The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Backinwellies on October 13, 2023, 07:40:44 am
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Ok so by default I have learned of this new box ticking exercise which will cost us money! Ie that of having to have an annual vet visit to be able to take stock to an abattoir .... just in case it is exported (thanks Brexiteers!)
If you have cows then this is lucky as you can tag this to your Tb test (ie no cost?) otherwise I'm guessing you have to pay for vet to come out (income from a one of your carcases gone!)
Now I have a question .... if I am having stock slaughtered which I know is going to local customers ... exported as far as England from Wales possibly :) why would I need this check?
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perhaps I misread this, but I thought is was ONLY if exporting meat abroad
If I did, then I would have thought the markets would have categories for exportable and non exportable
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You may get the meat back, but the offal, skins, other bits which you don’t get back with the carcass may be exported, which is why you’ll need it regardless of doing direct selling or not.
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So money for the boys again .... I pay my vet .... so someone else can cash in on the sheep skins... hardly fair
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So if I'm sending just a couple of sheep for my own consumption I have to have them inspected by the vet, at my expense? I blame the vegans ;) for a subtle pressure to give up meat :o (not really)
I wonder how this would work in some of the Northern Isles where there is a real scarcity of visiting vets?
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If it's the same as the pig regs (which are vet visit within last *quarter*, I think, as of 1st Jan 2024), then it's about the abattoir not you. If the abattoir processes any animal of which any part may make it into the EU, then this check applies. I think.
Do not assume that a TB test will cover you, we have been caught out.
Firstly, the vet does not need to send a qualified vet to do the TB test any more, they can send a technician. Our vet allows us to *request* that they send an actual vet to do one of the TB visits, but depending on what is happening at the time, we may or may not get one.
Secondly, you need the attending vet to see *all the species* you wish to be covered - and it's not just for the abattoir check box, it's also for the ability to get antibiotics to be prescribed over the phone. And that's only for 6 months now, not 12 months as it was previously.
Since we are most likely to want antibiotics for the sheep at lambing time, we aim to get our cattle TB tested as late as possible after housing for the winter. The calves will have gone off by then, too, so we only have to have the adults tested. (This year we're booked for the TB test mid November, so it'll cover any over-the-phone prescription we need up to mid-May. We lamb from mid-April.)
I'd answer your :-J comment, [member=4333]Fleecewife[/member], but I"d be in trouble for talking politics...
There is no question, it is getting harder and harder - and more and more expensive - to keep very small numbers of animals for one's own consumption. It may not have been the driving reason, but I doubt the government is shedding any tears if it pushes a few more smallholders and small farmers out of livestock production...
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I've just received this email from my vet:
Dear Farmer, legislation is set to change from 13th December 2023, meaning all producers selling livestock for slaughter need to have an annual farm veterinary check to allow their animals (or animal parts), to be exported outside of the UK. In practice, this applies to all animals unless the abattoir/market can guarantee that nothing derived from the animals (including waste products e.g. blood and guts/5th quarter goods) will be exported to the EU. If unsure whether this is the case, you should check with the abattoir/market you are using.
As vets we must verify the absence of notifiable disease and assess biosecurity to comply with EU export requirements. If you’re already part of an assurance scheme such as Red tractor, then you don’t need a veterinary declaration as your membership of an assurance scheme is certification enough. If you partake in the animal health and welfare funded visits then this also counts, but we do need to provide you with a veterinary attestation number (VAN) on our report, which needs to be provided to the abattoir or market. Remember, the animal health and welfare visits are fully government funded, so it’s a scheme that’s well worth considering partaking in.
If you have more than one site on your CPH, we will need to check every site and if you have multiple CPH’s then you will need a separate declaration/VAN for each CPH. The vet declaration needs to be for the last holding of residence before slaughter. Upon completion of a veterinary attestation visit, you’ll be provided with a signed declaration (which you must keep on record) and given the VAN, which you’ll need to provide to your livestock auction market or meat processor. You will need a visit at least once annually.
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With so many local practices now ditching the large animal side this could become a real pain in the arse :-\
I hadn’t heard of this coming in so a bit of a shock. As for the Brexit comment this has naff all to do with that this is just the bullshite bureaucracy that governs us & the EU.
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The pig licence for slaughter has asked if you have a quarterly vet certificate from very soon after we left Europe but it is a yes or no answer. Vets shouldn't give you medicines if they haven't visited your farm in the last months but for years many have, which again vets have been tightening up on.
For those of you who think it has nothing to do with brexit it most certainly does. Just days after leaving Europe I rang the collection centre to arrange to drop off a cull sow. Not only were they experiencing transport issues they said I needed a vets certificate or they couldn't take her.
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I am participating in the gov't funded Animal Health and Welfare visit / report so have asked my vet to confirm that it will suffice and to make sure that it will
The visit / report was quite useful. Yet to receive the report but it teased out a few things that I was concerned about but also demonstrated that my worming plan works ! and that we haven't got fluke (at the moment)
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With so many local practices now ditching the large animal side this could become a real pain in the arse :-\
I hadn’t heard of this coming in so a bit of a shock. As for the Brexit comment this has naff all to do with that this is just the bullshite bureaucracy that governs us & the EU.
No, a lot of it is actually a direct result of Brexit. It's about ensuring that all animal products which could enter the EU through Ireland will still comply with EU regulations.
It would have been much simpler (for producers, abattoirs and processors) had the government simply agreed that all livestock production and produce handling would have continued to conform to EU regs, so that anything of UK origin could safely enter the EU by whatever route. As the government did not want to do that, we have the worst of both worlds. We still have to comply with the often convoluted and ill-conceived legislation dreamt up by Defra (or your country's equivalent) but now also have a raft of additional, often arcane hoops to jump through in order that the EU can - quite reasonably - be sure that nothing non-conforming enters the EU.
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totally agree with you Sally
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The pig licence for slaughter has asked if you have a quarterly vet certificate from very soon after we left Europe but it is a yes or no answer. Vets shouldn't give you medicines if they haven't visited your farm in the last months but for years many have, which again vets have been tightening up on.
As I am understanding it, the "yes/no" answer will need to be "yes" as from 1st Jan 2024. But as ever, there is a lot of information out there, some of it contradictory... :/
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For those of you who think it has nothing to do with brexit it most certainly does. Just days after leaving Europe I rang the collection centre to arrange to drop off a cull sow. Not only were they experiencing transport issues they said I needed a vets certificate or they couldn't take her.
We now can't get our cattle skins processed. The firm we use used to send cattle skins to Italy but has elected to opt out of the additional bureaucracy and be a "not for EU" site, so is not now processing cattle hides "fur on". (They can still do leather but it's the full skins we used to get.) Until recently I had assumed this was about the EU regs per se but I can see now that it's more about avoiding getting caught up in the Northern Ireland Protocol malarky.
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The pig licence for slaughter has asked if you have a quarterly vet certificate from very soon after we left Europe but it is a yes or no answer. Vets shouldn't give you medicines if they haven't visited your farm in the last months but for years many have, which again vets have been tightening up on.
As I am understanding it, the "yes/no" answer will need to be "yes" as from 1st Jan 2024. But as ever, there is a lot of information out there, some of it contradictory... :/
Where have you seen that Sally?
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The pig licence for slaughter has asked if you have a quarterly vet certificate from very soon after we left Europe but it is a yes or no answer. Vets shouldn't give you medicines if they haven't visited your farm in the last months but for years many have, which again vets have been tightening up on.
As I am understanding it, the "yes/no" answer will need to be "yes" as from 1st Jan 2024. But as ever, there is a lot of information out there, some of it contradictory... :/
Where have you seen that Sally?
I wish I could find it again! I thought I'd come across it when I was filling in the eAml2 stuff for our piggies going off but haven't managed to find it again. Will keep looking and will post here if I find it.
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Found something...
On this (https://www.eaml2.org.uk/eblock/services/resources.ashx/001/357/606/Defra_QA_-_vet_attestations_for_POAO_exports_to_the_EU.pdf) page (entitled "Veterinary attestation for exports of Products of Animal Origin to the EU : Q&A guidance for industry and vets"), item 2 reads
2. Previously farmers were able to self-declare that a veterinary visit has taken place; what has changed?
A temporary measure - farmer’s attestation - was put in place to maintain trade to the EU. However, farmer self-attestation does not comply with RCVS requirements for certification. Therefore, in 2022, it was agreed that farmer attestations could only be used as evidence of compliance until 13 December 2023. From this date, evidence of the veterinary visits needs to be passed from the veterinarian on farm to the certifying OV at the end of the food chain.
If - and it's a big IF - your abattoir does not enable any of its outputs (including things like skin, blood, etc) to enter the EU, sufficiently robustly for the purposes of the Northern Ireland Protocol, then the Vet Attestation will not be required. (And I think that all materials leaving the abattoir will be stamped "NOT FOR EU" so that they can't arrive there by any circuitous route). We will find out what our local abattoir is planning on this front, but will do so once the busy Christmas / New Year period is behind us and they're a little less maxed out.
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I think that all materials leaving the abattoir will be stamped "NOT FOR EU" so that they can't arrive there by any circuitous route.
Yep. It's started:
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My apologies if I am being a bit dim, but does this apply to ALL livestock due to go for slaughter and into the food chain, ie cattle, pigs and sheep?
If so, it has completely passed me by - so have I missed some form of notification?
And if so, from who?
I think I have answered my own question - it is ALL livestock. Extract below from Sheep Vet Society:
To Livestock Producers,
From the 13 December 2023 all livestock farmers who produce livestock or livestock products that end up in the food chain and which may be exported to the European Union will require proof of an annual vet visit. The vet visit will review the farm and all its livestock species for signs of notifiable diseases and biosecurity risks. Our livestock industry has high volumes of EU trade of both fresh meat and other livestock produce (like 5th quarter), so we are working to support industry in meeting these criteria. Defra is supporting the veterinary profession in the smooth implementation of this measure.
Defra have worked with industry and can confirm that farms in certain farm assurance schemes don’t need to do anything new. Being part of these schemes gives assurance of at least an annual vet visit. The current qualifying farm assurance schemes are:
Red Tractor
Quality Meat Scotland (QMS)
Farm Assured Welsh Livestock Beef and Lamb Scheme (FAWL) / Welsh Lamb and Beef Producers Ltd (WLBP)
Lion Quality
Poultry Health Scheme
If you are not part of the above farm assurance schemes, please read the below for what you need to do.
What does this mean for me?
Vet Attestation visits should be combined with other routine vet visits wherever possible, so long as all livestock species on the farm are considered and the vet can assess the bio-security risk in relation to notifiable disease. They will provide you with a visit receipt, showing that they have been there. You should both keep a copy of that receipt.
The vet will also give you a ‘Vet Attestation Number’ – known as a ‘VAN’ – that is valid for a year from date of visit. If your vet has been out to your farm within the past year and feels content their visit also covered the scope described above, you can ask them to create a VAN for your reference and share that with you. You will need to write this VAN on your Food Chain Information (FCI) document when you sell livestock destined for slaughter through a livestock market or to an abattoir.
If your farm has received or is due to receive a Defra funded visit under the Defra Animal Health and Welfare Review Pathway scheme, part of the visit will include the vet giving you a VAN number, which you will need to record on the FCI document.
We are updating the paper forms and creating some new IT options for the VAN to be recorded. For pig keepers we are building functionality into eAML2 so that you can add this VAN digitally. We will share further communications on these details in the months ahead.
If you’re not part of an assurance scheme listed above or have had or are about to have a visit under the Defra Animal Health and Welfare Pathway Scheme, speak to your vet to either: a) request a VAN backdated from your farm visit in the last year that you can write on your FCI document, or b) arrange a visit for your vet to provide this service and VAN so your livestock and products derived from your livestock can be exported after 13 December 2023.
Contact your local livestock market or abattoir – they can advise you.
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Found something...
On this (https://www.eaml2.org.uk/eblock/services/resources.ashx/001/357/606/Defra_QA_-_vet_attestations_for_POAO_exports_to_the_EU.pdf) page (entitled "Veterinary attestation for exports of Products of Animal Origin to the EU : Q&A guidance for industry and vets"), item 2 reads
2. Previously farmers were able to self-declare that a veterinary visit has taken place; what has changed?
A temporary measure - farmer’s attestation - was put in place to maintain trade to the EU. However, farmer self-attestation does not comply with RCVS requirements for certification. Therefore, in 2022, it was agreed that farmer attestations could only be used as evidence of compliance until 13 December 2023. From this date, evidence of the veterinary visits needs to be passed from the veterinarian on farm to the certifying OV at the end of the food chain.
If - and it's a big IF - your abattoir does not enable any of its outputs (including things like skin, blood, etc) to enter the EU, sufficiently robustly for the purposes of the Northern Ireland Protocol, then the Vet Attestation will not be required. (And I think that all materials leaving the abattoir will be stamped "NOT FOR EU" so that they can't arrive there by any circuitous route). We will find out what our local abattoir is planning on this front, but will do so once the busy Christmas / New Year period is behind us and they're a little less maxed out.
So, maybe the quarterly vets visit question will be removed because we will all require vets attestation. Currently, I can't see anything that says we will need a quarterly vets report only that we will need the annual visit.