The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: plumseverywhere on December 23, 2010, 04:50:36 pm
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I might be over reacting here but I think my ToggieX is acting odd. He is sleeping stood up outside of his house and he is knee deep in snow whilst doing it.
He comes from quite robust bloodlines as his mum's breeder keeps her goats out all year round (with optional shelter of course) but having had a couple of bright-moon nights I've noticed reggie stood out there and just wondered if this is something to worry about?
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Is he lying down during the day inside? Mine are lounging on their by now fairly deep bedding even during the day. Had them out for about 10 minutes today, they definitely do not like snow!
Yes I would worry if he's out all night in this cold weather, is he being "shunted" out of the shed? Can you put them inside and close the door, so that they have to stay in? And if you do that, do they fight or does he try to get back out?
Is he eating/drinking/p**ing alright?
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he's eating, drinking wee'ing and poo'ing all fine. I'm 99% sure he's not shunted out as he is boss over the other goat. just looked out window and they are both out ::)
have tried feeding them in the shed to encourage them in, they have hay in there and clean deep bedding. it ventilated but not draughty. aaaaaaagh!!
as for shutting them in, they hate it. there is some tusseling between them but mainly they don't like being shut in. during th eday, they do their own thing. the girl will sit in the shed cudding but then come out and have a nose but reggie does tend to be more outdoors.
stressed, very!!
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I think you may just have to watch and see what happens. If he's alright outside, then I guess he jst loves winter.... he must be the only one!
He probably will dash inside the minute you turn off your lights.... or maybe he's waiting for Santa!!!!
Mine have usually some snow inside their shed, just the way the ventilation works, and the outer door is open in all but the foulest of weather, but shut at night time. Mine also do not have coats, and I would only put them onto them if they were sick or visibly shaking. So far they are fine, just going through the hay as if summer is starting in January and we have to finish it all before then...
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HI Anke, I think you've hit upon something!! once the lights went off last night, they both went into their shed and have only just come out (8.15am)
reason I know this is because scarlett, my 3 year old, was really poorly all night so I've been up and down with her and had quick peeks outside - no goats staring up at us. lights on and they stay out... I think they want to live with us 24/7 bless them!
then, at 5am hubby realised I was 'missing' (took hime 7 hours...) and instead of checking daughters bed he assumed I was out with the goats, opened back door and 2 heads popped out of the shed but went back in LOL.
can't believe how stressed and worried I get about my animals ::)
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No, I am as stressed about mine too, atm sheep are counted every morning just to make sure they all got up.... -13 last night again....
But I think if you only have two goats that have lots of contact with you and the girls they are much more likely to regard themselves as part of the family.
Hope your little girl perks up for tomorrow though, I had poor children at Xmas before and it is not fun...
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So glad I am not the only one that worries continously about my goats ;D
I luckly have a experenced goat friend that lives quite close who I can phone and who visits every other week or so. Without her I would be out of my mind :o
my latest issues (please dont all laugh to much)
about 2 weeks ago one of my normally silent nanny goats started chatting to me. She has never done it before. So after a phone conversation and later in the week a visit from my friend the outcome was. She is in kid and is talking to the kid. I worry for nothing ;D
this week I was convinced the all my girls were not eatting hay and that my Bon Bon was thin :'( and therefore of course was convinced on the road to the rainbow. After a phone call and a visit from my friend..........
Bonbon is not thin, dolly is fat and I have cut down the sugar beet and they are eatting all the hay again.
They keep u on your toes ;D
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they chatter to the kid?! oh wow! how cute is that!! is it your first time kidding then? I'm quite worried about taking savannah to the billy as we've not done it before and to be honest, supportive as he tries to be, hubby has nothing to do with the animals - it was the deal from the start if I wanted animals I dealt with them. which is fine but its scary too!!
glad to hear your nanny is fine though, I do think its very cute :)
xmas eve I spent the morning sobbing on my very good (non-pet keeping) friend because my little girl goat had some runny poo. I have lost 2 to scour this year already so the minute I saw that, I freaked. 24 hours of no concentrate, just hay and water and a bucket of scour drink and she was 100% again but I was so worried.
as for reggie - he's sleeping in the shed every night now. soon as the house lights go out, he goes in. I think it was because we'd been sledging with the goats and they'd really enjoyed playing with us, they got a bit too humanised!
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try not to panic Plums... our goat house is right by our back door & they can hear it unlock (I'm sure) and will often come out their house when we do, to see what's in it for them!
and when the security light comes on - even bleating "hello" as you go out the door!
they have good thick coats, especially as your little boy (like ours) is a toggie cross.
Divanp75 - I love the idea of them talking to the kid. All our animals have been made quite daft, living here & "talk" to us anyway, but I'll sneak a peek at Geraldine, if / when she is back in kid (after how Cesar was talking to her, I reckon she already is!)
:)
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i like the talking part we dont have goats but o/h says that ducks laugh and you can talk to pigs with them talking back to you
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It is stressful having dependent animals. Fortunately I have a husband who is incredibly laid back ( probably not as involved as I am) and he usually manages to de-stress me when I obsess about animal behaviour. Basically. I fuss too much and he's too laid back so between us, we usually do ok!
When we started out with animals, years ago now, it was much as you say, plums - they were my animals and the deal was that I looked after them. Don't lose heart though for now lovely husband has a good stockman's eye, catches sheep , gives injections, drenches etc and doesn't bat an eyelid.( I had to deal with an abscess though!)
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they chatter to the kid?! oh wow! how cute is that!! is it your first time kidding then?
no had kids the last two years but this nanny is new (well got her 2 summers ago) left her empty last year as she had a ruff first kidding at her breeders. She is a very delicate flower and found it quite hard to adjust in the beginning. I had never had to rug any of the others but she needed a rug as she was cold. The others picked on her yet at her breeders she was bossy. All my goat have either been born here or come from the same breeder so I am sure all the older nannies know each other. I have put up with her high maintence ways for one simple reason.................... she is beautiful :love:
The talking to the kidds is a regular thing I have been told. My other two nannies didnt do it so havent experenced it before but as I said she is different and guess that is her way of telling me that her expanding waist is not her getting fat ;D She hasnt done it again when I have been there :(
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xmas eve I spent the morning sobbing on my very good (non-pet keeping) friend because my little girl goat had some runny poo. I have lost 2 to scour this year already so the minute I saw that, I freaked. 24 hours of no concentrate, just hay and water and a bucket of scour drink and she was 100% again but I was so worried.
Yes scour and bloat are my main concerns. I have come to the conclusion that less is more, and concentrates are the biggest cause of problems :(
Diane :wave:
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katie, your husband sounds just like my own! he is like you say, not so involved so able to take a more objective view of each of my little crisis!! he did say though that he has really enjoyed the new cockerel as he has a quirky personality and that, and this is the best bit...he is willing to help take the goats for a walk on the lead over our other field when the snow goes - yay!
Diane - I am paranoid about concentrates now. I'm sure I'm underfeeding them the dry stuff (but they get shedloads of hay) because I'm a)too scared to increase it for winter and b) convinced that I will kill the goats with it again :(
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what exactly do you give them?
concentrates I mean...
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Maintenance ration for an adult dry female is about a pound of normal/low protein goat mix, GG's are on less than that. My BT type girl gets about 300g of A&P Standard goat mix in the morning, then at lunchtime about 200g of soaked shreds with a sprinkling of seaweed also a sprinkling of goatmix, plus some carrots and apples or any other suitable fruit/veg that's around. Horse haylage (ryegrass based) in the morning, hay at lunchtime and a top up in the evening if she has finished her hay. GG's get the same , but have to share between the two, they are in the same pen.
When it is very cold in the morning they will also get another 200g or so each of warm shreds with their morning ration, as their shed is very cold.
I will start to up their ration about 8 - 6 weeks before kidding, gradually to as much as they will eat in the last week. Then the GG's will also move into seprate pens.
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I use the countrywide goat mix and they have it morning and evening. I give them about a mug full each per feed. I have given the girl some warm soaked beet shreds before but obviously avoid reggie getting to them. they have banana skins every morning (1 each), free access to hay, I also give them some veggie peelings, carrot top/tails every evening feed.
where do you get the seaweed from Anke?
If I'm not feeding enough, how gradually should I be increasing it and does that also mean the beet shreds, do they get added in small amounts to increase?
should also add - they are far from skinny either of them. not fat but their bones are nicely covered (spine well covered and they are cuddly) :)
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I buy a huge bag of seaweed powder/granules from Ascotts Smallholding. It is quite expensive, but lasts forever. I alsoadd a bit into the concentrate for the sheep. I am sure you can get smaller packs for horses, but it would work out more expensive in the long run. As long as you keep the seaweed dry, I don't think it will go off.
Once my female is coming up to six weeks prior to kidding, I start to feed three times a day, just to balance the increase out.
The BT type girl was on the following:
6 weeks to kidding - 1pound conc + sugarbeet (1 scoop, not measured)
5 weeks to kidding - the same but three meals
4 weeks to kidding - 600 g conc + shreds
3 weeks to kidding - 750 g conc
2 weeks to kidding - 1 kg conc
1 weeks to kidding - 1.2 - 1.5 kgs, but she wouldn't finish it all.
Lots of veg, anything they like at this stage, so they keep eating. the problem is that the developing kid(s) will take up a lot of space, stomach a lot smaller and the goat cannot eat large amounts in a single meal anymore - lots of food in smaller portions and often. the other danger is pregnancy toxaemia, which is when the nutrients required by the kid(s) are higher than the goat can take in in feed and these are therefore taken from her tissues (ketosis results) - sweet, acetone smelling breath and possibly also urine, goat becomes lethargic and very quickly deteriorates. If that occurs (it is quite rare, and with stepped up feeding and observing the goat during feeding it is also quickly noticed) a quick drench with glucose (I have a bottle from the vet ready - will check the tradename tomorrow - its too late now) before the vet is called can help enormously. Both of mine were totally fine last year - but I was worried for weeks before the kidding, and yes I had a set of scales in the goatshed to measure out their feed. I made a plan up for the last six weeks, and inctreased by about 20 to 30 gs per day over the two meals. In the end I left the sugarbeet shreds out, as it was quite warm by then and I thought the mix was higher protein, so better to eat that.
But I guess quite a few weeks until you get to that stage - and by then we will all be getting near to kidding.... I can't wait! First one due beg of March!
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Thanks Anke :)
I have none in kid as yet. Savannah is due in season again January 12th (ish) but I don't know what to do at the moment - might start another thread on this but I don't think our current set up is suitable to have kids eg. reggie would be on his own while she was in a seperate shed with her kids and I'd have to find a way to make them still able to see each other etc...half of me just wants to bring in a new milking goat to tide the business over for milk until I'm able to rationally work out what to do!!
I don't think my 2 are far off of the maintainance feed. I might give them some extra as a 3rd (lunch) meal during the cold weather though. will look into the seaweed. there's a couple of other goat owners nearby who might want to do a bulk buy/share with me.
the snow is thawing very quickly here - do I need to worry about the goats eating grass that has been sodden in snow now? they have loved the cold weather (weirdo's!!) but now its just slidy and muddy yuk.
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what exactly do you give them?
concentrates I mean...
from what I understand from people I have talked to every person feeds differently
my ones get a mixture of sheep mix / bran / flaked maise and soaked sugar beet. twice a day. Quantities varie. if i think i have the start of any issues everyone only gets dry or soaked sugar beet. I think i feed too much :( but some days they get carrots or bananas or something else. No two days are the same
beth you are much better than me at this. what do you feed?
Diane
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Our maintance ration for a goat that has never kidded is 1 scoop of sheep mix, with a little flaked barley added.
Milkers get more- at present we have one who is supposed to be running through (not very successfully at the moment) and she gets 1 scoop sheep mix, and 1 1/2 scoops of goat mix, plus 1/2 scoop barley. She gets that at night, and the same in the morning but with dairy nuts instead of the 1/2 scoop goat mix. The other milkers who have either dried off, or are being dried off they get 1 scoop sheep mix, 1/2 scoop goat mix, some flaked barley at night. The same in the morning, but dairy nuts instead of the 1/2 scoop goat mix.
As well as this in the winter they get an extra feed at 5pm- we rotate between soaked beetpulp, alfalfa, and chopped veg (cabbage, carrot & apple usually).
Ours aren't out at all just now- weather has been far, far too bad. Though we don't often have them out at this time of year as our ground is so wet here.
I will freely admit we do feed a lot- we feed for them to grow to their absolute full potential, and to produce as much milk as possible whilst retaining show condition. If I was keeping my goats just for the smallholding in order to produce milk etc, I wouldn't feed as much concentrated feed.
Beth