The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: HappyHippy on December 17, 2010, 12:42:09 pm
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Planning ahead (and compiling my wish list ;)) would ear tattoos work with black and/or hairy pigs ? Or would notching be better ???
I'd prefer to tattoo (and tag,obviously), but don't want to invest in all the kit if tattooing wouldn't work on Berkshires and Large Blacks (just for starters ;) ;D)
Your thoughts and advice please ;D
Thanks, Karen x
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I tag my pigs. I get 100 blank tags for about £30.0 from Tag master. They will do printed ones also but if one gets lost and the pig is pedigree then a lot of hassle to go through to give the pig another number. I have tried all colours of tatoo paste and have given up with it.
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the breeder of your gilt should ear mark it before you collect it depends on what they stipulate notching is going to be baned in the future
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Thanks Lillian, it's not for this one - it's for when she produces piglets - a long way off, I know - but I like to be organised (and budget for it !) ;)
I'm kinda glad in a way that notching is going to be stopped. It's the whole 'mutilation' aspect I don't like (plus the fact they can rip the notches and what do you do then ?) AND the system for doing it looks soooooo complicated !
But if they're banning notching are the BPA going to be happy with double tagged pigs ? (since it sounds like tattoos won't work)
Is there a dayglow ink or UV activated ink ? (just thinking out loud lol!)
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i think thats why they notch black pigs
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i cant read the tattoos on my tamworth sows after 5 mths, and thats before they got hairy. what exactly is notching? - just slicing in certain area? or do they remove flesh?
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notching is cutting notches out the ear certain bits represent different letters we tried tattoing the tamworths same problem as you different colours did not work reading with a torch did not help the hamlops are getting tattood but they are white
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I've been having a quick look on t'internet.
I see that Ketchum do a WHITE tattoo paste - has anybody tried this ? (I don't even know if you get it in the UK, it's on a canadian website) ???
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if you go on the tamworth breeders club site get the number for bill howes or if you want lillian has it he is the tattoo expert
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Great thanks, I'll give him a shout at some point ;D
On my research mission I've found dayglow and UV tattoo inks for humans - wonder if they'd work ? But I'll contact Bill and see what he says ;)
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is notching more painful than tagging - is that why it mite be banned?
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they squeel like buggery no matter what you doi
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are the pigs just being being tagged cos registered?
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Yes, princess piggy. For notching you get special pliers that basicly cut a notch out the ear (different locations for different numbers) I've not done it, so maybe it's not actually too bad ??? But I don't even like the thought of it, hence why I'm asking about UV ink for tattoos ;) ;D It's a long way off yet - I'm only collecting the weaner(s - depends how generous hubby's being with my present ;)) next week, so it'll be about a year before I actually have to do any of it myself ;)
The BPA say you have to have either notches or a tattoo PLUS a tag for pedigree pigs. I think you can double tag, but don't think they are as happy with that (more chance of losing tags etc) Oh the rules and regulations ::) ;D :wave:
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mine are reg but only tattoo... :o.... there 1 year
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I'm not hugely experienced with BPA pedigree's & stuff yet
(the Kune Kune society do everything reg wise & KK's only need 1 tag)
But I'm fairly certain that any pedigree pigs you have should have a tag and a tattoo or notches. The breeder who you bought them from should have done it. Maybe I've mis-understood the guidelines ? Somebody who knows for sure will be along in a minute ;)
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tattoo is correct for tamworths the seller should do this but there is this problem with disappearing marks tags are still acceptable
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Bill is indeed the king of Tattooing! I have 2 of his gilts both over a year old now and their tattoos are both not only visible but quite big too.
I've just done my first lot of tattooing, with green ink on Tamworths and it worked well they were all readable within a few days when the extra ink had worn off.
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Bill Howes does great tattoos - but he uses some really ancient tattoo pliers and I've searched high and low to try and find something similar.
There doesn't seem to be a great selection of pliers out there (someone please prove me wrong - I'd be delighted to find some more).
Like a lot of people, I have ones from Fearings (BPA members get a 20% discount, and they were the only ones I could find that could fit both the number and the HDL) but they're not great. The characters are very small and fiddly and I've had problems with disappearing tattoos, even after making sure to rub paste in before crunching with the pliers and rubbing in thoroughly afterwards.
Visibility is getting to be a real problem for me. As my Tamworths are outdoor pigs, their ears get freckled in the sun, which makes it more difficult to read the tattoos.
I know Bill uses Ketchums slap mark paste rather than normal tattoo paste. He reckons it's brilliant, but I haven't been able to find any online and our local agri places don't stock it.
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Hi Tudful :wave:
I found the ketchum's website and link to request a cataloge, but since it's a Canadian website I'm not sure if they'll deliver to UK ? I'll ask and maybe if anyone else is interested we could all club together and order together, it could be sent to one of us, and we could send the bits to the relevant people ?
But I'll keep looking for UK suppliers too ;)
Karen x
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well liz i will need to ask bill about his sideline??? our set is made by Arnold & sons takes 6 digits or letters circa 1950,s and we do the same as your self with cattle it was always readable
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Read in depth exactly what you are ment to for a particular breed of pig and go by whatever it says because if a pig isnt correctly marked as its ment to beas alot of hassle can start when you want to breed/ notify litters etc.. big headache!!
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We used to white tattoo paste, I think just from our local agricultural shop. It worked ok, but not fantastically well. We tried it because the Anglo-Nubian goats often have black skin, and the green didn't always last more than a couple of years. Green was fine on the pale skinned ones though.
Karen, we do have a set of tattoo pliers if you want to borrow them, we don't use them much as we have to use at least one tag for the goats, and the second ear is optional either a tattoo or a tag.
Beth
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Lilian I have just spent 5 minutes just watching your post .... ;D ;D ;D love it.
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You need to be aware of the BPA requirements. There is no provision for tattooing (even with white paste) breeds such as Large Black, Saddleback, Berkshire or Hampshire. They have to be ear notched using the system applicable to the breed (not all the same). White breeds (incl GOS) and Tamworths must be tattooed and there are requirements about what information is needed and in what ear. There is currently provision to double tag PROVIDING you get written permission from the BPA first and stick with just that one system. Note however that if you tag your pigs may not be shown in any BPA approved show. Further, there is evidence that some of the larger breeders will not buy stock that has not been correctly tattooed or notched because of the ease of fraudulent identification of pigs with tags only as they are simply replaced.
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You need to be aware of the BPA requirements. There is no provision for tattooing (even with white paste) breeds such as Large Black, Saddleback, Berkshire or Hampshire. They have to be ear notched using the system applicable to the breed (not all the same). White breeds (incl GOS) and Tamworths must be tattooed and there are requirements about what information is needed and in what ear. There is currently provision to double tag PROVIDING you get written permission from the BPA first and stick with just that one system. Note however that if you tag your pigs may not be shown in any BPA approved show. Further, there is evidence that some of the larger breeders will not buy stock that has not been correctly tattooed or notched because of the ease of fraudulent identification of pigs with tags only as they are simply replaced.
Mr Pig - help I'm confused !
I understand now that Large Blacks have to be notched instead of tattooed BUT I thought they had to have a tag AS WELL AS tattoo or notch ??? Is this not the case ? The registered large black weaners I've just got have a notch and tag - does this rule out showing for them ?
Thanks,
Karen
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no the notching for breed recognition tag for ministry or other daftie that cant reed the notching you will be fine showing them trust me
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Thanks Lillian, not that I'm planning on showing, well not yet anyway ;)
But it's just good to know what I'll need to do with the piglets in the future.
Also for anyone interested in the Ketchum stuff - I've had an email back to say they do ship to the UK, they're sending a catalouge to me and once someone's back from holiday they'll be in touch to let me know about UK distributers of their products. I'll post the info once I get it, if that's of any help ?
Karen x
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lillian is busy with turkeys she will post who she gets her tags from as to the fraud of tags even with tattoes there is fraud
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Mr Pig
you are completely wrong with your statement. The BPA papers (when you join) lets the breeder decide if they want to NOTCH or TATOO. When doing either you must have a tag also. In England they are trying to irradicate the notching as this is now seen as being cruel. Pigs MUST have tags when being shown. Iwould like to know where you are getting your information from as you are being told crap. You can contact the BPA on 01223854100 who can confirm all that I said is correct. It seems funny to me that
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Suggest you read the following pages (esp p2) from the BPA website. There is no 'option' to select tattooing or notching, you must do one or the other according to which breed you keep. Breeds that can be notched are shown in the same document. All others must be tattooed. You will also note the instruction that pigs that are tagged cannot be shown. To advise people to the contrary is irresponsible as they may go to a great deal of trouble and expense only to be turned away on arrival at the show. If you are confused over the ear marking requirements, I suggest you speak to your breed reps urgently.
http://www.britishpigs.org.uk/recordingandID.pdf
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At your suggestion, I read BPA page 2, section registered pigs. This contradicts your statement.
I am not advising people to the contrary or being irresponsible. It is the interpretation of the rules obviously sub zero temperatures are affecting not just fingers and toes.
THERE IS NO CONFUSION ON MY PART OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE INTERPRETING A DIFFERNT TAKE ON THE WORDING AND HIDING BEHIND A CLOKE OF ANINONAMINITY. HAD YOU DONE YOUR RESERCH YOU WILL SEE I AM A BREED REP FOR SCOTLAND
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From the document mentioned
"Registered pigs must be identified with ear tattoos, ear notches or double tags (one in each ear). The BPA database can hold two ID’s for each registered pig which could be a notch and a tag, a tattoo and a tag, or two tags with different numbers. Registered pigs identified with tags must be double tagged, one in each ear, the tag numbers can be the same or different. It is recommended that every registered pig should have two forms of identification recorded on the BPA database."
Tbut above that they have a wee bit that says
"The BPA recommends Tattooing or Notching for Pedigree Identification. If you opt to use tags as your only form of identification you must inform the BPA in writing and follow the rules for double tagging registered pigs. Pigs for showing must be tattooed or notched." it doesn't say they can't be tagged ???
Oh, it's almost as confusing as the notching system lol! I don't think they've made it very clear in what they've written, it could be MY frozen brain though ::)
I have emailed the large black breed rep and am patiently waiting their response ;)
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and the regulations in SCOTLAND is different to england and wales
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I was referring to official BPA Breed Reps. Are you one?
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why, are you a bpa breed rep?
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No, but I have never claimed to be one. Perhaps you'd now like to answer my question.
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i have not claimed to be a BPA REP either
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It was me that said Lillian was a breed rep - Scottish area co-ordinator for the Tamworth Breeders Club, to give her her proper title ;) not BPA (sorry if I caused confusion :-[)
But why, oh why does it have to be different up here in Scotland - it's just got me EVEN more confused ! Just as well I've got a year to figure this out ;) :wave:
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less than a year???????????????????