The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Fleecewife on February 13, 2022, 12:16:46 am

Title: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 13, 2022, 12:16:46 am
Inchconnachan is an island on Loch Lomond, uninhabited by humans but home to about 60 wallabies and ancient forest trees. It has been owned by the same family since the 1400s but was recently sold to Kirsty Young and her man. People wild camp on Inchconnachan but are usually respectful of such a beautiful place, reaching the island by boat.
Now the new owners have announced plans to 'rehome' the wallabies, build a lodge to house tourists, in the process chopping down some of the ancient trees, cut paths and lay walkways through what is a delicate ecosystem. We used to camp on the island occasionally 40 odd years ago with our family and have always respected its wildness and special place in the hearts of those who love Loch Lomond.
What a shame if it's all ruined by some celebrities with misguided ideas.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 13, 2022, 12:32:00 am
The way of the world UNFORTUNATELY: 

"What can we do to make easy money" ... "As discussed, tourism Kirsty!" ... "Yeah, I know, but there are those weird giant rats bouncing about for all to see - bouncy rats won't go down well - and those bloody trees are wind-swept, look half-dead and could obscure the view from some new crofty-lets.  Both will need to go." ... "I believe they are wallabies and those gnarled trees are actually yonks old so REALLY ?!" ... "Yeah OK, but we now own this crappy island - it's not likely to be drowned by sea-level rises in my life-time so it's surely a pretty safe bet for development rather than that wee sandy island you liked in the Caribbean with those tortoises crawling all over the beach - they almost put me off my 6 o/c "Green Turtle" cocktail at the beach shanty bar.  Did you get that cocktail recipe by the way ? "
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 13, 2022, 01:59:43 pm
 :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Oh you've really cheered me up [member=152775]arobwk[/member]
You're like the Johnny Morris of the celebrity world.
I've just been mini-trolled on facebook (I hate facebook) so I needed that laugh  :bouquet:


In fact there's a big petition in the making, especially as there is apparently an osprey nesting in one of those trees and we take our ospreys very seriously.  Loch Lomond is so important to Scots, especially those who live in Glasgow.  It's within cycling distance and has long been a place people go to get some air and greenery plus a bit of a paddle about. Inchconnachan has always been THE island you can camp on, so people tend to clear up behind themselves to keep it special, whereas the shores can become quite clarty, and the other islands are not so campable. The wallabies are not just like say a group of deer, they are amazing! So improbable. While of course they could be rehomed, that just wouldn't be the same - wallabies are specific to Loch Lomond and Inchconnachan.
I'm hopeful the various interests in stopping this naff development come together and achieve something good.

This is the link to the BEEB article:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-60319920

Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 13, 2022, 06:35:25 pm
I can't quite remember, but was it Johnny Morris who voiced the BBC's "Tales of the River Bank". I seem to think it was, but maybe not.  Confirmation anyone ?

[JM's Animal Magic was just such a fav' prog', but then Tony Hart's Vision On was a very close 2nd.  I can't remember the music score for Animal Magic, but I can just about still hum the theme tune for Vision ON and for Tales of the River Bank !  :) :) ]
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 13, 2022, 10:32:10 pm
It was a zoo thing.  We didn't have a TV so I can't remember what his programme was called, but he did the voices for all the animal antics.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Penninehillbilly on February 14, 2022, 01:11:18 am
Surely There will need to be planning permission? If people have used it as a public space for so long, that should be put forward as an objection? Hope you can manage to stop this, it would be such a shame.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: doganjo on February 14, 2022, 10:26:56 am
Planning documents said the couple’s “goal is to create a world class and beautiful place for everybody to enjoy”.

Aye if they can afford it!  It's going to be a high class holiday rental - a money maker to recoup teh £500K they bought it for!

Under the couple’s current plans, 35 trees will be cut down, including the felling of four individually surveyed trees, and the old lodge and boathouse pulled down, with a new one built with a jetty for easy access
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 14, 2022, 06:05:58 pm
There's a sly little bit in the Beeb report which says: << They also hope to remove "invasive" or "exotic" species.>>

This is to do with the Woodland Trust (I think) wanting and starting to fell beech trees from the Loch Lomond Islands because they are not native.  They may not be native, but they are beautiful and mix so well with Scots pine and oaks and have been there for a jolly long time. There was no consultation about this, just the dawning horror when the felling began. So that's why the owners think they can slip that in as a sneaky supposed brownie point.

[member=22672]Penninehillbilly[/member] this came to light because of their planning application (they bought the place a couple of years ago and there were a lot of crossed fingers backed then.  Unfortunately it needs more than crossed fingers now).  The old house that was there must by now be in a truly derelict state - it was very spooky 40 years ago  :o
I'm past my days of protesting but I support all those who are doing so, with my words if not my actions
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: mab on February 14, 2022, 06:16:05 pm
It does seem rather perverse: if you wanted to own a property in the UK that DOESN'T have wallabies,  why would you buy the one that DOES?  ???


Beside,  if they’re planning to put a tourist lodge on there you would think the wallabies would be a 'unique feature' to attract business.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 14, 2022, 08:15:14 pm
It does seem rather perverse: if you wanted to own a property in the UK that DOESN'T have wallabies,  why would you buy the one that DOES?  ???


Beside,  if they’re planning to put a tourist lodge on there you would think the wallabies would be a 'unique feature' to attract business.

You've hit the nail on the head there mab, twice  ;D
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 14, 2022, 08:35:28 pm
You'd think wouldn't you [member=2177]mab[/member], but perhaps removal of non-native fauna is a leader for chopping down (less apparent) non-native flora as well - which might just happen to obscure bedroom views of the Loch as it happens !! 

[How far does one have to go back before declaring (regionally or nationally) that something is non-native and should be eradicated? Planning advisors/consultants will have all sorts of weaselly words up their sleeve to rake in a fee.]   
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 14, 2022, 09:39:23 pm
Planning documents said the couple’s “goal is to create a world class and beautiful place for everybody to enjoy”.

Aye if they can afford it!  It's going to be a high class holiday rental - a money maker to recoup teh £500K they bought it for!

Under the couple’s current plans, 35 trees will be cut down, including the felling of four individually surveyed trees, and the old lodge and boathouse pulled down, with a new one built with a jetty for easy access

You are such a cynic [member=26320]doganjo[/member] :  Surely Kirsty will have in mind that the island should remain a community asset and that landing/berthing fees for Loch boaters and/or the cost of the new day-tripper ferry tickets will be modest.  Kirsty might even be considering putting aside a small area idc to cater for local folk who have been able to use the island for a bit of wild-camping over the years;  no doubt at a "locals'" rate per night !?  But then, in all cases. probably not !
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 14, 2022, 09:49:19 pm
<<<[How far does one have to go back before declaring (regionally or nationally) that something is non-native and should be eradicated?]>>>

According to Mr BING, Oaks, Beech, Holly and Spindle all arrived in around 4,000 BC, ie 6,000 years ago.  See the BEECH in there  :idea: So how is beech not a native?  I'm totally confused  :tired:   I know there is this thing in the UK that Beech are not native trees, and clearly the woodland trust thinks it's not native.  The last Ice Age finished about 10,000 years ago after around 100,000 years of ice cover, so ALL our flora and fauna have arrived here since then. It's so daft, isn't it?  I love Beech trees, perhaps my favourites along with Scots Pine.  I must investigate further.....

Tada!.....from BING again:<<<In recent years Beech has been considered to have somewhat of an identity crisis because scientists were unsure whether or not the species we find in Scotland was in-fact native. This is because Beech trees are naturally found only in southern parts of England. Those in Scotland – usually lining roads and avenues – were brought up in the Victorian period, and have colonised our countryside well ever since. Last year the experts finally discovered that the species growing in Scotland did originate from the UK and not mainland Europe >>>

So that's a bit late for the island beeches which have already been felled.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 15, 2022, 09:33:25 pm
Could someone kindly post the Inchconnachan planning application reference ?  (I've tried to find, but searches came up with nowt.)   
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Penninehillbilly on February 16, 2022, 12:14:14 am
https://eplanning.lochlomond-trossachs.org/OnlinePlanning/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage
Not sure if this works, I searched for 'Inchconnachan island planning' , got the local planning page and went through the search applications system.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: doganjo on February 16, 2022, 03:03:15 pm
Try this

https://eplanning.lochlomond-trossachs.org/OnlinePlanning/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

Application for
Erection of a new lodge as short-term holiday accommodation, boathouse and shelter as warden’s accommodation, plant room and stores (to replace the existing derelict lodge, boat shelter and outbuildings), new (and temporary) jetties, services, drainage, paths/ boardwalk, the demolition of existing structures/ buildings and the removal of invasive/ exotic species, the natural regeneration of the site and wet woodland/ habitat diversity.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Kev C on February 16, 2022, 04:03:19 pm
Ok folks do your research. Stirling Uni confirmed in 2017 through dna research that beech is native to Scotland and Kirsty et al are removing rhododendrons etc. The wallabies are non native and they have stated that they will rehome them not kill them. Storm in a teacup from folks with nowt much else to do.
The definition of native seems to be the hang up (oh and people with more money than you!). The "Scottish thistle" isn't native in the context that it is in fact French and so I could go on. Gorse & broom are native but invasive in Glen Affric.
I just feel that people need to hate and that is what you lot are doing.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 16, 2022, 10:15:29 pm
Thanks kindly for offering the link to local planning:  unfortunately link didn't work !!  HOWEVER another search has I believe finally found the relevant application - ref 2021/0452/DET with alternative ref being 100513804-001.  Am about to read through.
[Am already finding that many listed PA doc's are unavailable to view for whatever reason !!]
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Penninehillbilly on February 16, 2022, 11:58:17 pm
It's interesting my link worked last night, but not today, same with doganjo's link. Wonder if they've changed something? For some strange reason.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 17, 2022, 12:27:56 am
It's interesting my link worked last night, but not today, same with doganjo's link. Wonder if they've changed something? For some strange reason.


Both say 'server error'.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: doganjo on February 17, 2022, 03:43:09 pm
This link works perfectly, but if you try it  from tomorrow (Friday, 17/2/22)  it asks for the name again as it is time linked

https://eplanning.lochlomond-trossachs.org/OnlinePlanning/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 17, 2022, 05:21:27 pm
This link works perfectly, but if you try it  from tomorrow (Friday, 17/2/22)  it asks for the name again as it is time linked

https://eplanning.lochlomond-trossachs.org/OnlinePlanning/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage (https://eplanning.lochlomond-trossachs.org/OnlinePlanning/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage)

I've now used that link to see if it gave me access to doc's I could not access before: link works, but I've yet to test whether I can now view all listed PA documents.  Task for later.
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 18, 2022, 08:06:44 pm
Seems to me that some listed, but previously unavailable docs are now available to download.  So many referenced doc's in all;  the applicants have clearly spared no effort nor cost in presentation of their case for planning app'  !!
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 18, 2022, 11:32:23 pm
I can't get the links to work  ::)
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: doganjo on February 19, 2022, 01:08:15 pm
https://eplanning.lochlomond-trossachs.org/OnlinePlanning/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=R3W3THSIGRG00&activeTab=summary

If you get to teh planning website scroll down and it will ask for teh name - type in inchconnochan
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 19, 2022, 06:22:54 pm
Thanks Doganjo it worked fine this time  8)


What jumped out straight away from this remarkably thin document was "Environmental Assessment requested" - NO


NO??? Surely that little island of all places needs an environmental assessment followed by a whole load of action?
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 19, 2022, 10:45:02 pm
Not overly experienced ref' Environmental Assessments, but I seem to think it has been deemed that the various assessments available cover environmental assessment parameters !??
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: Fleecewife on February 20, 2022, 12:37:59 pm
Why would they mention it separately if it is not a separate entity/requirement?  I think an environmental assessment covers stuff normal assessments cannot reach!
Title: Re: Inchconnachan
Post by: arobwk on February 20, 2022, 06:38:27 pm
Why would they mention it separately if it is not a separate entity/requirement?  I think an environmental assessment covers stuff normal assessments cannot reach!

All of my previous joshing apart, I would say the Jones' have covered many angles with their various "professional" surveys and that's why, I assume, the planning authority accepts that an Environmental Assessment has been covered by the various documents submitted under other names.