The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: JR_Hunt on December 09, 2020, 11:11:17 am
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Hi everyone,
Hope you can help with a dilemma I have. Back in February I committed to purchasing two 3month miniture breed pigs after doing lots of research, building a house and fencing off a piece of unused land including a section of woods for them. I wanted two castrated boars as I researched that they are best around kids. The breeder said he could not get them castrated and that I would need get it done myself.
Then lockdown happened and I could not get the pigs due to travel restrictions until June making them 7-8 months old. They were big and strong (still not labrador size) but totally not used to human contact. I rang the vet about castration but he advised not to do it until later in the year due fly strike.
They are still quite aggressive and I would not leave my kids anywhere near them on their own. My dilemma is should I get them castrated and hope that calms them down and they might become more like pets or is it too late for them and should I sell them on and start again but this time with piglets that I can start handling early.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks a lot
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Would you ever trust them around your children even after you have them castrated, The breeder should have had them done when they were young. Bigger job now and they may not change. Any males we have had were castrated before we bought them at 8wks old and they were very sweet boys. Your pigs are nearer adult.
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I echo sabrina above. Castration now will be both costly and risky. I'm not sure who will take two boars on and you might have no option other than eat them or sell at market. Pigs are generally not aggressive, although you don't define your experience. Having kept many pigs I can't say I have ever had an aggressive one. The odd nipper and those who are not so respectful but never aggressive and if they were they would be in the freezer. Pig bites are nasty. They are all however extremely strong and not always careful around big people never mind little people. Not sure how old your children are but I wouldn't leave small children alone with any animal.
You call them minature breed pigs but generally pet pigs are just a mixture.
Next time maybe consider Kune Kune's and buy from a reputable breeder who will make sure you get what you want. Not sure where you are but livestock can still be bought and sold during lockdown.
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Not worth the risk, can't possibly be worth the risk! Sausages and bacon, and try again after this madness settles down, and insist on buying castrated (and healed) weaners or not buying anything. No reputable producer will have any problem with that.
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. I guess I was hoping to have built a better bond with them at this stage. They are quite snappy when I'm in there cleaning them out and feeding them. I'll definitely take on board what you have said. Thanks again
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Dont buy 'mini' pigs .... buy a real breed so you know what is likely full size and temperament .... smaller isn't cuddlier! a snappy Jack Russel is far worse than a docile Labrador!
I'd second Kune Kune .... not too big ... ensure castrated just after birth .... then handle handle handle!!!
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I echo sabrina above. Castration now will be both costly and risky. I'm not sure who will take two boars on and you might have no option other than eat them or sell at market. Pigs are generally not aggressive, although you don't define your experience. Having kept many pigs I can't say I have ever had an aggressive one. The odd nipper and those who are not so respectful but never aggressive and if they were they would be in the freezer. Pig bites are nasty. They are all however extremely strong and not always careful around big people never mind little people. Not sure how old your children are but I wouldn't leave small children alone with any animal.
My job is working with pigs. You get some very nice friendly pigs and some nasty ones. We've had boars come onto the farm at 9 months old and been on the very next lorry off it because they were nasty and dangerous. At that age they are becoming mature and full of hormones. I've been bitten on the hand by a sow and was then grabbed by the leg and thrown by her like a rag doll. The mark on my leg lasted for 6 months. They are VERY strong animals. Even the youngster can knock you about. I'm over 80+kg (13st) and regularly get knocked about by the pigs. Now imagine a small child. Doesn't even bare thinking about.
I would cut your loss, fill your freezer and buy some more from 8 weeks as mentioned.
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I echo sabrina above. Castration now will be both costly and risky. I'm not sure who will take two boars on and you might have no option other than eat them or sell at market. Pigs are generally not aggressive, although you don't define your experience. Having kept many pigs I can't say I have ever had an aggressive one. The odd nipper and those who are not so respectful but never aggressive and if they were they would be in the freezer. Pig bites are nasty. They are all however extremely strong and not always careful around big people never mind little people. Not sure how old your children are but I wouldn't leave small children alone with any animal.
My job is working with pigs. You get some very nice friendly pigs and some nasty ones. We've had boars come onto the farm at 9 months old and been on the very next lorry off it because they were nasty and dangerous. At that age they are becoming mature and full of hormones. I've been bitten on the hand by a sow and was then grabbed by the leg and thrown by her like a rag doll. The mark on my leg lasted for 6 months. They are VERY strong animals. Even the youngster can knock you about. I'm over 80+kg (13st) and regularly get knocked about by the pigs. Now imagine a small child. Doesn't even bare thinking about.
I would cut your loss, fill your freezer and buy some more from 8 weeks as mentioned.
Have I been lucky and you drew the short straw alang? :relief:
I hope JR_Hunt that you are not put off pigs. Your current situation, as you realise, isn't ideal. We finish entire boars and sell as weaners for smallholders to finish but as you have already worked out for your situation castrates would be better and get them earlier.
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I don't determine it as unlucky/lucky. Just the fact that i am working with 900+ pigs in single farrowing paddocks and dry paddocks of up to 33. So at some point you are going to get a bash from a pig that is wanting it's food or running from another pig via you.
My big incident happened when the sow had just farrowed. I initially put it down to her being grumpy and sore from the farrowing. But her aggression lasted 3 weeks (with other people being attacked too) so she was culled after being weaned. No place for a dangerous pig on a farm/smallholding.
In saying that i have a number of pigs on the farm that love nothing more then a good scratch on the head and neck.
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It was a tongue in cheek comment alang. As you say you work on a much larger unit than most smallholders would be dealing with and that will increase risk. It doesn't mean everything is roses in a smaller operation as the OP has shown.
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No place for a dangerous pig on a farm/smallholding.
Totally agree, same goes with cattle and sheep! We've had nasty tups, cows that have been kept because "fabulous lambs" or "but she throws beautiful calves" says mum!
Sod that! My life's worth more! Cows that turns psycho when calves are gone and the tup got a cattle prod, only because it was the ONLY way I could get away from him, me stuck in middle of field holding him back is scary! Thank God for mobile phones! He might have been stocky but he could run faster than me and a texel tup in full charge is not a nice sight! He went!
Junipers 1st calve, we considerd keeping her until she intentionally squashed me. Mum didn't believe me even when I played back the footage! (She was in her stall on cctv!) Said there was no way "it could hurt". Vet was here for premovement TB jab within the week! Why? She did it to mum!
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Vet was here for premovement TB jab within the week! Why? She did it to mum!
So, wait... you sold a known dangerous animal alive? She'd have been straight into the freezer for me.
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Vet was here for premovement TB jab within the week! Why? She did it to mum!
So, wait... you sold a known dangerous animal alive? She'd have been straight into the freezer for me.
Oh wow! I so totally agree. Especially something as big as a cow. I once had a magnificent pedigree Hereford bull. I'd had him since a yearling and we got some fantastic calves off him. But as he approached 3 years he got increasingly territorial and would eye you up, snort, start pawing the ground and move rapidly towards you. He was worth a lot as a breeding bull but I wasn't keeping anything that big that I couldn't trust. Nor could I live with myself if I sold him on and he killed someone. So he went straight to the meat market. He fetched a third of his value as a breeding bull. But what price a life??
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Vet was here for premovement TB jab within the week! Why? She did it to mum!
So, wait... you sold a known dangerous animal alive? She'd have been straight into the freezer for me.
Calm down!
Jelly was 10 month old, tied in the stall, it's a double with wheely bins in the 2nd stall to hold hay. Though tied, she could swing her butt around, which she did, pushing me into the bins. Telling her to shift her butt, or move to the left, she wouldn't listen. The others did and still do know their left's and rights! We didn't need the meat and we didn't consider her dangerous, just disobedient and not staying! The chap who buys my cattle bought her, reared her and she was done for meat Christmas 2017. I went to see her and when I spoke, she walked straight to the fence to me.
I would NEVER keep a nasty animal. I have been sold nasty buggers (not been told they are nasty) and when they've calved had the shock of my life. I would have culled, but another breeder bought them as he's used to this kind (British White), have already declared this in a previous post months ago. Vet was involved. I've had "smallholders" who insist they are "experts, been doing it for years" sell dangerous Dexters! So far 2 breeds I won't touch with a barge pole, Dexters, British White Cattle and Limousins crosses!!, So 3 breeds!
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I don't determine it as unlucky/lucky. Just the fact that i am working with 900+ pigs in single farrowing paddocks and dry paddocks of up to 33. So at some point you are going to get a bash from a pig that is wanting it's food or running from another pig via you.
My big incident happened when the sow had just farrowed. I initially put it down to her being grumpy and sore from the farrowing. But her aggression lasted 3 weeks (with other people being attacked too) so she was culled after being weaned. No place for a dangerous pig on a farm/smallholding.
In saying that i have a number of pigs on the farm that love nothing more then a good scratch on the head and neck.
I totally agree, when I was on the breeder unit grumpy newly farrowed sows need one eye on them at all times.
very few were persistent problems that bore a grudge but when they did they were gone asap.
The rest as alang says love a bit of attention either a scratch , rub and talking to, although never trust them 100%
For my own pigs I always have as much contact with them as early as possible and play and train with them,
However, they can be too playful and over exuberant !
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! So far 2 breeds I won't touch with a barge pole, Dexters, British White Cattle and Limousins crosses!!, So 3 breeds!
I'm going to stand up for Dexters here ..... mine can be fed by hand .... yes they are livelier than my shetlands ... but it is they way they are handled (or not) not the breed
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There may also be a strain thing there, [member=26580]Backinwellies[/member], do you think? In that some Dexters are run as pure sucklers, and a suckler cow's job is to look after her calf, ideally in the context of a relatively self-sufficient herd. So a good suckler cow is often fairly independant-minded, putting her and her calf's safety above any other consideration. (Bit like a hill ewe.) Whereas a dairy cow - or a house or crofter's cow - is bred for docility and biddability. Even if she gets to rear her calf, she is expected to look to her human staff to meet her needs, and to expect them to keep her and her calf safe.
So a Dexter from a pure suckler herd may be a more aloof and independent animal than one from a smallholding where they get milked? I have certainly seen that with Galloways. Some - most, up where I was in the North of England and across the border, actually - seem to be pretty much semi-feral, and that is consistent with doing their job out on the fells, moorlands and hills. But I met others who are housed over winter, some were milked, and they were as handlable and soppy as any Jersey.
And perhaps the same could be true with some Shetlands. I did actually explore getting Shetlands for us here when Hillie died, but our local breeder runs hers as a pure suckler herd, and although she was confident she could pick us quiet ones, she couldn't vouch for whether they would settle into a dairy routine.
Oh, and the first time I had to hold a 5-day-old calf down while its eartags were put in, was in front of its British White mother, who didn't know me from Adam (although she did know the person wielding the taggers.) My accomplice told me that the cow would be fine, and she was.