The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Baggins11 on June 18, 2020, 09:41:33 am
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Hi All,
I would like to have a go at breeding but I know already that one of my neighbours will have an issue with cockerel noise. We do have a field but I don't want to put the breeding pen and house right at the bottom as I am worried about security.
Our land is visible from the road and it is not unusual to find people wandering onto our land. Up at the top nearer the house would be more secure.
So I am trying to figure how to minimise noise as much as possible. I have read about cockerel boxes within the hen house at night which sounds worth trying. Just wondered if anyone has tried it and how they built it? We have a plastic hen house and would rather a plastic cockerel box to reduce the red mite issue.
Has anyone tried putting a door on a poultry palace adding a perch and trying that? Or any other suggestions?
I know some of you might say don't anticipate problems with the neighbours but this particular neighbour has said we shouldn't use our ride on lawnmower before 9am on weekends so I think complaints will be inevitable.
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I think if they complain about a ride on mower you have BIG problems. Are they what we call 'toonsers'? :innocent:
I had a separate box inside my shed for my cockerel, Jamie, and the windows were all blacked out; although it helped, his shriek was still extremely loud in the quiet early hours. He became vicious so I rehomed him eventually. but I remember asking a neighbour on the other side of the railway line from me if my dogs annoyed him if they barked - his reply was that the dogs weren't a problem but if 'I hear that bl**dy cockerel any more I'll be making soup with him' - he was joking as they were very friendly but when Jamie started going for me the decision was easy
Sorry, I don't know the answer, unless some breeds are quieter than others??
Jamie was a Light Sussex, and a very handsome one too - he latterly had 20 black rock ladies in an acre field to court so was happy there. He put an advert on Gumtree that I had 'revoked his boarding rights' and that he had his little suitcase packed ready for his next home - i had three offers for him, and the 20 girls seemd an excellent home for him. The family kept in touch for quite a while
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breed muscovy ducks instead - neighbours won't even know you have them.
Someone near us had a dog that was standing on the balcony 24/7 and barking every time someone was walking past, I.e. all they long! And most of the night!
Much more annoying and louder than our Cockerell! I asked our neighbours about the Cockerell but they said don't worry we like it , it reminds us of Africa and India.
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I’d think again.
A cockerel starts crowing at 5am and often earlier, even in the middle of winter with its longer nights. And yes, that bothers many people, and unless you’re in a rural area the council will likely take the complainers’ side. It’s not the sound, it’s the timing.
Just imagine someone wakes your whole household up by ringing the doorbell at 5am (let’s call this the urban equivalent of a cockerel), then again half an hour later, and again and again. Every single day...
Having your cockerel at the other end of the field won’t resolve the noise issue unless your field is miles long.
But say you go ahead and start breeding, inevitably you’ll be hatching boys. Apart from needing to know how to humanely despatch them (lovely rehoming stories such as doganjo’s above are very far and few between, unfortunately), within a few months those young boys will crow, too, long before they are ready for the table if that’s a route you’re considering.
And before you know it, lo and behold at 4am every day there’s The Great British Crow Off taking place in your field. Oops...
Neighbours requesting you to not be noisy until 9am I can sort of understand, I’m up early so my cut-off point would be more like 8am (need to allow for ample time with tea and coffee before I can face the incivility of the wider world), but try explaining that to a cockerel. And any chicken coop, no matter how dark, will still allow the sound of crowing out - it needs plenty of air holes, after all!
So I’d say you’d better not. Crowing comes naturally to a cockerel, I’ve heard of other ways to try and stop it, all of which sound cruel. I’d try and deal with the trespassers, maybe electric fencing? Or using heras panels for the run? You can pick those up cheaply, we built a massive and very secure run with them.
I do keep a cockerel, btw, lovely gentleman, he has fathered lots of chicks over the years. Hence why we know about the pre-dawn crow offs... ;) There’s absolutely no way I’d have him anywhere near my bedroom window ;D
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I bought a cockerel into the house one night as he'd been caught up in a fox attack and I thought he was going to peg it overnight. So settled him into a dog crate, said my goodbyes and left him all looking sorry for himself. Sh*t myself at 3am when he started crowing in the hallway, and every 10 minutes from then on :roflanim:
If your neighbours aren't very tolerant I'd definitely not get a cockerel :roflanim:
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That's the thing though we are in a rural area. We are on the edge of a hamlet with fairly close neighbours either side but apart from that fields all around. Also the wider area is very rural and to be honest I think it's crazy that there is not a way of managing having a cockerel where we live. The field is a couple of acres so not massive but surely there is a way of doing it.
I think it is kind of unreasonable them not wanting to hear a ride on mower at 8.45am but I do understand the difference between 8.45am and when a cockerel would crow hence why I am asking about noise reduction strategies.
I understand the implication of breeding and hatching boys Eve and have no problem despatching humanely. I was brought up in a farming background so I understand the process. I was intending on despatching as soon as they crow or show signs of being boys as I wouldn't want a crow off - I think that would tip the neighbours over the edge.
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Ride on mower, not before 9am, sounds not bad. If you were making hay or combining, go for it but being disturbed by lawn maintenance first thing in the morning I get if you could just as easily do it later.
Could you just keep your cocks down the end of field and more valuable hens close to the house?
Do you have any friends could keep the cockerel for you? Only need to mate with ladies about once a week or something so you could store him elsewhere and bring him in daylight hours only if you can be bothered?
I wonder if a really blacked out cockerel house with a dim artificial light until about 1am followed by proper dark would trick him to thinking it wasn’t midnight till about 3/4am and then not start crowing till 8/9? They are still loud in the daytime, but in a rural area this is pretty reasonable.
If you like chicken soup, try it and see! Doesn’t it take multiple complaints, sound recordings from council, various letters, etc, before sound disturbance is enforced?
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I think you are right Steph and I might give it a go. I could try a dim light on timer and see if it worked.
Yes it does take lots of recordings etc the complaints process but I wouldn't want it to get to that as I don't want to seriously fall out with them. Both us and them are in our forever homes so it would be a long time to be in the bad books!!
Unfortunately I couldn't send the cockerel anywhere else but it's a nice idea.
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That's the thing though we are in a rural area. We are on the edge of a hamlet with fairly close neighbours either side but apart from that fields all around. Also the wider area is very rural and to be honest I think it's crazy that there is not a way of managing having a cockerel where we live. The field is a couple of acres so not massive but surely there is a way of doing it.
I spoke to someone in similiar situation who was breeding chickens for years- new neighbours moved in and complained to the council. Council officers came, and said "well, you live in the countryside!" :roflanim:
If it was city council it would be different - my Cockerell keeps crowing at 4.30am and we are definitely in the city! 20 minutes walk from Leicester city center. And whats interesting i know 2 people personally who live within 2 minutes walk from my house and have both hens and Cockerels!
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That's funny macgro maybe I need to move to a city then?? Possibly its a welcome change from city sounds..
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TBH, if your neighbours only complain about your ride on mower before 9am at weekends, I don't think that's unreasonable, esp if they work and weekends is their only chance of a lie in.
I've heard of people trying to stop the light so cockerels dont know its morning, but ours crows about 3 in the morning, still dark, and if kept so dark, i always wonder how they would get enough air.
Seen something about cockerel collars on here recently?
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Many years ago, my mum had a dog that used to bark all the time when he wasn't with her. She tried all the usual tricks radio on, leaving an item of clothing etc. She also tried a dog behaviourist and nothing worked. When my dad passed away my mum was on her own and the dog was essentially chaining her to the house at a time that she needed to be getting out and seeing other people so I set about finding a bit of a solution.
What I came up with was basically a soundproof room within her garage. It was about 6ftx6ftx6ft and was made of ply, acoustic insulation, acoustic plasterboard and had a triple glazed small door. There were offset passive vents and 2 computer fans to push in and extrace the outside air.
The end result was that from standing outside the garage you couldn't hear anything and from inside it was lower than conversation level and cost me about £150 in materials. And more importantly my mum could get out of the house for an hour and after a good while of doing this the dogs separation anxiety started to get better. It may take a bit of rethinking but there should be a solution to the early morning crowing but would probably be dependent on your neighbours being ok with it when you turn the birds out.
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I am really pleased you got the situation sorted for your mum Kiran that sounds like it was very difficult for her.
I think in terms of the cockerel I will speak to the neighbours first to see if they would be ok with the noise during the day. No point doing all that then them complaining about daytime noise.
And it might sound like I am being too harsh about the ride on thing but that is one of a few things they have rules about. I guess I am an early bird then but I have always thought noise after 8.30 or 8.45 is acceptable. They don't work so it's not just a weekend rule it's any day of the week.
They have also complained about my kids playing netball during the day specifically the noise the ball makes on the concrete. That is right next to the boundary but I guess shows how sensitive they are about noise. I used to live backing onto a school and loved the sound when it was playtime. Some people are obviously more sensitive to certain noises than others.
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Oh and I had read about the cockerel collar but thanks for mentioning it hillbilly. I am just not convinced it is kind for the bird. I would rather reduce the noise than forcefully change the natural behaviour I think.
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Where about are you?
I’ve often felt a cockerel loan scheme might work. Many of us only want to raise a few chicks each year, so might only need a cockerel for four or six weeks yet we have to keep them all year round. Of course there would be a risk of infections being passed about, it’s just a Vague thought, not a workable plan. Do you know what breed?-might be a breeder near you would keep a young cock till early spring for you, then you might only need his services till May, sell him on then keep one of your chicks over winter but put it away come next May. Don’t know if that would improve things if you only had a cock for 3-4 months instead of year round and right through summer?
I think ventilation is really important for chickens so wouldn’t keep hens in a blacked out shed.
I guess Food and breed security is improved by having many small flocks.
Might be worth visiting a breeder and listening to the different sounds they all make?
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Might be worth visiting a breeder and listening to the different sounds they all make?
One of the first things I said on this thread was were there some breeds quieter than others? Anyone know the answer?
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'Tis such a shame folk can be intolerant of roosters crowing. Back in the day when country folk were actually country folk, it was simply not a matter for discussion. Plenty of folk kept mixed flocks around the village and neighbours accepted that: my father was a shift-worker and we lived opposite a keeper of loads of chickens (mainly bantam game though). Can't remember my father ever once complaining about having his irregular sleep patterns disturbed by cockerels crowing.
Most folk get used to anything over time, but unfortunately some folk are not prepared to.
(That said, not sure I should wish to live next door to a "skateboard park": that would be annoying for anyone who doesn't ride a skateboard !!! )
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Doganjo I would also be interested in hearing if some breeds tend to be quieter - you would think there might be a general pattern.
I live in Herefordshire and although I love the idea of borrowing or sharing a cockerel I am not sure how feasible it would be in practice. Part of the reason I am interested in breeding is improving on a breed and I don't think that would be so easy if you have the constraints of not being able to house the cockerels and potentially culling them if you can't keep them for long.
I have some chicks indoors at the moment and the breeder I got them from breeds mainly marans and cream legbar. The cockerels were certainly making themselves heard both times I have visited.
Yes arobwk give me a cockerel over a skateboard park any day!
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I don't know about the breed making a difference, but in my experience individual cockerels vary. Of 4 to date, 1 crowed on and off right through the night, right through the year. None of the others have done that. The pita was an Araucana, if breed is important.
I would not share/borrow birds because it would seriously compromise any biosecurity you or the other party try to keep.
Is your coop mobile? Could you try it in different locations around the field? Can you put it somewhere where there is a large dense shrub or other sound barrier between it and the noise-sensitive neighbours?
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Smaller ones, bantams, sablepoots are a higher pitch, I find this tone really cutting whereas the louder welsommers and marrans have a nicer tone though more noise. That’s why I think it might be worth Baggins visiting a breeder, walking round and listening.
Perris is totally right about individuals making different amounts of noise. And more cocks in earshot means more crows, and it travels so far that they have a competition. They’ll crow to a hooting owl or any loud noise.
Here’s another idea; one of these white noise machines in his blacked out, sound proofed sleeping quarters, so he doesn’t hear all that and feel the need to answer back?
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Yes we have a moveable hen house so could try different locations initially. I was thinking about growing a dense bush or hedge to reduce noise. Although it will take a while to grow so won't be an immediate improvement.
We also have a dense bush between us and the neighbours and our land is sloped so the birds would be on slightly lower ground than the neighbours house so I hope that would help. I don't know much about how sounds travels though so not sure about this.
I love the idea of white noise Steph! That and dim lights on til 1am sounds worth trying- not sure if these things would have a negative impact on the birds though. I will do a bit of reading and see what I can find.
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I'm not 100% sure but doesn't sound increase as it rises?
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Bouncing a ball on concrete would drive many neighbours around the bend, and for most house buyers being too near a school is a definite dealbreaker. Then there’s the other noises coming from your side early morning such as your lawnmower... Maybe they’re not that sound sensitive, as you say you live in a little hamlet where every noise is heard and where people move to for peace and quiet.
Just to give some background why I advised to think again: a cousin of mine had a cockerel, similar reasoning to yours as to why she should be able to keep one but completely ignored the fact that, although living fairly rural, her neighbours were not miles away but right next door. Neighbours complained about the cockerel and she refused to rehome him. She found the cockerel dead one day, not a death by natural causes... :'(
From what you’re saying you have more sense than my cousin :eyelashes: but it’s the neighbourly relations you were concerned about and once people get sufficiently annoyed with you that isn’t easily reversed.
I fully agree with you regarding the cockerel collars, they’re cruel, but the insulated coop, providing it has enough air for the cockerel all night, sounds like a good idea. Would that also work when you are on holiday and someone else looks after your birds and would need to lock him in and out? Automatic popholes can and do fail, unfortunately, though if your run is fox proof and the pophole only for the coop that wouldn’t be a drama.
It’s a shame you have people trespassing onto your land, maybe some barbed wire might convince them otherwise? A camera with a video link and speakers hidden in a hedge so you can scare the hell out of trespassers? ;D (And post the results on here! :roflanim: )
Any chance of bribing, I mean thanking, your neighbours with eggs?
I have a poland hen that can crow like any cockerel, btw, but the volume is definitely lower than of large fowl. You don’t fancy raising bantams, by any chance? ;)
The good thing is, if it all goes wrong you can dispatch the boy yourself :thumbsup: I’ve lost count of the number of cockerels I’ve been offered because owners thought they wouldn’t crow early / loudly..
Wish I had land, I’d opt for sheep...
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Just to clarify Eve my children were playing netball not basketball so it's not constant bouncing a ball and they only play for short periods on the yard as they have a whole field to use as a playground. They are not noisy kids and we do hear more noise coming from the neighbours than they will hear from us.
Also everyone cuts their grass don't they!?! I have never ever done anything like that before 8.30 am but have once done it before 9 which was when they brought it up. Since then I have waited until 10am so there is not lots of early morning noise coming from us!
I didn't mention it originally as I didn't think it relevant but they play lots of loud music and have parties that I am very tolerant of. I do think it should be give and take.
And sheep don't really interest me (and interest my dog far too much) but I will be getting some goats. We always had goats growing up and I love their character. Just got to figure how to fence them in.. but that's another story.
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Well, [member=192121]Baggins11[/member] - I see no reason why you should tolerate loud music and noisy parties when your neighbours are trying to curb your activities. However, rather than ask them to turn the music down, I would suggest you arrange the noisiest party you can manage soon (social distancing permitting) and wait for them to complain ! Remind them of their own noisy activities AND then go buy at least two cockerels the very next day! :o
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I didn't mention it originally as I didn't think it relevant but they play lots of loud music and have parties that I am very tolerant of. I do think it should be give and take.
next time, record it, and if there are any further noise complaints from them, play it back to them. Indeed it should be give and take.
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I don't think that light makes any difference to cock birds. My son spent continuous nights until late working on a machine respray in one end of a building with the lights on and the cockerels still crowed at the same time in the morning.
You don't really want to get into a entrenched battle with your neighbours or a tit for tat about their noise and yours although they seem very sensitive to your noise and insensitive about their own. Maybe they are not morning people because they stay up late partying :innocent:
I think I would sort out the fencing and trespass issue first so you can place your chooks further away. Sound proof as best you can. I can see a separate box for him and hers is a pain as you will have to put him in his every night .
Whilst writing this 10.45am my cockerel has crowed twice!
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Yes harmony I don't want to get in a battle with them I think we just live in 2 different time zones! The parties are not too much trouble as it's not too noisy if we are in the house. The loud music in the garden during the day is more annoying as it's really not my style!
I think the trespassing issue should be my priority. Not least because our dog is very protective of our plot and has got to the trespassers first on a couple of occasions. I called her down easy enough and I am sure they won't make the mistake of 'accidentally' trespassing again but I would hate her to bite someone and then be put down.
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I didn't mention it originally as I didn't think it relevant but they play lots of loud music and have parties that I am very tolerant of. I do think it should be give and take.
You didn’t think that was relevant?? :o That changes the whole story!! :thumbsup: Get your cockerel, fence in your land and let your dog loose on it (and if you ever need to explain yourself in court, don’t think anything is not relevant and leave it out as -in the nicest possible way- you’re not the best at writing your defence! ;) )
So the question now is, which cockerel to get? ;D
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I wouldn't make a good lawyer tis true :-[
I have a lovely cream legbar boy indoors at the moment who has a very calm temperament (I am trying not to get attached). He would be half brother to his girls so I am not sure where that stands. I have read about sibling breeding and father daughter but couldn't find any info on half sibling breeding. Would that work ok?
Otherwise I would have to get a cock in ::) from another breeder but I chose the breeder carefully when i got the eggs so it would be good if I didn't need to do that. Also it would be one less bird to dispatch.
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I would get attached to that CL cockerel as a calm temperament is worth a lot :) Unless you’ll be breeding endless generations, a little bit of interbreeding is not a problem, plus I’m very wary of getting external stock in as years ago, when I first started with chickens, I once bought CLs with Marek’s Disease which was an utter nightmare for several years, it’s such a cruel disease.
Our cockerel has 2 daughters in with him, they’re our only meat birds left (because his two half sisters have passed away), they’re very gentle and sons are really late to crow, all offspring (all destined for the kitchen) is excellent and their weight traits are very predictable.
We haven’t done several generation off them, though, your plans may be different.
There used to be a old chap trading as Castle Farm who some on here may remember, he bred endless generations very successfully and had some closely related birds, he always said that that way he knew what he was getting. You could take it too far, if course, but unless you’re starting a poultry empire you’ll probably be ok keeping your own well tempered and disease-free young lad. You may change breeds later on and get fresh blood in then if they can be sourced from a clean seller.
Go on, give him a name ;)
Admittedly, my CL boys were early to crow, though, so those boys you’ll hatch...maybe name them after the neighbours, they’ll taste even better! :roflanim:
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Oh and I had read about the cockerel collar but thanks for mentioning it hillbilly. I am just not convinced it is kind for the bird. I would rather reduce the noise than forcefully change the natural behaviour I think.
I agree, not something I would do, but others have and seemed happy to use it. :)