The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: SavageU on January 05, 2024, 07:30:45 pm
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Ok, so I have read the books and think I will be fine knowing when to ask for help or a vet incase of a random leg presentation or ewe becoming ill.
What i'm really worrying about is cleaning the lamb after (iodine to cord) in terms of when to do that and with what spray bottle, or jar and tipped upside down so it covers it?
Then dealing with the afterbirth.
Do I just put it on my muck heap?
I'm really hoping for mother nature to be kind to me and the ewes and that they all get to get on with it, without any mishap.
Once that's all done do I just keep them in for two days ish, weather dependant, and then get them outside? Would you bring them in on a night?
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iodine just the navel, if you do it by spray, it is more efficient use (ie less) No need to clean the lamb off - best not to or it will lose the smell and ewe might abandon it
We collect up the afterbirth, using the big red gloves / plastic bag, tie a not in it and it goes into the bin.
Leaving it around or in the muck heap will encourage fozes / rats / badgers etc
Ours lamb outside. It's the ones who have needed treatment or are thinking about rejecting their lambs that we bring in. Some first timers , if they have had a hard birthing or have twins, benefit from being inside, on their own, so they can bond and also easy to get hold of if there are any problems
They are pretty wonderful things and generally get on with it, however, feeding too much to late can cause problems with big heads and horn buds, as will crossing with texels types (dependant on what they are put onto of course) GOod luck and keep watching them
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Iodine for the navel, I use a 60:40 mix of iodine and surgical spirit as it dries the navel quicker. I have dipped and sprayed, my preference would be dip as long as you keep the dip cup clean- get one like this rather than using a jar.
https://www.moleonline.com/ambic-standard-dipper-teat-dip-cup-ad100-30ml-1003872 (https://www.moleonline.com/ambic-standard-dipper-teat-dip-cup-ad100-30ml-1003872)
I lamb inside, my ewes stay in individual pens for 1-2 days on average; then onto a nursery pen, normally when the nursery is full I will turn out providing the weather forecast has 36-48 hours dry. Once mine are out they don’t come back in. If the weather is dicey and I have run out of space I do use lamb Macs, they are very good.
Don’t forget to ring your lambs tails and balls before you move out of individual pens if they need doing.
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Ok, yes I can move to a nursery pen I think easily enough after. I’ve been checking for bagging up and any other behaviours.
Tailing then I am a bit nervous about (balls) more than anything but I need to have a bit more confidence in my abilities I think.
Cleaned the barn out with the jetwash and Christ, 💩 really sticks doesn’t it 🥴
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Dipping navels is much more effective than spraying. It seals up the navel quicker than spraying. And because when you dip the iodine goes into the umbilical cord you are less likely to trap bacteria in there when it dries off and seals. Twizzel's suggestion of iodine and surgical spirit is a good one and better than just pure iodine.
Cleanliness is very important. Keep bedding dry and make use of disinfectant powder too. Once mothered up the sooner you can get them out the better.
Make sure they get up and sucking as quickly as possible. As twizzel say's deal with tails and testicles before they go out too.
You might want to number up ewes and their lambs so that once they are out you know who belongs to who. Invaluable if you find an abandoned lamb or are registering offspring etc.
Have everything you might need handy.
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Don’t be afraid to call for help if you’re not sure- I tend to say that if I’ve been lambing a ewe and not got anywhere in 10 minutes I’ll ask for help. Better to ring for help than have a dead lamb or ewe.
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Yes, friends or a vet will be rang in the event of any emergencies. I've checked my lambing box and i'm happy with my kit, I have everything I think I can manage myself with the ewes and lambs.
We are going to try making some pens out of pallets and the hurdles we have.
So I have checked my serving dates and allowing for 2 weeks of him acting as a teaser to the 14th September,...the ewes should be sue any date from the 6th February.
For serving 13 ewes, i'm hoping he's covered them all at a good rate and that it's reasonably tight and not 3 months of a job :thinking:
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Raddling your ram next year is well worth doing. You can tell he is working and know when each ewe was served- which is great at lambing as you know who to keep an eye on and when.
Have you got any practical experience? If not it may be worth trying to find a farmer locally that would let you come along for a few mornings lambing, because to be frank reading books is ok but nowhere near as good as practical experience. Good luck!
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The world is divided into dippers and sprayers. I prefer dipping using 10% iodine. I think you get better coverage and iodine helps to dry up the cord very quickly.
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Don’t forget to ring your lambs tails and balls before you move out of individual pens if they need doing.
We pretty much did the same as twizzel. Tip - if you can't get the balls, don't do the tail. THen you can pick out the ones not castrated. We didn't castrate our Ryelands as they went off before they were sexually mature, but that won't work for all breeds.
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Dipping is likely to be more thorough, it's too easy to have a spot not covered spraying. I sprayed initially, the helped on a farm which dipped, and switched my own thereon.
Having said which, I don't do anything these days, all ours lamb outdoors in April! But if I ever did have to bring any newborns in, then I would dip the umbilicus.
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out of interest why don't you treat the umbilicus any more ?
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out of interest why don't you treat the umbilicus any more ?
Lambing outdoors in warmer drier weather and using small primitive tups, we aim for as natural a lambing as possible. Ewes lamb onto (usually) dry clean grass, are not interrupted and so clean off their lambs very quickly and successfully. Dry warmish weather helps dry the cord naturally. Our choices have for us resulted so far in excellent bonding, first feeds happening very quickly so maximum passive immunity passed from ewe to lamb, and so on. We have experienced no joint ill thus far, and so do not feel the need to intervene with the ewes' natural behaviours. If we started to experience joint ill then we would of course review our practises.
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That sounds lovely, no intervention or spraying.
I’ve bought a spray so I can dunk and spray.
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I prefer to spray, I seemed to spill a lot trying to get a good cover with dipping. One of the goats kidded early, outside, other things going on, it didn't get sprayed, weeks later baby couldn't walk, joint ill 😥.treated but still not right.
I lamb outside unless there looks to be a problem, mainly weather, but normally wait for late March/April lambing, then get them inside for a few days, tail the females, (not too short, prefer to leave longer than legal requirement) I leave tails on males but band them. I can see at a glance females/male lambs.
Some little floozies got through to the boys this year though, no idea when they are due :( .
Afterbirth I leave for ewe to eat it if she wants, but anything left goes under muckheap.
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For our location and with it being our first time, I feel more comfortable lambing inside.
We've already had ringwomb, bad presentation and dead twins unfortunately, so not the start I wanted, or the outcome for the poor ewe either, she was sad and sore after.
Ended up a vet job and she said there was nothing I could have done.
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:hug:
If the vet said there was nothing you could've done then there really wasn't.
Ringwomb is not common but it happens. An inexperienced shepherd should absolutely call the vet, and even experienced hands will often end up doing so after trying to help her open up (for a short while, gently. If you haven't been shown how and how to know when to stop, then don't try it yourself, call the vet.)
Dead lambs are the most difficult to get out, and are almost always presented badly because a live lamb participates in its presentation and a dead lamb does not. Dead lambs happen to all of us - and it's well known and quoted that most of your lambing problems will happen at the beginning, or less commonly the end, of your lambing period. Again, even very experienced farmers often end up getting the vet to deliver dead lambs, because they're very difficult to deliver and not only can the vet can do a caesar if needed, but the vet can administer drugs to help the ewe recover that the farmer may not keep - or be able to keep - on hand.
So, do not beat yourself up, you did nothing wrong and made the right choice in getting the vet. Try not to dwell on the disappointment, but look forward to the live lambs that will come. And know, we have all been there, we all know how you are feeling, and we are all here if you want to talk :hug: or just cry :'( :hug:
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:hug:
Again, even very experienced farmers often end up getting the vet to deliver dead lambs, because they're very difficult to deliver and not only can the vet can do a caesar if needed, but the vet can administer drugs to help the ewe recover that the farmer may not keep - or be able to keep - on hand.
Sally, The vet refused to do a caesar on my goat, due to bacteria? a kid left in, vets next day, goat was closing up, she decided to pull dead kid out.
2019. the goat screaming as vet pulled still haunts me. :'( :'( . We ended up losing Candy the mum as well :'( .
We don't go to that vet now, another vet at same practice left a triplet in after insisting there were no more. But that's another horrible tale, and another dead goat :'( :'(
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:hug:
Again, even very experienced farmers often end up getting the vet to deliver dead lambs, because they're very difficult to deliver and not only can the vet can do a caesar if needed, but the vet can administer drugs to help the ewe recover that the farmer may not keep - or be able to keep - on hand.
Sally, The vet refused to do a caesar on my goat, due to bacteria? a kid left in, vets next day, goat was closing up, she decided to pull dead kid out.
2019. the goat screaming as vet pulled still haunts me. :'( :'( . We ended up losing Candy the mum as well :'( .
We don't go to that vet now, another vet at same practice left a triplet in after insisting there were no more. But that's another horrible tale, and another dead goat :'( :'(
The risk of peritonitis to the mother is very high when taking a dead decaying calf/lamb/kid out of side door I think :gloomy:
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I didn't want to get too graphic, but there are other techniques the vet can and will use too, which in general, a sheep farmer would neither be able nor want to, or at least, a small-scale one certainly wouldn't.
@PennineHillBilly those are some awful experiences. I'm glad you changed your vet. Some vets really shouldn't offer a farm animal service :/
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Thought I would update the thread. The two ewes that were hobbling are now nicely managing.
The one that was really hobbling, it still looks a little tender but she is bearing weight now and walking more normally now, so satisfied whatever it is will be sorted with a clean up, trim and a spray.
Lambing is...not going well.
First ewe, wouldn't progress, rang vet - ringwomb and bad presentation, also early labour...2 small dead lambs.
Second, prolapse, rang vet, csection. One lamb managed minutes, the other an hour and the ewe died the day after.
I have felt like a deer in the headlights quite honestly. I have rang the vets in a timely manner and it still hasn't meant a good outcome for the lambs, they just don't seem interested if they live or die.
Everyone is telling me that it's hard for sheep and sometimes that's the way it goes but WOW, quite the experience.
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Lambing is a great time of year but it’s also really stressful and can be overwhelming. You have to pick yourself up from a bad lambing and move onto the next. I remember the 2nd or 3rd year I lambed my little flock, I had a uterine prolapse, ringwomb and subsequent caesarean, countless legs back, watery mouth, ewes having triplets that were scanned for singles, you name it they threw it at me! It was a baptism of fire. But I got through it and you will too, learn a lot along the way and next year will be better :gloomy:
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That sounds rough going @twizzel.
I just feel, quite genuinely that without someone at the side of me I aren't skilled enough yet to get a hand in there and feel for shoulders and legs. The first ewe it was awful the vet had her hand in for so long I just knew the lambs were dead.
I am trying to pick myself up and it has definitely made me think that I need back ups in the room (not bagged up in the house) and set up a proper area for myself, so I am learning about what works for me and how I want it to work next year.
I just feel massively cheated out of 4 lambs and having to watch the ewes go through some traumatic births without a lamb to lick after.
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Where are you? There may be a member that’s not too far that can be a lambing buddy. Does your vet run lambing courses, or is there a sheep farm nearby that would let you get a few days experience lambing?
Sadly there will always be losses. And there will be ewes who have a straight forward lambing with a live lamb to reward them and they won’t want it :rant:
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Yorkshire.
I do have people locally I can call upon, if my ewes weren’t imminent I would do that. I suppose I feel cheeky and some peoples attitude is to ‘let them fail and figure it out on their own’
I do have someone I can ask with a big set-up about an hour away for some experience which I will look into.
I definitely learn by doing.
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Donaldsons run lambing courses
PRobably starting soon
Not much help for this year but maybe piece of mind and a help for next ?
Donaldsons are Huddersfield based and are of Yorkshire vet fame
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It’s just too far in an emergency Huddersfield. Will have a look at their courses though, thank you.
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it was for the lambing course that I mentioned it :)
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I had a look and they do have a branch locally.
Thank you, I will enquire. Spoke to a friend and she said that she’d been on 4 lambing courses!
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Rand Donaldsons and they have some lambing courses on offer.
Cold buffet included! Not close, but not so far I need satbav for NYorks moors so that’s a bonus! X