The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: SallyintNorth on December 06, 2020, 12:44:32 pm
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A bit of advice please folks.
We are thinking we might get geese, not sure yet if purely meat birds for Christmas or an egg-laying flock with a brood each year for meat, or what.
What I'm trying to establish at the mo is how to estimate how much land they will use / how many we could have on the land available. And what to expect in terms of how much feed we would need to buy in to augment the grass they eat. Birds per acre or bird equivalents to sheep would be equally useful! lol. (Our sheep are Shetland crosses, in size I guess similar to Swaledales. Quite a bit smaller and lighter on the ground than Ryelands or commercials, but definitely not as thrifty as pure Shetland or other northern short-tailed primitives.)
As a general rule, we like our animals to be happy, free-ranging, fed as natural and close to organic a diet as possible, as far as is realistic and practical on a smallholding where the output is for our own use. We are not registered organic and do not intend to be so, but do try to minimise chemicals etc. We do select feeds for non-GM, non-imported if possible, and farmed with environmental sensitivity. (So we use Smallholder Range products for our chickens, ducks and pigs.)
We do have a slight / occasional fox issue, so the geese would be nearest the farm village with a stock fence between them and the foxes' preferred duck-snatching grounds.
We would probably let the chickens, peacocks and ducks range the same area in practise, but I am just wanting to do a basic "have we got enough ground / how many birds of what type we can have" analysis at present.
Any other advice or insights also very much welcomed. Geese virgins here!
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Found some government figures. 4 geese per commercial breeding ewe, that sound about right?
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Found some government figures. 4 geese per commercial breeding ewe, that sound about right?
That was my thought. My geese (6) have 10 acres but they don't go very far.
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We gave up on our geese last year - unreliable in the fertility department(the male), 8unreliable in the hatching department (the female kept crushing the eggs), unreliable in the rearing goslings department (both).... we also struggled to incubate successfully (even running the incubator dry in a modern dry house wasn'tenough to prevent "dead/drowned in the shell")... so we have now got ducks and hopefully they are a bit more successul.
If you have a source of day-olds within reasonable distance you have a much better chance of getting your Xmas dinner raised...
Sorry that doesn't answer your question at all.
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Sorry that doesn't answer your question at all.
But it's very useful input! Thanks. My gut feel was start with rearing a few for the table and see how that goes. We already have ducks and hens for eggs, but no meat birds.
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Sorry that doesn't answer your question at all.
But it's very useful input! Thanks. My gut feel was start with rearing a few for the table and see how that goes. We already have ducks and hens for eggs, but no meat birds.
When we managed to hatch goslings, (or removed from the goose as soon as they hatched) we raised them easily - under lamp with greens (dandelions) bought in from day two or so onwards and as soon as possible outside in an ex-kiddy/baby play pen (with wire mesh round the sides and above - crows!) on grass, back into house/under lamp overnight. When I was growing up my auntie raised batches for Xmas from day-olds . they got fed on finely chopped nettles/dandelions/mashed bread in milk all mixed up when young, then moved onto grass and wheat (in the afternoon) as soon as they were too big (fully feathered up) for the crows to eat. Buckets of water to dunk their heads in. We have raised our more recently on duck/poultry grower plus grain in the field, moving electric poultry netting every few days.
It is the incubating and hatching that is difficult, raising them is fairly easy.
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Found some government figures. 4 geese per commercial breeding ewe, that sound about right?
Something like that - 4-6 geese per sheep.
But of course that is only in summer if you feeding them hardly anything else than good short grass.
I have around 0.5 acre of grass (most of it is lawn really. And at one point I had 9 geese and never had to mow the grass for the season. Thats in summer. In winter they would try to dig out the roots.
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I usually have around 6 on an acre, but that also has goats, horses and/or sheep on too (not at the same time) and lack of grass has never been an issue.
I have also had big problems hatching them. I have an elderly pair of Embden that are fantastic parents and will foster any 4 week old goslings and rear them. The fertility of that pair has always been suspect though, only half eggs were fertile. The goose had a habit of crusing the eggs as they hatched, then didn't move off the nest so the few goslings that did hatch had to find the food by themselves or starve.. Its pretty impossible trying to top up food and water right next to the nest when you have an angry gander protecting it..
I gave up in the end!
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Found some government figures. 4 geese per commercial breeding ewe, that sound about right?
Yes, from my experience that sounds there or thereabouts. Perhaps four per small ewe and six per big ewe with lambs?
We ate all our geese prior to the last bird flu lockdown :( . The plan had been to hatch their eggs and raise goslings on good grass all summer, and then put them in the freezer in the Autumn, but despite good fertility we always had truly awful hatch rates (don't know why). The geese themselves had even worse hatch rates though, so I'm blaming them!
In the end, the whole thing just became a non-productive farce, (and nobody liked the taste of the eggs either) so when faced with lockdown a few years ago we decided enough was enough. If it were me in your situation Sally, I'd keep turkeys instead!
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I was attacked by a goose owned by a friend of my Grandpa, when i was four, and I have never forgotten it. The unfortunate thing is when my daughter was born I completely forgot it's name when we named her Sarah :yuck:
I have no idea why anyone would want to keep geese at all. They are horrible nasty things and chase me anytime I get within half a mile of any. I hate them. :coat:
I ;ove all animals and birds, even ugly ones. But I HATE geese!!! :innocent:
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Nooooooo - geese are lovely, intelligent and inquisitive. Goslings are the best babies ever - fluffy and adorable for weeks unlike chicks. I always hatch them in an incubator and hand rear them and they are a delight to have around.
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"Good morning sheep"
"Baaa. Good morning Womble!"
"Good morning ducks"
"Quack quack - a muddy puddle! how terribly exciting!"
"Good morning hens"
"Cluck cluck, superb scratching weather, ain't it?"
"Good morning geese"
"F*** OFF, WE HATE YOU, AND WE HOPE YOU DIE!!!"
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"Good morning sheep"
"Baaa. Good morning Womble!"
"Good morning ducks"
"Quack quack - a muddy puddle! how terribly exciting!"
"Good morning hens"
"Cluck cluck, superb scratching weather, ain't it?"
"Good morning geese"
"F*** OFF, WE HATE YOU, AND WE HOPE YOU DIE!!!"
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
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Start with table birds. If you want eggs save a couple of them if not kill them all. Grass is good in spring, summer. winter is low quality so kill in December restock in spring. Couple of bags of growers pellets in first few weeks then just grass till November them finisher pellets till killed, good luck plucking them. My geese are big they hiss etc but never go for me, I think they can smell fear, (I think they can detect doganjo s fear) be dominant get a Shepard’s Crook. Only a bit more aggressive defending their goslings but you won’t have any in the first year. Not good mothers until they are about 3 year old. Low disease no spider mite etc. I think you will loose them all if you don’t electric fence. No need for electric net use horse white tape. 3 strands at different heights another one a foot away to stop fox getting near the other 3. I think it’s difficult to sell for profit use for own consumption. In my area I can buy a 3 month old gosling or adult for £10 at auction Get some
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"Good morning sheep"
"Baaa. Good morning Womble!"
"Good morning ducks"
"Quack quack - a muddy puddle! how terribly exciting!"
"Good morning hens"
"Cluck cluck, superb scratching weather, ain't it?"
"Good morning geese"
"F*** OFF, WE HATE YOU, AND WE HOPE YOU DIE!!!"
Are you nit a fun of geese then? :roflanim:
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Geese were my only birds that i felt hard to dispatch...
Chickens are just chickens, but geese are much more personable - look at their beautiful blue eyes.
They taste fantastic though :innocent:
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Are you nit a fun of geese then? :roflanim:
Actually, I really am!
As somebody who worries too much about other people's opinions of me, geese are refreshingly honest. You always know where you stand with a goose. I should be more goose.
My favourite was of course Gandalf the gander. "You shall not pass"..... ;D
I also loved their first run up and down the fence line every morning - taxiing and stretching their wings. The best part was when a gust of wind would catch one unawares and sail it up and over the fence, but of course it couldn't then figure out how to get back.
The worst part was when they ate their house from the inside out, followed by a dozen newly planted apple trees and the electrics on the sheep trailer.
I'm not saying we'll never have geese again - only that they don't fit in with our current system. One day, I would like to buy a Sebastapol goose and then dye it bright yellow, so it looks like Big Bird from Sesame Street.
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Exactly the same experience here im afraid :roflanim:
I was at work once, and got a phone call from my wife who got a phone call from a lady who loves one street behind us saying my geese - all 9. Went for a walkabout and are all on that street next to the ladies garage! They were very naughty - and obviously debarked all of my newly planted (or the season or 2 before) very expensive fruit trees.
Someone mentioned they wouldn't last with the fox - my experience is very different actually. Once fox broke into the poultry run at night - killed all chickens and ducks - but not muscovy drake or the geese.
I loved ? my geese... unfortunately they do need quite a bit of space. If someone has a mature fruit orchard (or at least young trees with high guards) they would be fantastic.
Another option is if you rotate pasture with sheep I would follow them with geese.
Goose is the best roast ever - much superior to muscovy ducks, commercial white duck or chickens.
Did you know Poland produces around 90% of geese in the entire Europe? Yet hardly any of those geese are eaten in Poland - the vast majority goes to Germany from Christmas market. All Germans eat goose for Christmas it used to be like that here until victorian times.
(In Poland people have fish for Christmas btw)
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For our fourth Christmas here, Mrs Womble surprised me with a four-bird roast, all done with birds from our own smallholding, that she found in the bottom of the freezer. Duck inside chicken inside turkey inside goose. It was amazing!
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We bought a pair of Shetland geese a few years back. Our intention was to sell on youngstock to nearby smallholders, a sort of swap ring to keep unrelated pairs for us all and to sell. That didn't work - we had been assured that they didn't fly - they did fly, some forever. We were also told we were unlikely to breed many successfully. However, in their first season, the goose Minerva laid ten eggs in a lovely straw nest in their garden shed home, and was guarded fiercely by Magnus the gander. Actually she laid more than that but we took some but discovered we didn't really like eating them, so left them in peace to hatch the rest. The result can be seen on our website - nine lovely fluffy ducklings with two so attentive parents. Beautiful and heartwarming to watch. No-one in our 'circle' had any to swap. Well one did but then she gave up and returned the gander she had from us. When that gander came home some months later, the rest of the family went crazy greeting him, the return of the wanderer. For anyone who thinks geese are not fully sentient that was an object-lesson!
Of the nine hatchlings, seven were male, two were female and we sold one of those. The returnee Malcolm was so well marked and was clearly madly in love with his sister Maisie that we kept those two. A friend killed five for us, with Mr F's help, but he found it truly traumatic so we came to the conclusion that we couldn't let them breed again because any offspring would have to be slaughtered. Muscoveys have beautiful angel wings, but white geese have even more beautiful and huge angel wings.
So now we have a family of four very closely attached geese. The ganders are a bit protective when the geese are nesting, and used to go for us (a gander hanging off your bum by a pair of molegrips really hurts!) and the dogs, but they don't do so now. One thing with geese is they really will take a telling - watching Mr F give them a tongue-lashing and their sorrowful and apologetic looks are hilarious.
They watch the wild geese fly over, and sometimes call to them, but clearly they prefer where they live. After all they have a flock each of hens and sheep to boss around.
Don't expect a whole load of eggs - they are very seasonal layers, and if you want your geese for meat, expect many objections from your community members. Ours live here with no duties at all, just to keep us entertained.
They sleep in a shed at night and are readily trained to go to bed on command (remember geese used to be walked a hundred miles to market at one time)
No answer to your question of how many geese to the acre. They certainly make some inroads into the grass here and they bath in the sheep's water which means a lot of changing (in spite of a pond plus a dog pool of fresh water) As with pigs, for us geese are too individual and full of character to kill for meat, but they do make good companions for a quiet chat :innocent:
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I had a couple. Strange beasts compared to other poultry. One time as I was collecting the eggs (me heavily pregnant I’ll add) the gander flew at me so hard I fell forward and ended up in their hut with the door shut behind me. And the bugger hissing at me through the cracks. Eventually he backed off enough for me to crawl out. I liked them but too aggressive for having around toddlers. Good luck with them x
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My auntie had a massive bruise on her thigh - gander.
Ny greatgrandmother said when she used to go to school (1920-30s) she used to grab neighbours gander by the neck, push him away and run. Geese used to graze on then road verges - there was hardly any cars those days.
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Reading these replies it appears they attack women. My wife is scared of them, geese seem to sense fear. They hiss and threaten me but I face up to them, no problems.
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I was four. I adore ALL animals, always have. I had no fear of anything whatsoever - until that damned goose chased me. :roflanim: I was innocently playing in a hotel back yard while my Granda was delivering ice cream and having a cuppa with the owner. :excited: When they heard me screaming they ran out then started laughing.
I am still not frightened of anything - I face up to them - but I HATE geese >:( >:( >:( >:(
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We've had geese for a year now, and keep two pairs on about half an acre, they share grazing with a mini horse. They have mixed corn and waterfowl pellets each day to get them back in their overnight quarters and constant access to large oyster shell grit.
Ours are exhibition Toulouse dewlaps. We let one grey goose sit a clutch of eggs this year but they were old by the time she sat them so nothing hatched. We did take her first 20 or so eggs from her for the incubator and reared most of them. Hatch and fertility rates were excellent. We had to experiment with humidity to get it right, as we had never hatched anything artificially before. A very small number that took too long to hatch had deformed feet so had to be culled. We were advised not to intervene too soon in a difficult hatch so it's a fine balance. Go too soon and you kill the gosling, wait too long and the feet bones appear to set in a deformed way.
Rearing geese for us this first year was an amazing experience and I can't wait for next season. I have a pair of Sebastopols waiting to arrive.....