then remove one bale at a time to put in a hay feeder.
Chris - actually box trailers seem to be more expensive. I think that's just because there are so many horse trailers around, and because people often trade up?
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When I was "oop north", we had customers would come and buy hay off us. Helping them load a horse trailer like this one wasn't my favourite, and because of the shape you couldn't get that many bales in.
But the loading faff is probably offset by the low cost of a having covered trailer.
If you have the money, though, personally I'd be looking at a pukka sheep trailer such as a CLH. We get 12 small bales in our 8', lid on. I can load it with the lid on (albeit I'm bent over!) - and it's convenient, legal and safe for taking sheep to the abattoir or market as well.
Don't underestimate the damage sheep will do to a trailer left in the field, though. Little bleeters damage lights, cables, number plates...
Oh, and about using the trailer for storage... Any trailer which transports animals will have lots of ventilation, and if you get stormy weather, horizontal rain etc like we do, hay would get wet if left in a trailer in the field, unless you cover all the ventilation gaps. (And tying tarps on creates more things for sheep to damage... lol)
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I'm with Sally on this - your sheep will destroy the trailer, making it unusable on the road. How do I know? ::)
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Oh, sorry Rosemary, I didn't mean to also use it as a hay rack - only as storage, then remove one bale at a time to put in a hay feeder
OK, we used to get two bales comfortably in ours - it's not a horsebox though, it's a livestock trailer so with a flat front. And yes, we'd store two in it until needed. We'd just be rolling the bale out the trailer and into the ring in the barn, so not trying to move it on soft ground. Keeping it in the field may be problem if the ground is soft.
And as Sally says, you need to close the vent flaps or the rain blows in, but not a problem with a horsebox.
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Go for it , you'll maybe get more bales in the trailer as you can go higher than on your small flatbed , just protect all light cables at the back and sides and remove the front cable
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I'm with Sally on this - your sheep will destroy the trailer, making it unusable on the road. How do I know? ::)
I thought that was geese? (we had to completely rewire our wee sheep trailer after making that mistake). Good shout though - will make sure all cables are sheep proofed, although actually our sheep have never damaged the other trailer they share a field with.
Yes, I can get 12 small bales in our Ifor P7e. (Getting them out again is sometimes another matter though ;D ). However, that's really not all that many in the grand scheme of things. A bigger sheep trailer would be great of course, but again that's £££ I can't justify just for added convenience.
We can get 25 on the flatbed, so I'd hope to get at least as many in a horse trailer, given it's a similar bed size, but we could go higher.
Thanks for all your wisdom, as ever.
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Oh, and about using the trailer for storage... Any trailer which transports animals will have lots of ventilation, and if you get stormy weather, horizontal rain etc like we do, hay would get wet if left in a trailer in the field, unless you cover all the ventilation gaps. (And tying tarps on creates more things for sheep to damage... lol)
I've done it using an old Ifor TA510 on some remote moorland where the difficulty was lack of access after the slightest rain. It worked, but with some issues. And in this situation it meant waiting for the weather to dry up before moving it back out so "tied it up". But it wasn't a bad idea for using an old trailer, and saved not just mauling onto site, but also mauling out of trailer to store and then feeding out to racks in due course.
Yes, any cables, including those underneath will get nibbled, side marker lamps especially. This was an old one so they didn't work anyhow. They will also rub against edges and mudguards. You need a fence around it. You also need to be on a good surface, as it will sink into a field with the weight over an extended period and make pulling it out a bit of an effort, also ensure the underside is not on long grass that will rot it.
I can't comment on horse trailers, but an aluminium stock trailer will give condensation inside the roof that will drop onto the hay and rot it. You can put a tarp over the hay but you'll still get (lesser) condensation under that. Similarly for the sides, don't cram them in against the sides and front/ back but drape the tarp over them to stop ingress from vents even the flap ones shut, and allow some space underneath for venilation.
You need to put hay on pallets or it will sweat on an aluminium floor, which will also contain any water getting in, so park it on a slat, so any water getting in can run out, but note there is usually a rear lip which wil hold any water and potentially rot the floor, so seal that with mastic so it can run over and out under the door. Chock the wheels so the rain but not the trailer can run away downhill after rocking in the wind (do not put handbrake on or it will lock on). If you have some old plastic bread pallets, pop these underneath to stop stock hiding under the trailer from the weather and getting stuck.
The gap over the rear door is less of an issue than might be expected, but face it to be sheltered most of the time.
It's not a bad idea to have some space in the back behind the bales so you can get it and pull them down without the stock helping you. Have a step ladder there. Also a handy place to hide if the weather is pants when putting stock out - and entertaining with the back up and you audibly inside with food, they will circle the trailer endlessly like Indians in a Western.
If you are going to put bagged feed in there too, pop it in a bin for weatherproofing, and provide some protection against rats although we didn't have an issue with those or birds, nor need to put rat blocks down.
Even with pallets on the floor under the hay, you will get spoil encrusted on it so after clearing it out, it needs scraping and jet washing, and left to dry thoroughly.
Think I had about 42 small bales in there for about 4 months.
I've also done similar with a six stringer big bale on pallets under a tarp on an old plant trailer. Without a roof there was no condensation but you do need a good tarpaulin and the means to weight it down tightly as you take wads off, as well as moveable pallet end supports to stop the bale expanding aafter the strings are cut and it gets shorter taken off. This was on an old trailer again on which the floor is going to be replaced, and it hammered it. On a newer trailer you'd want it all covered. Was there for about two weeks at a time and a lot less hassle than small bales, as well as cheaper. Tried round bales kept on there but they were a no-go, as if stored on end they seem to distort and grab the floor, making it a pain to slide them out. If on the side they go flat and are hard to roll off. Might as well roll them off when you arrive (assuming you are not on a hill, you won't want to try and stop a round taking out everything downhill!). Same issues as before with wiring, siting, ground etc.
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we have the small livestock trailer and used to do what you want to do with it (30 ish bales at a time.). Now we use same trailer but have large 4 string put in it . It stays in there with tarp over top until used. We use dumpy bags to decant it to feeders (or other storage near feeders. Hay cheaper and less bad backs!
However dont park it in goat field!!!! :innocent:
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I use my trailer for storing small hay bales. I can get around 30 in at a time.
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I'm with Sally on this - your sheep will destroy the trailer, making it unusable on the road. How do I know? ::)
I thought that was geese?
Geese got a tractor, sheep got a sheep trailer and a horse box, a Soay ewe got the door on our brand new car by beating up her reflection :wave:
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Well, I got one!
She's a fixer-upper, for sure - cost me £400 plus £150 for the recovery truck.
The story is that the previous owners had replaced the floor with new phoenolic ply, and put new tyres on. However, when they went to use it one of the bearings collapsed and a wheel fell off (completely cracking the brake drum in the process!). They then needed a trailer in a hurry to move their horse, so bought another one!
It's up on bricks now and from an initial look I think the bearings and brakes need to be replaced throughout. It also needs a new jockey wheel. The rest of it actually doesn't look too bad (for my purposes at least).
Will keep you posted!
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Update: I got all the wheels and hubs off today. Two brake assemblies look reasonable (see pic), one is knackered and one was, er, completely missing and what the hell am I even going to bolt a replacement back-plate to!? (see second pic). I'm currently trying to decide if I need to replace all four or not - advice is welcome.
Also, as per the third pic, there is a small, er, thing sticking out near the end of one of the axles, which the hub washer has a cut-out to accommodate. Can anybody tell me what that is, and what I do about the absence of the other three please!?
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do you actually need all 4 wheels for the use that you are going for?
Why not just have one axle?
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I did notice with our 4 wheel box trailer that the tyres scrubbed badly when making tight turns, so Bywaters has a good point, do you really need two axles? Perhaps just one in the position for best balance?
I can see that the missing backplate is going to need a whole new axle assembly, which is obviously going to be expensive.
No idea about the 'thing' sticking out Womble- sure ours didn't have that. I had to take all the hub/drum assemblies off to clean the rust off the braking surface. The hub nut has to be torqued to a pretty high figure and I had to buy a new wrench to do it. It was also 42mm A/F and needed a new socket (also used on Ducati rear axles apparently).
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Hmmm, I might well not need both axles for my use, but honestly I don't fancy trying to explain that to a friendly policeman!
@Chris - this is a pre-1992 model trailer with taper bearings, rather than the sealed bearings yours has that require silly amounts of torque on the hub nut. The advantage of that is they're easier for user servicing (e.g. you don't need a bearing press). I suppose the disadvantage is that they need regular maintenance such as greasing, but I'm not really sure. Perhaps they stopped using them because they kept failing!?
I managed to find out that "the thing" is a "spirol pin", part number F1909S. It's quite literally a spiral spring pin, and I'm pretty sure it's "just" there to stop the hub washer from rotating and hence spinning the castle nut off.
This trailer was cheap because it had lost a wheel and cracked a hub, and I think that was actually *because* it sheared off the spirol pin. That will then have allowed the bearing to rotate the washer, the washer to put a torque on the castle nut, and the castle nut to fall off when the split pin also failed.
Overall, this trailer is a perfect example of what happens if you run a trailer for years and never maintain it. I can fix everything up and will enjoy learning in the process, but being honest, I do wonder if I should have bought a better one to begin with. Let's see how things pan out!
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Hmmm, I might well not need both axles for my use, but honestly I don't fancy trying to explain that to a friendly policeman!
Keep the u/s bits in the barn and if said bobby turns up tell him they were taken off for repair and you were just going to the mart to buy the bits you need when he turned up :innocent: It's a fun game :roflanim:
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Or just replace the bearings and put the wheels back on, thus hiding the absence of brakes..... which is the game the previous owners were (I think unwittingly) playing.