The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: TegantheTeg on March 20, 2019, 03:40:24 pm
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Hi all, new to the forum and would be grateful for people's thoughts/ideas.
I have a 22 acre smallholding in South East Wales and I'm looking to start a small pedigree flock this year to cross graze with my horses and to produce lambs for home consumption/friends and perhaps local farmers markets and farm shops. I've been looking at various breeds that would be suitable - criteria includes easily bucket trained, easy lambing, good feet (we are quite wet here) - and haven't decided yet but I did wonder if there are some breeds that produce superior tasting lamb - as in strong, perhaps even gamey tasting?
Breeds I've been considering - Wiltshire Horn (for the lack of shearing), Oxford Down, Ryeland, Grey Faced Dartmoor (OH has a family history in the GFDs) and Jacobs.
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Everyone loves their own breed. We have Coloured Ryelands and the emat is fantastic.We sell locally in lamb boxes, then out the freezer. Folk love it. We had one woman come for the firts time last October and bought two double loin chops for her hubby; came back next day and bought ALL the double long chops. He's having to make do with single loin and chump chops at the moment ;D
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Best tasting lamb will be grass reared and not intensively fed. You might be better doing hogget (12 months old) or even mutton if you want a stronger flavour, but a lot of the breeds on your list can run to fat easily so do watch that. There’s nothing worse than over fat lamb.
We have Lleyns, and cross some to the Poll Dorset and the rest are kept purebred. Super tasting meat and finish quickly too.
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You will never get a definitive answer to a question like this. Everyone has their favourites. You could love a particular breed and then find it doesn't do in your location.
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Choose a sheep you like the look of. I went on looks to cross graze with my horses and got a large, easy to handle breed. It is however a breed not noted for the best of feet. Everyone who has bought lamb from us have come back for more declaring it better than mass produced. However nearly every breed claims to have the best tasting lamb.
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No such thing as best tasting lamb - mutton wins every time! At least hogget (18 months), but never lamb! Shetlands ideal for that, not much hard feed needed and don#t run to fat if left to grow on until second summer.
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Shetland or similar. Buy from the right breeder so they’re tame ones. Great feet, no lambing issues, amazing hogget - full of flavour, succulent but not fat, fantastic fleeces for spinning and skins to sell in addition to meat. (Processing costs around £30-£35 per skin, but a nice coloured sheepskin will sell for £50-75. Good fleeces will fetch £8-20 depending on colour and quality.)
Shouldn’t be too difficult to find rams locally so you don’t have to keep one if you don’t want to. (Could be a bigger issue with a rarer breed.).
Slaughter and butchery costs are at least partly per animal, though, so the smaller bodies of this type of sheep mean the cost per kilo is slightly greater. And of course you’d keep most or all through two summers, meaning you have lambs staying through the winter. If the ground is wet, you might prefer a larger breed where most of the lambs are away before winter. Less fleeces, but you can still do the skins, and you have less work and costs over winter.
Of the breeds your list, I’ve not specifically tasted any, so can’t comment except to say (a) I agree that most non-commercial grass reared sheep meat tastes fabulous, but the Northern Short-tailed type (of which Shetland is one) have a depth of flavour all their own, ime, and (b) think about flies; if your land is both wet and sheltered, so not breezy and airy, you may well do better with something less woolly, like your suggested Wiltshire Horns.
If the idea of selling / using fleeces and skins appeals, then Wiltshire Horn would not be the best choice! Lol.
Re-reading your post, the Shetland and Manx I’ve eaten has the depth of flavour heading towards the gamey end, but without being actually gamey. Castlemilk Moorit has meat in a class of its own, incredibly lean, definitely unlike other lamb. Some say it’s almost like venison, but it’s nicer than some venison ;) I’ve found that most people who like lamb do like Castlemilk Moorit, and most people who *don’t* like lamb, also like Castlemilk Moorit. :)
You’d need to source carefully, though, to be sure you got tame sheep that would be successful breeders of tame sheep ;). Gorgeous to see a flock of these elegant sheep <3
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Choose a sheep you like the look of. I went on looks to cross graze with my horses and got a large, easy to handle breed. It is however a breed not noted for the best of feet. Everyone who has bought lamb from us have come back for more declaring it better than mass produced. However nearly every breed claims to have the best tasting lamb.
I agree wholeheartedly with this! Any grass fed lamb (ie not early lambs kept inside.) taste good. But apparently the best of all is Herdwick lamb, because it takes that bit longer to mature. I don't keep Herdwick sheep now, but did at one time, amongst Ryelands, Dorsets, Shetlands, Manx Loughtans and others. The one meat that stood out from the rest was a Herdwick that was slaughtered fat at 9 months old. So yes it was basically just hogget. But everyone, without prompting commented on the amazing flavour!
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Oh come on everyone - no-one has said the magic word: HEBRIDEAN ;D
Stunning to look at, very friendly if you buy the right stock, bucket trainable, even biscuit trainable, easy lambing, excellent mothers, black tough feet, well able to cope with wet, double fleece designed to keep off the rain, produce close-grained hogget meat at 16 months (in August, best time to send them off). Some folk say the meat is gamey but that word to me means a bit 'off', so I prefer to say halfway between lamb and beef, firm and delicious.
Of course everyone has their favourite, and that depends on individual taste and cooking ability. My suggestion is to try various breeds before plumping for one. There is lots of boxed meat available online, or you could find a rare breeds butcher.
Breeds we have raised and eaten include Shetland, Jacob, Texel and Heb and their various crosses. Every breed produced delicious meat, all slightly different. One thing you could do would be within your pedigree flock, to put a few ewes to a tup from a different breed, borrowed, then compare the crossbred meat.
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Dorset Down.... good ones don’t run to fat and taste wonderful... nice and easy to handle and keep - plus there are several breeders in wales.
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People's Front of Judea!!
Sorry. Shetland. I meant Shetland.
There are definitely differences in taste between different breeds, but a lot of that seems to be down to the age they're slaughtered. However, that decision alone will change your strategy, e.g. can you get the lambs away in the same year they're born, or will you be overwintering them? Also Shetlands, Hebrideans etc are much smaller sheep, so whilst your slaughter & butchery costs will stay the same, the amount of meat per animal will be less. These are all things to consider when making your decision.
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Black Welsh Mountain :)
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The best tasting lamb is the one in my oven...
Have a look at local adverts, markets etc. On the one hand you want to be able to trade breeding stock without driving to the other side of the country. On the other hand, you want something different enough to be noticeable, to stand out from all the other sheep.
Strongly agree on grass fed being the way to go, and if I may plug the Pasture for Life Association... I'm a member (but don't get commission!) and they have lots of advice and help available. Their "Where to buy" section is currently lacking in lamb and in Welsh suppliers, incidentally...
How do you feel about horned sheep? They are more prone to getting stuck in fences (and don't use electric netting with them), the larger / straighter horns make handling them a bit interesting. But they do look spectacular, and you may be able to sell the horns to stick makers?
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whilst your slaughter & butchery costs will stay the same, the amount of meat per animal will be less.
You’ll definitely pay more per kg of meat with a smaller animal, but our butcher down here charges per animal for some things - slaughter of course and maybe the first cuts - and per kilo for some of the processing. So the bill will be less for a small animal, but still work out at more per kilo than the larger.
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Australian White ---only breed i know of that have done work and selection based on intra-muscular fat levels/tear force/taste tests/analysis
genetics may account for 50% of lamb quality but the rest will be management (feed/age/treatment) where and how rthey are killed, hanging time & butcher skills
Then you can sell it to someone who will dry roast it at 320c for 3 hrs and wonder why it's tough :(
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Zwartbles - spectacularly quiet, tall, elegant and pretty sheep that are easily tamed and taste phenomenal. My lambs make 20kg lean carcasses at 5 months old that have tons of taste and don't dry out when cooking. You could either keep them pure or put a commercial tup over them for chunkier lambs. Easy lambing (none of mine have needed assistance the last 2 years) and mostly excellent feet (although you do have to be fussy about where they come from - some of my original stock had feet issues and were culled out for it). They do need plenty of grub though.
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Hi
i have had 2 different breeds of sheep Coloured Ryelands and Wiltshire Horn
this is my experience and not Gospel
i think when looking at flavour as much grass based diet as possible and allowed to grow for longer will result in a better flavour
Coloured Ryelands
Taste:
they tasted Nice, good depth of flavour but can put down a good bit of fat, if your not careful and do take longer to get to wieght
Management; very tame when handled regular, be very careful with Fly strike so need regular Dagging at the back end etc crovect/clik regular
Wiltshire Horn
for me without doubt a great sheep, Taste Fantastic and tastes like meat used to in the good old days :-)
very hardy and coped with last years drought with no issues at all
very fine fleece that sheds well and very clean back ends
they can also make good crosses with Breeds like Charolias they Poll when using charolias tup
no issues with Feet at present
they are very prolific
i have lambed triplets my first 2 to lamb and the mothers are doing an excellent job i didnt lay a hand on when birthing the ewes did everything themselves
i stand by the Wiltshire horn
i only have a small number so cant compare to commercial flocks etc
i only wished i had your amount of land
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Zwartbles - spectacularly quiet, tall, elegant and pretty sheep that are easily tamed and taste phenomenal. My lambs make 20kg lean carcasses at 5 months old that have tons of taste and don't dry out when cooking. You could either keep them pure or put a commercial tup over them for chunkier lambs. Easy lambing (none of mine have needed assistance the last 2 years) and mostly excellent feet (although you do have to be fussy about where they come from - some of my original stock had feet issues and were culled out for it). They do need plenty of grub though.
They are indeed, very tame, friendly sheep, and the flavour is extraordinarily good - not *quite* in the same league as Shetland etc, but noticeably better than 'regular' lamb. And they are big enough to be away the same year, or most of them, which you would probably want with bigger sheep and a slight question mark over feet.
It was Zwartbles here when I came with my lot. We've culled for problems and now have just one Zwartbles left - but she's a fab sheep. I'd have more like her :)
The problems have included not allowing lambs to suckle (first time mum), difficult births (one strain), bad feet (most of 'em), propensity to get fly struck (one strain), propensity to triplets and not able to rear them.
We had in any case decided to cross them and bring the size down a little. Their frame is so large, it is hard for us smaller folk (all three women who share the sheep care here!) to tip them over. They are quiet enough to do feet like you would a horse, but you do still sometimes need your sheep on her bottom.
And as a dairy breed, on our ground at any rate, their need for additional feed is quite high. It goes into the milk, which goes into the lambs, which grow really well - but it is something you have to watch before and after lambing, or you can end up with ewes losing too much condition and being unable to recover in time for tupping next year.
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if you are new to sheep and if possible, Maybe worth getting a small number of each breed you fancy and rear in the similar conditions
and see what works best for you
also once you have a shortlist get the ones you like the look of nothing worse than not enjoying look at your sheep
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I feel I ought to stick up for Zwartbles, given Sally's comments. However, that's what we keep and I find myself agreeing with almost all of that, Sally!
I now believe that many of the problems with Zs come down to people selecting them for their markings rather than things like good shape and feet. We have similarly culled to get rid of ewes and bloodlines with such issues and are now really happy with our flock.
Once again, this thread shows that we all love our own individual breeds perhaps just a little too much, and really you shouldn't listen to any of us on such matters! ;)