The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: AMunro on December 11, 2007, 07:47:34 pm
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Hi all,
I've been avidly reading your forum posts since I managed to convince my father-in-law (we live very close to them) that what he needed to do with his disused barn was to allow me to keep pigs! The farmer up the road has agreed to let me take on a couple of Saddleback weaners and they'll be ready to leave their ma this weekend. I'm so excited, I cannot tell you. I'm a total townie - well, was, before I moved to the countryside 3 years ago and since getting heavily into 'meat', have yearned to rear my own pigs for their tasty flesh. I'm pretty sure that when the time comes, I'll find it very hard to eat them, but my thinking is that someone will rear them for slaughter and I will most definitely give them more love than that person, so I'd rather do it than anybody else. My friends all think I'm cruel, but I hope (and am pretty sure from what I've read), that I'm amongst people here who understand where I'm coming from.... Anyway (sorry, I do go on), I've ordered the Andy Case book and the farmer who I'm getting them from is very friendly and has given me lots of advice already, but I want to ask a few questions of you guys if I may?
- they are gilts and I'd like to take them to their optimum age / weight / size (not sure which I have to go to!). I think this is about 9 months, but can they go older?
- I've been shown (by the farmer) how much I should be feeding them (a mix of barley and pig pellets - the Allen & Page pellets I believe are the best?), but I'd like to give them as natural a diet as possible (and I want them to be tasty!) - we have a surplus of windfall apples and we're forever throwing peelings into the compost bin, so I know that all of that will be going into the pigs, but is there anything else inparticular that you have found they really enjoy and imparts a good taste into their meat?
- they'll bed in the barn and they'll have access to a reasonably sized plot of what's essentially mud (it's an old potato plot) - my father in law wont let them into the paddock proper because of the destruction - is there anything they'd like me to put on the soil, or will they happily snuffle around it anyway? I feel it might be a bit boring??
- I've been told that everywhere needs to be secure as they're escape artists, but how strong does everything need to be? If they like where they're living, will they still try to escape me?!
- they've never been 'properly' handled - how should I make a start to getting them to love me so I can scratch their tummies etc?
- the 1st night without their mum, are they going to pine? Can I do anything to help?
I'm sure I've got a million more questions, but I hope Andy Case will be able to help me out with most of them!
Looking forward to your replies and I;ll let you know how I get on (if you're interested that is!)
Alex
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Hi, its lovely to read of your enthusiasm. Saddlebacks are lovely, Pigs at Les Rues has one, who is well known as a biter of behinds. Very friendly just an odd sense of humour.
Your set up sounds great. Are you using electric fencing? Make sure they have loads of straw and a draft free area. It might be a good idea to offer them somewhere where they can tuck themselves away and feel safe like a dog kennel (not exactly that but a small area within their area where they can get right out of the way until they feel safe.)
Go in with them, sit, keep a bucket of feed between you and them, let them come to you. Keep talking softly and quietly. Treat them like puppies, they'll soon come to you.
Treats: they love apples, especially gone over the top soft ones, bananas (although Hilary will not eat the skins) chesnuts, acorns, walnuts, any fruit. If you can augment their feed with veggies, bread, anything to enhance their feed they will be delighted it all adds to the taste.
We send ours at 8 months. You can keep them as long as you like, they will get fattier as they get bigger after an optimum weight. It gets harder the longer you keep them.
I remember reading Dan's diary on his pigs when the site first started. Might be a good start. Have fun, they are the most wonderful animals. HM
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Oh my goodness, I'm not using electric fencing - we've got very strong galvanised fencing, and the walls of the barn are mostly stone - is electric fencing really the only way to go? Do they burrow under stuff (sorry, am sure that's a really dumb question, well, I'm hoping it is, otherwise we've got an awful lot more work to do!)
Thank you for your other tips - their bed area will definitely be draught free and I'm got lots of straw for them to bury themselves in, I hope they'll be nice and cosy... This again might be a really stupid question, but am I able to give them nuts in their shells, or should they just get the nut itself?
A x
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Hi Alex
All the above re the tips from Hilarysmum - she started us off so you couldn't wish for better advice.
Re electric fencing - we use two or three strand fencing depending on the size of the pig. The bottom biting Saddleback mentioned is Laura and even three strand fencing she will crash if she fancies the sight of the bucket of food or the wheelbarrow of food coming towards her!! Every pig is a mystery and one might be weeks or months contained in normal fencing and then pow!! it isn't enough. They are cunning little devils and through experience we would recommend at least 2 strand fencing as a precaution. They soon learn believe me, and you will find after a zap or two they will not go to the fencing at all. We have found the wider coloured tape fencing more successful rather than the strands. It may be different for others but it works better for us.
Pigs love the nuts just as they come, shells and all, and at the moment ours are loving their acorns and chestnuts, and also betraves/sugar beat ( manglewurzzles.) The farmers grow the betraves here in Normandy for their dairy cows, and our pigs love them.
With regards to wether certain foods affect the taste of the meat - there are differing opinions about this. We were told that feeding apples before slaughter made a difference to the taste and texture of the meat. I am not sure that it did when comparing it to other meats later on. I am more inclined to think that if your pig is happy then the meat will be perfect what ever it has eaten as long as it is nutritious and balanced. If you have anything to report on this later then please post it.
The Saddlebacks are slow growers so don't be tempted to feed them too much daily because all you will be doing is making them fat - it isn't good for the pig or good for your purse, and at the end your pork will suffer. Even weaners will just eat and eat, it is compulsive with them. We feed our fully grown boars at about a quarter of a ton weight around 4 kilos a day. That is a mix of seasonal fruit/veg/pig nuts/ farine/bread - what ever is available with a blanced combination. We aim to achieve around half an inch of fat with beautiful red meat and so far have achieved that. We slaughter usually from 8 months to the most recent at 18 months. That latter has been hard to part with, but we did this for two reasons -1. to attain the sized gammons for Christmas this year, and 2. to really see if what we have been told is true - that they can be grown on with the right diet, and the meat we have eaten has proven to us that it is successful. I don't think we would go beyond this age and it wouldn't be cost effective to us to this regularly, and it was hard to part with her believe me - she was a lovely.
The only thing I can tell you about the end is that if you don't feel a loss and if you haven't truely loved them and befriended them, then when you have your first meal from them you will not truely appreciate and enjoy what you are eating. For me, everyone is hard, and I do my utmost to use every bit of the pig. For me, the greatest respect and appreciation that I can give the pig is not to waste anything.
The first one will be the hardest and it doesn't get easier, but you learn to live with what you are doing. Your pig will have had the best life, the best diet, the best friend and will be remembered, unlike the intensivly farmed pig which has no quality of life and is annonomous.
Your first pigs will be a delightful/frightening experience. You will do all your learning with them, you will make all your mistakes with them and ultimately they will test you and tease you and ultimately adour you and they will stay in your heart for ever. For all this experience your next pigs will be totally different and just when you think you have cracked it they will throw something else into the mix and you will start learning all over again. This is what makes pig keeping so enjoyable and really quite like nothing else you will ever do!!
Lastly, slaughter your pigs together otherwise it would be devistating for the one left behind.
Good luck and happy days!!
Kate
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Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and helpful tips - something tells me I'll be needing them! I am so grateful to be able to get to know this pair of little pigs - I'm losing sleep already at the thought of sending them to slaughter and I haven't even collected them yet! I hope I shall do the best by them and that they turn out to be happy little (well, big) souls who've enjoyed their life to the full.
The barn is almost ready for them now (I think our handyman is more worried about their comfort than I am!) - and we're all looking forward to their arrival on Saturday morning. Buddy (our dog) knows something's going on - he's going to be in for a shock when they come home!
Will report back to you all with how we get on!
Alex
x
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Molly our springer adopts all the new piglets especially when mum is not around. The mad lab Izzi is more likely to play with them, until they get too big when she finds a friendly slap from them far from rewarding. So dont worry about Buddy, he will probably enjoy them even more than you.
Worrying about slaughter is the one thing that takes the joy from pig keeping, try not to even think about it until the day you book the abattoir. If at all possible when you do take them, try to plan for going to see some replacements. The empty arc can be very depressing otherwise. Oh and its ok to cry when they go. I do. The m an at the abattoir keeps a box of tissues just for me.
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Awww, thanks Hilary's mum. Will try.
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I would absolutely agree about the feeding - we feed 1lb for each month of age per pig per day up to a maximum of 6lbs, If they're getting other stuff, I reduce it a bit. Honestly, you're just wasting money if you feed too much And weight it - don't guess.
We don't use electric fencing - we have post and rail with and extra rail inside and we 've never had any escapees (which means the next lot will get out and roam all over the countryside, wreaking havoc).
Our dog, Tess, loves them - she would happily move in with them until they get big enough to toss her around with their snouts, then she goes off them.
We have a snak-a-ball for ours - keeps them amused for ages and gives them lots of exercise.
Don't worry too much - with healthy weaners, fed properly and kept naturally, you'll be fine. And don't worry about the abbatoir - it won't be as bad as you expect and as Kate says, it's OK to cry.
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Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and helpful tips - something tells me I'll be needing them! I am so grateful to be able to get to know this pair of little pigs - I'm losing sleep already at the thought of sending them to slaughter and I haven't even collected them yet! I hope I shall do the best by them and that they turn out to be happy little (well, big) souls who've enjoyed their life to the full.
The barn is almost ready for them now (I think our handyman is more worried about their comfort than I am!) - and we're all looking forward to their arrival on Saturday morning. Buddy (our dog) knows something's going on - he's going to be in for a shock when they come home!
Don't name them and you will find it easier to take them. Otherwise you will always be wondering who you are eating ;D
Will report back to you all with how we get on!
Alex
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Too late. They're named - I'm in love!! They're called Edward & Tubbs & they're soooooooooooo cute! I've started a blog - www.thevirginporker.blogspot.com - there are a couple of photos on there & I'll add more tomorrow.
Thank you all so much for you advice. x x x
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Have just had a look at the cuties - they are fab. I love the Blog by the way!
Another day tommorrow - enjoy!!
Kate
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A strand of barbed wire at ground level all along the fence also helps discourage rooting under any barriers. Make sure gates are secure and can't be lifted off the hinges (screw the top one in upside down).
And naming them when you've only got a couple is natural. My argument when told it was a bad idea was that I would name them in my head anyway, so there was no point keeping it a secret.
Have fun.
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Me again folks. Edward & Tubbs are coming along fine (I think! It's still a bit worrying that I have absolutely no clue as to what I'm doing!!), but today I caught Edward on top of Tubbs looking like he was you-know-what-ing! When I caught them, he jumped off, and I'm sure he couldn't have been you-know-what-ing, but I'm now a bit worried that he might be a 'quick developer' and will one day actually do the deed.... Am I worrying unnecessarily?!! Is this 'normal' behaviour for a brother & sister so young?! :o
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It is indeed. Our babies begin life by suckling, after the last one is born they start fighting, by day two they are youknowwhating sometimes they even get the right end. Dont worry for now. Love the names. HM
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Oh blimey HM, that's all I need! Another teen mum in the north east of England!
Seriously though, I assume it's not good for a brother & sister to have a litter together (if we humans are anything to go by, surely it could result in complications? Actually, maybe an extra leg wouldn't be a bad thing - think of the extra ham..(!)) I'm kidding! But really, at what age could this become physically possible for my little 'uns?
VP who doesn't want to be a granny before the age of 40! x
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As one who is desperate to be a granny and far more than 40+ but substituting piglets for Grandchildren (some say what is the difference - you can eat a badly behaved piglet NSPCC frown upon this action for grandchildren).
I am not sure with saddlebacks, in my own experience only - tamworths are much slower, tamworth cross gos are much quicker, as early as 5 months, (which is why we separate ours at around this age). This of course could just be our particular genetics.
It is probably best to push them on at around 5 months old and send them off, you will get small pork but delicious. I know this sounds horrendous, so have 2 more (preferably same sex or neutered male) lined up ready so that as soon as the 2 go you have another couple. (Bribe father in law with the gorgeous chops).
Pigs with 5 back legs would be nice, but possibly not practical with the walking? Then again a 2 headed pig would be a disaster. Especially if it followed Kate's saddleback Laura and bit bottoms!!!!!
Dont worry plenty of time yet, just keep your eye open around 5 months. HM
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Our Saddleback X was successfully active at about 6 months old and caused us a nightmare with 5 young gilts. We normally castrate very early, but he just got left for some reason so no one to blame but ourselves, and he broke out one night. The females can come into season just as early and once he got a wiff of the them that was it.
A young male Tamworth from our very first litter was left intact and at the time we chose not to castrate him but knew he had to go to slaughter early. Unfortunately he 'jumped' on his sister litterally en-route to the barn and the result was a litter of five, 3 of which were deformed. One died at two days old, mum sat on her, and the other two are still here - the female is deaf, has no ear holes, has tiny stumpy little ears and has the strangest shape. Her brother is also a strange shape, and has ears that look as if the have been trimmed with a pair of scissors. Both are darlings, but a good advertisement for NOT in breeding.
I think you are going to have to process yours early as HM says, and in future only have females or castrated males. Once the hormones kick in two males together can get very rough with eachother and the tussles can begin quite early on, and the consequence of both sexes you know.
It is all good fun and this is a good learning curve for you. You never stop learning, we still make mistakes and I am sure will continue to do so, that is what makes it fun I suppose!!
Enjoy you pigglys and keep us posted on their goings on - there are bound to be some excellent piggy tales to tell!
Kate
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Hi to all of my friends here - I haven't forgotten all of your fab advice from the beginning of my little journey & for those of you who don't read my blog, here's today's posting... btw, I get 2 more weaners this weekend....
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I woke up this morning with a headache & eyes that looked like a sheep's fanny. I made the big mistake last night of going in to see E & T (can no longer call them by their full names) after a couple of glasses of wine to say goodbye. It was awful, I just couldn't stop crying & felt physically sick at the thought of what I was going to do today. I gave them lots of cuddles & a good brush until Jeff came and rescued me - I think I would have ended up sleeping with them if I'd been left to my own devices...
So this morning, my eyes were puffy & red & I was absolutely dreading Trevor's arrival at 8. With every minute that passed, my heart was beating faster (literally, even though I know that sounds a bit dramatic). When he turned up, I just went into auto-pilot. I didn't think about what we were doing, it was just all hands on deck to try to get these two fairly huge pigs into the back of Trevor's trailer. I thought that not feeding them this morning would've helped, but to be honest it didn't! They came out of their pen ok, but then wanted to sniff & poke at bloody everything in sight. Trevor was behind them trying to push them along a bit faster with a big piece of board & Jeff was at the side of them guiding them in the direction we wanted them to go & I was in front of them with a feed bucket doing my best to get them to follow me. We got them to the foot of the trailer eventually, but getting them up the ramp was not easy. There was quite a bit of protest squealing & grunting & maybe a little bit of swearing but we finally got them up into the trailer. I've no idea how we could've done it any easier - if anyone out there has any tips, they'd be greatly appreciated...
So off Trevor & I went to the abattoir which is only about a 20 minute drive from here. It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it might be, although I was a bit put off by the size of the place. It's apparently a 'medium-sized' abattoir and I understand there are no longer any small ones near here, but I'm going to research that a bit more for my next pigs. There were quite a lot of vehicles pulling in at the same time - not huge trucks, but trailers. Nothing actually happened there which made me worry or believe they were going to be treated badly, nothing like that, but because they had a reasonable amount of livestock to deal with, E & T were left in a holding pen & Trevor & I had to leave them there. I was told they would be there an absolute maximum of 30 minutes, but I wasn't that happy as we drove off. They were actually fine - it's a lovely sunny day here & to be honest, I think they were just wondering what all the fuss was about - they happily trotted off up to the pen & were last seen snuffling around, marveling at the new sights & smells. There were no terrible noises coming from inside the building, I just would have rather them go straight in & be dealt with. Of course I know that nobody was mean to them after I left, but there's always a niggling voice telling you otherwise, isn't there? Especially when you're a worrier like I am! As Trevor said though, it's us who put a human perspective on the whole process - those two pigs were absolutely none the wiser about what was going to happen & I do honestly believe that.
I did get a bit teary after I'd seen their fat bums waddling off up the ramp, but I'm fine now, just a bit shell-shocked I suppose.
I'm still a little bit worried that I wont be able to eat their meat, but I'm sure after a couple of days, I'll feel differently. Trevor will have butchered E for us after they get delivered to him tomorrow & I'm going to pick the meat up on Friday from him. He's going to keep T on ice until the wedding party... So, all being well, we might just be having pork for Sunday lunch this weekend. I'll obviously let you know how that all goes!
So, lessons learned from this experience:
- never go in to say goodbye
- don't get so wound up about the whole thing, it's actually not that bad
- before the day of reckoning, get them used to moving from one area to another!
I'm amazed I've managed to do this, but I'm really proud of myself for doing it. Living in a city, I was so far removed from the food chain & never gave any of this stuff a second thought. This is real life and maybe if everyone got a little closer to it in some small way, we wouldn't have so much animal cruelty in the world, all for the sake of our tummies...
I'll have a drink to my two pigs this evening, I hope you'll all join me.
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I will raise my glass tonight to you and your pigs! Well done!
First time is the worst and reading your post, it was exactly as I felt when we took our first pigs to slaughter. I'm sure you'll be able to enjoy the meat - safe in the knowledge that it was properly taken care of.
Rosemary
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Its the same for everyone, I still resort to a bottle of wine night before slaughter. However, stern talking to here....
Your pigs had a wonderful life, would you rather they had been shut up with 30 others in a barn or stall, never eaten grass, seen the light of day until they went in a crowded lorry to slaughter. You cried, thats good, its a sad day when someone who has taken so much care of an animal can casually wave goodbye at the slaughter house door.
Now eat some chops, remember them with joy, remember too that without people like us, pigs like them dont get the chance of a decent life and death with dignity.
Ok lecture over, just pour a glass of wine and start planning the recipes. You are about to have a taste experience that so few people are ever priviliged enough to enjoy in this mass produced meat world. HM
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Well done Alex. I'm raising a glass to you and yours :)
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I too felt every pang! The end bit doesn't get any easier for me, and I always have a few tears, but for me I have to do the cuddle thing, and I have to give them a little love when they are 'all done' as well. When the meat is in front of me I can say goodbye and move on.
The next bit of the process is really important for me because it is then that I have to work out how I can use every bit of carcuss and not waste any. I just couldn't bare to do that even if it means the scraps go to the dogs. So far I think I have acheived my goal, although up to now I haven't used the blood. That is my goal in the near future to make black pudding then I will feel that I have totally respected my dear little friend and 'done right by him/her'.
There really isn't anything quite like the taste of meat you have raised yourself, and I quite agree with
AMUNRO - I'm amazed I've managed to do this, but I'm really proud of myself for doing it. Living in a city, I was so far removed from the food chain & never gave any of this stuff a second thought. This is real life and maybe if everyone got a little closer to it in some small way, we wouldn't have so much animal cruelty in the world, all for the sake of our tummies...
I lived in a town but it is still the same. There meat is found in the cold counter in the polistyrene dish covered in clingfilm. It is anonomous in every way. It wasn't born, didn't live, it just appeared in Tesco's!
Well done to all of us - our animals have a face, have had a life and they bl***y enjoyed it - and so did we!
Kate :pig: :pig: :pig:
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Ahh, thanks everyone - it's lovely to know you're all out there experiencing the same highs & lows as I have done & will continue to do! I agree that I'm determined not to waste anything - I'm unable to get their blood as it hadn't been pre-arranged with the abattoir (something I didn't realise I had to do - another lesson learned!), but I've given Trevor (the butcher) a list of how I want the meat butchered & even the bits I find too gross to eat (sorry, there's still a bit of townie left in me yet), will be given to Buddy (our dog). I'm even going so far as to make brawn with the head - I've never tried it myself, but if I can get past the thought of what it is, I've a feeling it might be quite tasty & my grandpa who's a bit poorly loves the stuff so I'm making it mostly for him... The other whole pig is going to provide a hog roast for our wedding party guests. A fitting end we feel.
So, onwards & upwards - new weaners (gilts this time! don't want that worry again!) come on Sunday & I'm feeling a little braver now... I'm even thinking about the possibility of breeding from one of them....!
Bye for now. Keep reading my blog if you don't already! (www.thevirginporker.blogspot.com)
Lots of love to you all and your piggies
The (not quite a ) Virgin Porker x x x
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I've only just read all of this as didn't join the forum until earlier this year.....but.....oh how it brought back the memories of those first weaners. :'( :-\ :-[ ::) :o ;D But good for you and I'm SURE you'll eat and thoroughly enjoy your pork :pig: knowing exactly how it was reared and the wonderful life it lead. :pig: If there was a gold star in the Smilies above, I'd put one on here. And now I'm gonna go and read your blog......well in between switching screens everytime someone comes into my office ;D ;D
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Well done VP.
Brilliant job! Can't wait to hear about your new adventures with your gilts - keep us posted.
Pebbles