The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: gemma.smith90 on March 21, 2021, 08:26:39 am
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We are looking at buying a perfect cottage in a small village in Cornwall, but the garden is really small!
I've contacted the local farmer to look at buying part of his field because we've read that you can convert fields to garden (https://www.beechplanning.co.uk/agricultural-land-to-residential.html (https://www.beechplanning.co.uk/agricultural-land-to-residential.html)); does anyone have experience of this?
We don't want to buy the cottage if we can't extend the garden. We want to retain most of the field to run a small market garden/ small holding.
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
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You can just purchase a field, and the council may slap an agricultural condition on it (which it may already have anyway) and then you can use it as a veg/flower growing area, but you would have to keep the fence up and leave it as a separate entity. If you "annex" it to your private garden it would entail a change of use and these are difficult to get (for a reason - you may just want to buy land cheap and then built/develop on it). For the same reason the farmer (in the unlikely event of him/her selling you the land in the first place) would (and should) put an "uplift" clause on it.
Not sure how easy it would be to put the likes of polytunnels and other farm buildings on it, same with water connection.
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Are the rules the same both north and south of the border, Anke?
I imagine the biggest obstacle would be persuading any farmer to sell land, good luck with that.
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A field, any field, is agricultural land requiring PP for change of use to a garden. (Local Council doesn't need to slap an agricultural condition on it: it is de facto.)
Perhaps you should look elsewhere @gemma.smith90 - I hear there are lots of lovely places in the UK other than Cornwall !!
Maybe you can find cottage with more extensive garden and/or attached land (not dependent on a neighbour farmer selling you a bit) elsewhere at a nice price ?! Any attached agri' land would still be subject to PP for garden use no matter where you are. I would add that Cornwall Council planners might be useless at stopping good green fields being turned into housing estates, BUT they are very hot on preventing minor intrusions into the Cornish landscape! Doesn't make a whole load of sense across the board, but that's how it is.
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From my experience you'd need planning permission to change use from an agricultural field to a garden anywhere in the countryside not just Cornwall.
There is a possibility of putting up 'moveable' structures on agricultural/pasture land as they certainly won't let you put permanent structures up if they're not there already but it's not easy to sort that. Some people try it by putting some kind of metal runners on the bottom of their new outbuildings for stock e.g. for shelter for instance which can, in theory, be moved......Not sure what the situation is regarding polytunnels.
And agree it's getting the farmer to sell you some land that will be the first big hurdle :thinking:
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Poly-tunnels = planning application. Not sure what happens with commercial strawberry growers (and similar) who need to move their tunnels every now and then to avoid disease issues, but they probably need to notify planners for permitted development acceptance.
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From my experience you'd need planning permission to change use from an agricultural field to a garden anywhere in the countryside not just Cornwall.
There is a possibility of putting up 'moveable' structures on agricultural/pasture land as they certainly won't let you put permanent structures up if they're not there already but it's not easy to sort that. Some people try it by putting some kind of metal runners on the bottom of their new outbuildings for stock e.g. for shelter for instance which can, in theory, be moved......Not sure what the situation is regarding polytunnels.
And agree it's getting the farmer to sell you some land that will be the first big hurdle :thinking:
No you do not need planning permission to grow food on your smallholding/field - even if it is next to your house/garden - as long as you leave the fence up and keep it under separate title deeds - you can run a smallholding from it. We bought our land next to the building plot - yes it had a section 75 slapped on by the council, but the only limitations are that we cannot graze horses by themselves or run a livery business from it. We also did not need planning permision to put any of our buildings on it - it has a commercial sized polytunnel and our goat sheds on. We do not run our smallholding as a business, though of course CPH number etc are all in place. Unless you are in a National Park/conservation area you normally do not need PP for a polytunnel, though the council likes you to submit one (and pay for it...).
But getting someone to sell you agricultural land, esp if next to your house/building plot is not easy, and definitely not cheap.
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Poly-tunnels: go check !! I believe @Anke you are out of date on this matter.
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[ Are you getting the gist @gemma.smith90 ? It's not simple! ]
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[ Are you getting the gist @gemma.smith90 ? It's not simple! ]
I think we've scared her off :innocent:
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We had a farmer in the village in England who split up a field and sold the parts to the adjoining houses to extend their gardens. Of course no-one realised the problems it would cause them because, as said, it was agricultural land and the Council subsequently refused to allow change of use. The original boundaries had to remain, no 'domestic' items like sheds, greenhouses and benches were allowed and the grass could only be cut twice a year. For one poor person it became a major liability and they couldn't sell their house until the issues were resolved, which to my knowledge they never were.
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Poly-tunnels: go check !! I believe @Anke you are out of date on this matter.
No I am not. But as you obviously know better, I don't see the point of contributing to the thread anymore. Btw, we have also recently put up a Keder greenhouse, again no planning was required.
The original poster was asking if you could run a garden - I understood probably for food produciton as she asked on a smallholder forum - and as long as you keep the property under separate title deeds there is nothing the planning department can do to stop you running it as a smallholding, in particular growing fruit and veg. Movable poultry structures would also not be a problem, you can set up an orchard etc etc. Unless the whole of Cornwall is now a National Park, you can also put up a Polytunnel, but of course telling "incomers" you can't may just put them off... which is what your previous post was all about.
We have done the above route successfully. People are buying fields everywhere to run as smallholdings. You are just incredibly lucky if you can do so with the field next to your house. Even easier actually if the field is agricultural.
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Exactly. A smallholding/allotment where you grow vegetables keep chickens or even just grow an orchard of fruit trees comes under the label of "agriculture" anyway, so you would not have to change any planning.
If you buy the land you just need to erect a nice fence and start growing something - even grass for hay for pet rabbits!
The only issue is you are not allowed to build a house on it without long and expensive planning etc.
You can put up a tool shed with no problems though, and a polytunnel UP TO A CERTAIN SIZE with no problems
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"Certain size" @macgro7 - do you know what size ?
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Poly-tunnels: go check !! I believe @Anke you are out of date on this matter.
No I am not. But as you obviously know better, I don't see the point of contributing to the thread anymore. Btw, we have also recently put up a Keder greenhouse, again no planning was required.
The original poster was asking if you could run a garden - I understood probably for food produciton as she asked on a smallholder forum - and as long as you keep the property under separate title deeds there is nothing the planning department can do to stop you running it as a smallholding, in particular growing fruit and veg. Movable poultry structures would also not be a problem, you can set up an orchard etc etc. Unless the whole of Cornwall is now a National Park, you can also put up a Polytunnel, but of course telling "incomers" you can't may just put them off... which is what your previous post was all about.
We have done the above route successfully. People are buying fields everywhere to run as smallholdings. You are just incredibly lucky if you can do so with the field next to your house. Even easier actually if the field is agricultural.
Anke - I do not think I know better; I am simply offering my understanding of planning requirements. For goodness sake and for our benefit, please don't turn off. If you know different, my (and other's) ears will be fully open.
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"Certain size" @macgro7 - do you know what size ?
I don't remember exactly unfortunately - it would have to be verified.
I bought a 10 metre long polytunnel on ebay and put it up in my city garden. Actually I joined to it the one I already had - now it's 16 metres long, by 3 metres wide and 2 metres high.
They relaxed planning laws recently - even before you could put a 12' shed in your garden and now make an extension to your house without planning permission or notification.
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This is on Northern Polytunnels website -
"Planning Guidelines for Polytunnels
Polytunnels generally do not require planning permission so long as they meet the following criteria:
The polytunnel should not be taller than 3 metres.
You should only use the polytunnel for domestic use
The polytunnel should not be nearer to the road than it is to the nearest part of your house
The site you wish to place your polytunnel should not have a listed building, or be an area of Natural Outstanding Beauty.
The polytunnel should take up less than 50% of the garden surrounding the house. In Scotland this figure is 30%.
The above list should give you a good idea of where to place your polytunnel to avoid having to seek planning permission. However, it’s always a good idea to phone your local planning office if you’re at all unsure.
Please note, these regulations don’t cover commercial polytunnels, or polytunnels that will be used for commercial purposes. If you’re planning on installing a commercial polytunnel it’s important that you look into how planning regulations may affect your proposals."
This is the link to their commercial polytunnels - https://www.northernpolytunnels.co.uk/commercial-range.html
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Planning officers charge £1000 for "pre advice" ;)
At least they wanted that from us.
Better to have friends working for the council or ring the polytunnel company - they will know all the rules.
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I believe this Herefordshire Council guide is worth a read:
https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/downloads/file/14577/polytunnels_planning_guide_2018.pdf (https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/downloads/file/14577/polytunnels_planning_guide_2018.pdf)
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Planning officers charge £1000 for "pre advice" ;)
At least they wanted that from us.
Better to have friends working for the council or ring the polytunnel company - they will know all the rules.
What development were you proposing @macgro7 - The Small-holder's Polytunnel University ? Lol
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We were enquiring about a property for sale - it was just an empty 12 acre field right next to housing estate - we just wanted to ask if we were permitted to build a single house - for ourselves.
They wanted £1000 to just speak to us - before we even own the land.
I'd rather start smoking :roflanim:
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We were enquiring about a property for sale - it was just an empty 12 acre field right next to housing estate - we just wanted to ask if we were permitted to build a single house - for ourselves.
They wanted £1000 to just speak to us - before we even own the land.
I'd rather start smoking :roflanim:
Better to talk to a private planning individual who would give you an hour's professional advice, unbiased by possible local council prejudices, for @£100.
But realistically macgro - I would have thought that if there were even the slightest chance of planning, it would have been snapped up instantly.
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We were enquiring about a property for sale - it was just an empty 12 acre field right next to housing estate - we just wanted to ask if we were permitted to build a single house - for ourselves.
They wanted £1000 to just speak to us - before we even own the land.
I'd rather start smoking :roflanim:
Better to talk to a private planning individual who would give you an hour's professional advice, unbiased by possible local council prejudices, for @£100.
But realistically macgro - I would have thought that if there were even the slightest chance of planning, it would have been snapped up instantly.
Oh it was. There was a deadline for submitting offers. It was bought by a large garden plant nursery right next door.
Perhaps not now, but in 20, 30 years it will be worth millions. We made and offer of £260k - asking price was £180k. We didn't get it.
It was in a fantastic location - one side bordering the city of Leicester, on the other side another housing estate belonging to Market Harborough Council (I.e. outside the city), and The mentioned nursery.