The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Land Management => Topic started by: tommytink on June 25, 2019, 09:36:26 am
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So I have a 1.5 acre field that I was planning to use for hay, but despite best efforts I can’t find anyone that’s willing to cut/ted/small bale it.
It’s got pretty long now and it’s starting to flatten. What should I do with it now? Someone suggested letting it go over and then get sheep to graze it (as the bottom of the grass will be accessible); someone else says it’ll wreck the field if left like that.
I’m not happy about it. It’s the only field that is tractor accessible so from an economical view it wasn’t worth buying a tractor and attachments to do it myself. I think I had rose-tinted thoughts when I moved here that I’d find at least one person in the area that would be willing to lend a hand, and it wasn’t as if I was looking for it to be done for free.
Anyway, any suggestions welcome, although I can foresee a long day strimming...
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where are you ?
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Near Whitland in Carmarthenshire.
Have asked surrounding farmers and for ideas of who might be able to if they can’t. Just no one interested.
Can’t come from too far away as they have to bring the tractor so these companies that advertise small baling are useless too unless they’re on your doorstep.
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If you resort to strimming what are you going to with the cut grass as this will really damage the grass if left ? What about asking local farmers if they want to graze some young calves or a couple of cows as they would tear and eat very long grass better than sheep but even 20 - 30 sheep would get it down , all would be short term just until the grass was gone
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People here do an annual field cut with a 'tondeuse débroussailleuse' which is a 3 wheeled self-propelled rotary mower. With the first height cut it takes 1m down to 50cm and the second cut is down to 10cm. Width of cut is 52cm and prices start at €600, so a lot cheaper than a tractor. No idea what the English name is for one but it translated literally as a 'strimmer mower' although it has a steel blade like a rotary mower. Don't know if you can buy them up there though? 6000m2 isn't too much- they drive at 2.3km/hr so some easy maths will tell you how long it will take.
I use a scythe for 4000m2, but that's partially because we need the hay to use for weed-killing large areas.
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The rotary mower sounds good, but not seen one around here yet! Someone suggested manually doing it with a scythe but not sure how long that would take. Plus then we’d have to turn it (we thought once a day but someone else said three??) and find a way to bale it.
We thought about the cow thing. Not sure the sheep would take it out as they like the new shoots and not the old tough stuff.
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Its a shame but I've found exactly the same here in Carmarthenshire. When the weather is good enough to make hay/haylage all the contractors are working flat out. They can't afford to turn down 100 acres to do a small field. The only way to do it is if you have a neighbour that does his own and he's happy to do yours at the same time.
I'd ask around my neighbours saying you have free grazing for a month or so and get horses to eat it down, or a neighbour with cattle might do it?
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Cattle best bet for long grass. Plenty of sheep would do it eventually has the potential of causing scald working through the long stuff. Horses not tidy graziers.
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Cattle best bet for long grass. Plenty of sheep would do it eventually has the potential of causing scald working through the long stuff. Horses not tidy graziers.
Depends on the cattle and how long / rough it is. Our Jersey and her crossbred offspring turn their noses up at long stemmy stuff, and we have to send in the Fells, who will pretty much crop anything down neatly :)
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Cattle best bet for long grass. Plenty of sheep would do it eventually has the potential of causing scald working through the long stuff. Horses not tidy graziers.
Depends on the cattle and how long / rough it is. Our Jersey and her crossbred offspring turn their noses up at long stemmy stuff, and we have to send in the Fells, who will pretty much crop anything down neatly :)
I was assuming that it wasn't rough pasture as it was going to be made into hay. Most horses are selective and they leave dunging areas which they don't touch. Although, if you leave anything anywhere for long enough they'll put their noses down instead of up.
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Aye, we pick up our ponies’ poo, or they’d soon run out of grazing.
And I tried the “they’ll eat it when they’re hungry enough” approach with the cattle with a particularly overgrown area last year, and they were happy to take only the barest starvation rations rather than eat it down properly. Sigh. So the Fells went in and sorted it out for us :).
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No it’s not rough, it’s a field that the previous owners used for hay so in quite good condition.
I think we’re just unlucky about not finding anyone willing to help. Understand 1.5 acres vs 100 etc but we have asked companies advertising (who are invariably too far away), farmers (who contract out) and smaller outfits (who have the equipment but aren’t keen on helping). I guess I think if it was me and I had the kit I’d try and lend a hand but not everyone thinks the same way.
I do know a farmer with a dairy herd so could ask them if they want to stick a couple of calves on there. I have a CPH but not got cows on my APHA list so guess I would need to add this first. I infer that there’s more to cows than sheep etc so not keen on getting my own just yet!
Because this is Wales we were aiming for haylage and wanted small bale as a big one would ruin before we could use it all. Plus we don’t have equipment to move them. If it was hay this might be different as could just take what we need but still wouldn’t be able to maneuver them. Got a quad but never heard of a small baler for one. How would that work as there’s no PTO on a quad??
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You'll be lucky to get someone to make hay for you on such a small field. The weather is that uncertain at the moment that they'll have their time cut out making hay on more economic fields. As mentioned, I would ask a local farmer if they've anything to put on it. (Horses would be bottom of my list .) And afterwards you could ask him to top it to tidy it up.
I've got 2 fields shut off for hay - only 3 acres each. But I'm not bothering now. I'm going to put some cattle on, then sheep and buy hay in later if and when I need it. With present weather forecast it'll be a few weeks before I can make hay, so would rather rotate everything around so they have plenty of grass to eat and keep condition/grow fat; rather than let them go short while I wait for the hay fields to regrow - which could be into August/September at this rate.
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Yeah I think I knew it might be a problem finding someone. A couple had time to talk a lot and air their knowledge but not interested in helping - just disappointed.
We are going to ask a farmer nearby if he can put a couple of cows on it. We have a topper so can finish it off after.
This year was going to be an experiment, keeping the field and making hay vs grazing it, and I guess we know the answer now!
We have storage so was looking at buying off the field hay. Not sure how much cheaper this is, or whether there are any risks? Not sure how many bales we’d even need!
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No it’s not rough, it’s a field that the previous owners used for hay so in quite good condition.
Err... so who did they get to do it for them?
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Someone who passed away last year.
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Yeah I think I knew it might be a problem finding someone. A couple had time to talk a lot and air their knowledge but not interested in helping - just disappointed.
Not sure how many bales we’d even need!
Maybe expecting help isn't the approach which gets help. If others see you making every effort yourself, then they are more likely to offer help I think. It also works if you offer to help them out first with something you can do (but you have to have met them first, I know). I helped a neighbour's wife with humphing and stacking bales in the barn, and in return they made our hay that year (plus for halfers of the crop). It helps to listen to those more knowledgeable than you - listen and store away the knowledge
We go by 5 small bales per sheep for a hard winter, and usually have a little left over. I don't know about for other animals. I have never found out what 'horse quality hay' is, just what suits our sheep. One big round bale seems to be the equivalent of about 6 small square bales, but it does vary with how tightly packed they are.
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Yeah I think I knew it might be a problem finding someone. A couple had time to talk a lot and air their knowledge but not interested in helping - just disappointed.
Not sure how many bales we’d even need!
Maybe expecting help isn't the approach which gets help. If others see you making every effort yourself, then they are more likely to offer help I think. It also works if you offer to help them out first with something you can do (but you have to have met them first, I know). I helped a neighbour's wife with humphing and stacking bales in the barn, and in return they made our hay that year (plus for halfers of the crop). It helps to listen to those more knowledgeable than you - listen and store away the knowledge
We go by 5 small bales per sheep for a hard winter, and usually have a little left over. I don't know about for other animals. I have never found out what 'horse quality hay' is, just what suits our sheep. One big round bale seems to be the equivalent of about 6 small square bales, but it does vary with how tightly packed they are.
I think the OP was prepared to pay. Unfortunately it is difficult to find someone who will do small areas and small bales these days.
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If you do cut it with a scythe and manage to dry it, you could make a hand bailer. There are various designs on YouTube.
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Yeah I think I knew it might be a problem finding someone. A couple had time to talk a lot and air their knowledge but not interested in helping - just disappointed.
Not sure how many bales we’d even need!
Maybe expecting help isn't the approach which gets help. If others see you making every effort yourself, then they are more likely to offer help I think. It also works if you offer to help them out first with something you can do (but you have to have met them first, I know). I helped a neighbour's wife with humphing and stacking bales in the barn, and in return they made our hay that year (plus for halfers of the crop). It helps to listen to those more knowledgeable than you - listen and store away the knowledge
We go by 5 small bales per sheep for a hard winter, and usually have a little left over. I don't know about for other animals. I have never found out what 'horse quality hay' is, just what suits our sheep. One big round bale seems to be the equivalent of about 6 small square bales, but it does vary with how tightly packed they are.
I think the OP was prepared to pay. Unfortunately it is difficult to find someone who will do small areas and small bales these days.
Absolutely was willing to pay. Wouldn’t expect anyone to do something for nothing. If we had more flat land we would probably have invested in an old tractor and bits to do it, but just can’t justify the expense at the moment. Hopefully as time goes by we’ll get to know more people at a similar level to us that we can work with. Or maybe I’m still dreaming!!
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Hopefully as time goes by we’ll get to know more people at a similar level to us that we can work with.
I think it just takes time to make connections when your new to an area.
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Yeah I think I knew it might be a problem finding someone. A couple had time to talk a lot and air their knowledge but not interested in helping - just disappointed.
Not sure how many bales we’d even need!
Maybe expecting help isn't the approach which gets help. If others see you making every effort yourself, then they are more likely to offer help I think. It also works if you offer to help them out first with something you can do (but you have to have met them first, I know). I helped a neighbour's wife with humphing and stacking bales in the barn, and in return they made our hay that year (plus for halfers of the crop). It helps to listen to those more knowledgeable than you - listen and store away the knowledge
We go by 5 small bales per sheep for a hard winter, and usually have a little left over. I don't know about for other animals. I have never found out what 'horse quality hay' is, just what suits our sheep. One big round bale seems to be the equivalent of about 6 small square bales, but it does vary with how tightly packed they are.
I think the OP was prepared to pay. Unfortunately it is difficult to find someone who will do small areas and small bales these days.
I know that harmony. My point is that sometimes, in the smallholding community, payment isn't the only option. For others as well as the OP, what they might mostly need is help, not a little bit of cash.
We have helped various people, neighbours, with their haymaking since we got our own machinery, but they soon seem to take advantage and expect us to do all the work - even on their own crop. No help even with carting and stacking, and from one even complaints because we hadn't stacked their hay just how they wanted it, while they had taken the opportunity for a holiday ??? From another help stopped dead when dinner time was reached, but no time for us to stop to eat before the weather closed in. These are people half our age! We love to help people out, but if they expect that help as if we are contractors, then we retreat. Offering money would be something of an insult in return for a favour, but helping us with our own crop would be lovely. There is a slightly different economy amongst smallholders, don't you think, where money is not the true currency.
I'm not suggesting that the OP would be like my examples, but I am trying to explain one possible reason he isn't getting the help he has hoped for. Perhaps those around him have been taken for a ride before. But don't give up Tommytink, there are plenty of lovely helpful people around and you will meet them one day. Don't stop dreaming.
It could be worth approaching a contractor who might help if he/she is doing other work close by.
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Yeah I think I knew it might be a problem finding someone. A couple had time to talk a lot and air their knowledge but not interested in helping - just disappointed.
Not sure how many bales we’d even need!
Maybe expecting help isn't the approach which gets help. If others see you making every effort yourself, then they are more likely to offer help I think. It also works if you offer to help them out first with something you can do (but you have to have met them first, I know). I helped a neighbour's wife with humphing and stacking bales in the barn, and in return they made our hay that year (plus for halfers of the crop). It helps to listen to those more knowledgeable than you - listen and store away the knowledge
We go by 5 small bales per sheep for a hard winter, and usually have a little left over. I don't know about for other animals. I have never found out what 'horse quality hay' is, just what suits our sheep. One big round bale seems to be the equivalent of about 6 small square bales, but it does vary with how tightly packed they are.
I think the OP was prepared to pay. Unfortunately it is difficult to find someone who will do small areas and small bales these days.
I know that harmony. My point is that sometimes, in the smallholding community, payment isn't the only option. For others as well as the OP, what they might mostly need is help, not a little bit of cash.
There is a slightly different economy amongst smallholders, don't you think, where money is not the true currency.
It could be worth approaching a contractor who might help if he/she is doing other work close by.
I don't disagree with you Fleecewife but I think tommytink has explored the contractor option. I would really struggle here to get anyone to small bale despite being on good terms with my farming neighbours. Maybe he will find someone who will do it in the future for payment or help but it might just be easier to do something else with the field and buy in.
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Yes at this stage you are right Harmony.
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Well we spoke to another neighbour (non-farming) who spoke to someone they know who puts some sheep on their land and he came and cut it for us. So it’s down at least. He said the reason he’d come was because he’d been in our position before. Said next time get it all lined up before it needs doing, which is what we’ve been trying to do. So he got paid and as we always say to everyone that we think might be useful to do swapsies with, let us know if they ever need a hand with anything. I seriously think though around here people aren’t too keen on taking you up on offers of help for fear of being in your pocket. We’ve certainly never had to try and ask for help so much before.
One guy said he might be able to small bale if it’s cut. He has a tedder too but didn’t mention about that. The guy that cut it said he could maybe come and ted it but he lives further away than the one with the small baler. So we’re maybe thinking try and turn by hand, try and find someone to ted it the last time, and cross fingers for getting it baled. Not looking likely though as we left a message and not heard back. Which’ll be a shame as it’s money down the drain. But at least we know for next year not to bother!! It had to be cut one way or another so hey ho!
Perhaps we are expecting too much. We are eager to throw ourselves into a farming community where everyone lends a hand to each other but hopefully we’ll get to know more people the longer we’re here.
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Well we spoke to another neighbour (non-farming) who spoke to someone they know who puts some sheep on their land and he came and cut it for us. So it’s down at least. He said the reason he’d come was because he’d been in our position before. Said next time get it all lined up before it needs doing, which is what we’ve been trying to do. So he got paid and as we always say to everyone that we think might be useful to do swapsies with, let us know if they ever need a hand with anything. I seriously think though around here people aren’t too keen on taking you up on offers of help for fear of being in your pocket. We’ve certainly never had to try and ask for help so much before.
One guy said he might be able to small bale if it’s cut. He has a tedder too but didn’t mention about that. The guy that cut it said he could maybe come and ted it but he lives further away than the one with the small baler. So we’re maybe thinking try and turn by hand, try and find someone to ted it the last time, and cross fingers for getting it baled. Not looking likely though as we left a message and not heard back. Which’ll be a shame as it’s money down the drain. But at least we know for next year not to bother!! It had to be cut one way or another so hey ho!
Perhaps we are expecting too much. We are eager to throw ourselves into a farming community where everyone lends a hand to each other but hopefully we’ll get to know more people the longer we’re here.
tommytink,
Having been in your situation many years ago I understand your predicament .
As I understand it Its 1.5 acres, not a lot ,so I suggest you start turning by hand , watch a few on line videos to get the idea and get help if possible , Its repetitive to start with but you will get the hang of it and you will ache, a lot.
The first spread is the worst as the grass is heavy and still full of moisture. but it gets lighter each time you work it,trust me.
If you get to the hay is made stage and there is absolutely ,positively, defiantly no chance of baling , even bribing someone is worth a try, then you still have an option that you must plan for in any case, and that is to make a hay stack*, properly , again there are videos, this is important , all the time and effort invested cannot be allowed to go to waste.
I know this, in our first year my wife and I did this with 8 acres. Our learning curve was steep, very steep, as "Incommers" no one wanted to help the white settlers, our first equipment was a trailed fingerbar mower and a converted horse drawn hay rake , both from the "nettle patch" , the land rover towed them , gathering the hay for stacking is the hardest bit.
Make a start. when people see you making an effort you may have a better chance of getting assistance, but dont waste that grass.
*if you do make a haystack dont cover it with a tarp its not a short cut, lesson learnt. :-\
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Those were the days, cutting the grass with a finger mower and then turning with a wooden hay rake until it was "made". It was then rowed with a horse rake then using hay pikes loaded onto a flat trailer, then built a stack. We used to mow a lot of rush which was put on the top of the stack which was then covered with a heavy duty net and pinned down. What a job it was in the winter to cut it with a hay knife to feed out.
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I find even if you pay cash on the day no one really wants the work. I have 7 acres of standing grass, next doors is cut because he the son of large family farm, and the contractor cut his but would not do mine, even though I pay in cash or bank transfer on the day. So many farmers get stung with people wanting something for nothing, a tractor is about £30phr, but its what they are losing doing yours when they have a 50 acres to do for someone else and only so many days when its dry.
I would rather it was standing than on the floor getting wet. It will be strip grazed as fogage and should keep them until December, and the skylarks have a home
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Looking to buy a smallholding somewhere in scotland at the moment and have been giving this a little thought as i am likely to find myself in the same situation one day.
I thought about buying a quad bike with a trailed mower and then using a walk behind tractor with a small round baler attachment. Cant seem to find a towable quad bike baler. I might add that none of this equipment needs to be new of course. Just a thought. Maybe there are better options!
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It may turn out better just to buy off the field. At least you have some control over the quality of what you buy. Relying on someone else to make your hay, in an uncertain year, can result in you having to pay to have it turned many times and still ending up with second quality hay.
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tommytink.
How did you get on ? Did you get any hay made ?
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Yes I have hay!!
So we started turning by hand, thinking even if we do a portion of it and salvage something it’ll be something. I then saw on a social media site someone I met at the village Christmas meal advertising his small bale hay. I messaged him and asked who did his and long story short he came and turned it for us once a day and then baled it. This guy is the son in law of one of the locals who said he didn’t know anyone that could do it!! So I was very pleased and maybe a little faith has been restored. I don’t think it’s the best quality, it should’ve been cut earlier, but that’s down to us not being able to get things sorted. At least it’s off the field and if they don’t want to eat it we’ll use it as bedding. Whether we attempt it next year I don’t know. We may just graze it and buy what we want in, although if what we got turns out to be a hit, economically (going on this year) it would be better to make it ourselves if we can get it lined up. But an extra grazing field will come in very handy for the amount of sheep we have.
If only you could get quad attachments for doing it - no PTO though so you’d need a separate motor. Got one on my flail mower but it chews up the fuel...
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Thats excellent news, well done , I am so pleased for you .
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I feel your pain, I'm still in a similar situation in Swansea. I am ordering a new topper next week as mine is fit for the scrap heap and I'm going cut 10 acres. I'll see how much I can collect but it's not going to be fun times with a full time job too.
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We’ve had an unlucky turn of events which has left us with a field of cut meadow grass left lying. It’s been soaked for 10 days now. We will need to buy in hay for our small flock of sheep but what can we do with all the ruined hay/grass?! It’s been a good field over winter as it doesn’t get too bogey but how best to clear it? Or how long before we can put sheep on it again?
Any suggestions appreciated, we have no machinery.
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Without machinery it is hard graft with a pitch fork and trailer of some sort. You can put it into trailer sized piles to reduce driving about but that means forking wet grass twice.
If it is a full crop the stuff will rot and kill the grass underneath it so does need removing.
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Without machinery it is hard graft with a pitch fork and trailer of some sort. You can put it into trailer sized piles to reduce driving about but that means forking wet grass twice.
If it is a full crop the stuff will rot and kill the grass underneath it so does need removing.
Yep, exactly that - been there done that. Ours had already been put into windrows ready for baling, so on my knees and rolling it into just about managable size, then wheelbarrow to a heap - one consolation, it will make excellent compost in a couple of years...
And we got ourselves a topper, only top our fields (2 x 7 acres) a couple of times during the summer (my stocking density is not high enough to get it all eaten off), and buy in hay for the animals over winter. As OH has a full time job with a daily commute of nearly 2 hours no other option made sense...
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We’ve had an unlucky turn of events which has left us with a field of cut meadow grass left lying. It’s been soaked for 10 days now. We will need to buy in hay for our small flock of sheep but what can we do with all the ruined hay/grass?! It’s been a good field over winter as it doesn’t get too bogey but how best to clear it? Or how long before we can put sheep on it again?
Any suggestions appreciated, we have no machinery.
chuck the sheep on quick. theyll disperse a lot of the cut hay if you graze ir hard.
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^ this