The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: AndynJ on April 21, 2014, 08:32:40 am
-
As the heading says, not actually leave the hens up there, they would be to order :roflanim:
Do you think this would put off the egg buying customers ?
We are currently taking about £49 a week off eggs at the gate, cant really have many more
We sold some veg last year, will try and sell some this year (we didn't get off to a good start)
We will be trying to sell shrubs as from next week
We have trees we can sell but thought we may just put a small leaflet up and put them as phone to order
We have probably the best spot for farm gate sales
-
Not something I have done myself AndynJ and I haven't heard of anyone else doing it. You need to check out the regulations on this because you may find it is a real minefield. We have killed cockerels for our own consumption and given the odd one away. They would have to be prepped and stored in accordance with hygiene regulations I think. Doubt a sign saying they are available to order would put people off eggs, but you may be a target of some animal rights nutter who previously hadn't made a connection between the two activities.
-
No different to selling other meat ... loads of legislation .... I guess you would not be able to slaughter (but this is a guess) ....
remember over 50 hens has to be registered (with someone!)
-
I think you can. It gets complicated if you want to put them in shops etc. But I believe there is a way you can kill (neck dislocation), process and sell your birds locally as long as it doesn't become a huge enterprise. DEFRA should have a rep in your area who can advise on such matters.
It might be something we are looking at some time although I can't see its ever going to pay hugely, especially with our breeds. We did a lot of RIR and Copper Marans cockerels last year for our own food and they were great but not as much meat as a supermarket lump although tastier. I would be interested to see if there was a market for such birds. I reckoned on £5 feed to get them to kill weight and then there is the processing on top which is mainly time so it's not going to be get rich quick I don't think. Processing would have to be got down to a fine art.
-
well our near neighbours sell turkeys, geese etc literally at their gate but they have refridgerated stores (like the back of a fridge lorry) i know they get professional dispatchers in too as they sell an awful lot volume wise, but then its mainly at xmas.
im sure you have to be a reg food business if you advertise your meat, as then its not just friends/family.
-
I had looked into legislation prior to post in actual fact it is minimal, farm gate sales or direct to the consumer legislation is minimal for all produce
We have over 50 hens now so we have already registered with AHVLA, we have cph No.
I think there is a market, and yes we would use a meat breed, my concerns were just would they sell I that manner.
-
I think if you could demonstrate a high welfare standard then there would be a market. People are starting to care a lot more about how their food is produced I think.
-
I reckon they'd go once the word gets around. More people are looking for locally sourced produce. I have a great market for eggs at the school gate.
Have you any small local businesses? We have an independent pub down the road and they've basically said they'll take anything I can produce (not thinking meat though). They are taking the vast majority of the duck eggs at the moment - featuring on the menu in fact. Just thinking it helps increase your market and because they're not selling on, I've not yet had to get into stamping etc.
-
I don't think the pub should be serving eggs which are not stamped to be honest. Could be wrong but I think if they are buying eggs to give to customers they should be DEFRA registered. Silly rule but there you go.
-
My understanding of looking at the regulations was that it was pretty much impossible for us to comply with on-farm preparation and if we sent them away for doing, there would be no margin left in it for us after paying the processing place. I'd be very interested to hear how you get on with DEFRA/Trading Standards and what requirements you have to meet as I'd love to do this too. Definitely a market for it, I think.
Ben
-
Selling to the pub is a slightly grey area but I think according to this document, I'm OK:
https://www.gov.uk/eggs-trade-regulations (https://www.gov.uk/eggs-trade-regulations)
I'm defra registered because I have over 50 birds (as of last Thursday!) but not for egg selling. According to this paragraph:
'You must also register with EMI as a producer if:
•you have 50 or more hens and any of your eggs are marketed at a local public market
•any of your eggs are marketed to registered packing centres
Note too that if you sell eggs to shops, restaurants or bakeries, you will need to be approved and authorised as a packing centre by EMI in order to be permitted to grade them as Class A eggs.'
I don't sell at a local market nor to registered packing centres so from that perspective I don't have to register. I do sell to a 'restaurant' but I don't grade them as Class A eggs - just as boxes of random duck eggs! On their menu they just appear as duck eggs with no other claims - no free range, rare breed etc. So I think it's OK.
One of the smallholding magazines had a feature a few months ago on the campaign for real eggs (like real ale) with a step by step of what you needed to do to comply with retail legislation. I remember thinking at the time it sounded relatively straight forward but had no need of it then and would come back to it. I've just googled and can't find it (all about real Easter Eggs!) but I'll try and dig it out. I think the gist was just that you had to register with EMI and then stamp the eggs accordingly.
-
I don't think its a grey area at all - there's no difference between a pub and any other catering establishment - unless perhaps it is your own pub and you only serve the eggs as part of a bed and breakfast - in which case, I agree its pretty unclear.
http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/food/industry/sectors/eggspoultry/faq/eggmarking.htm (http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/food/industry/sectors/eggspoultry/faq/eggmarking.htm)
"The Food Hygiene Regulations covering the sale of fresh shell eggs require that all eggs used by catering establishments should be properly boxed and labelled Class ‘A’, however there is an exemption for chicken keepers who run small bed and breakfast establishments on the same site as they keep their flock.
This exemption permits small bed and breakfast establishments (three rooms or fewer) who produce their own eggs to serve these ungraded and unmarked eggs direct to their guests. To ensure that food safety is adequately safeguarded the bed and breakfast should inform individual customers that the eggs are direct from their own hens and are not Class ‘A’. Advice should be offered stating that, because the eggs are not Class ‘A’, the customer might like them properly cooked, particularly if they are in a vulnerable group.
It remains the case that if eggs are purchased from any other sources (including neighbours) then the eggs would have to be graded and stamped as Class ‘A’ before they can be used."
-
No, I'm not saying there's a difference between the pub and any other catering establishment. But the documentation as an egg producer just requires me to register if I claim my eggs are Class A. I'm not claiming that they are so therefore I am not breaking any regulations in selling them. I agree from what you've posted that the pub IS breaking regulations by using my eggs. I'll try and dig out the articles with information about how to register as a small producer because it didn't sound that daunting.
-
That article was by Pammy Riggs. I have been on their poultry dressing and dispatch course and Ritchie and her are very good sources of info on this stuff. Problem is, there is a lot to remember! We did go over the legalities a bit on the course, more with selling birds for meat than eggs. I think they gave us a leaflet which I have somewhere. I thought there was a reason why I shouldn't sell eggs to the B+B up the road who wanted some but maybe it's because we are not registered with DEFRA yet.
-
Regarding eggs it's pretty simple you can sell almost any means as long as it's direct to the consumer
Meat birds (abstract taken from regulatory documentation)
If you have a farm holding and are rearing and slaughtering less than 10,000 poultry and farmed
game birds per annum and these activities are carried out on your farm, you do not require
approval. However, you will need to meet general food hygiene regulations.
The permitted sales entitlements for these exempt producers are those direct to the final consumer
at the holding and also to local retail establishments that are directly supplying the final consumer,
(local is defined as within the County of your holding or neighbouring counties and would include farmers
markets within those boundaries).
Hope this helps
-
I think there are new regulations on how you slaughter too. The place we got our Xmas turkey from only does a few hundred birds a year but they were saying it was becoming increasingly difficult to meet the dispatch regulations - something about the stunning first and then the dispatch.
-
I think you have to have a slaughterman's license to stun? The other way is neck dislocation. decapitation is no longer permitted I don't think. It's all a bit complicated and probably best to get onto DEFRA or whatever and tell them exactly what you want to do.
-
I went to a cutting room a short while ago, they electric cute the hen then decap then pluck, gut & cut, I actually came away and made myself an electric shock line, I'm currently try to build/workout the next bit.
As I understand it the electric shock stops the heart (stuns) they then decap, death (in all about 3 seconds) then they pluck it another 3 seconds, they reckon the electric shock helps the plucking.
According to Defra & environmental health less than 10,000 birds is not slaughtering and therefore you do not need to be a registered house
This thread is good, I didn't expect to get into the ins & outs of it all but it's certainly making me think, hopefully it's helping others look at an additional market. :thumbsup:
-
As I understood it, the electric shock is supposed to render the bird unconscious but the heart still works so when the throat is cut there is no pain but the heart pumps all the blood out, leaving a cleaner carcass. The bird dies from blood loss before regaining consciousness.
How do they pluck in 3 seconds?
-
As I understood it, the electric shock is supposed to render the bird unconscious but the heart still works so when the throat is cut there is no pain but the heart pumps all the blood out, leaving a cleaner carcass. The bird dies from blood loss before regaining consciousness.
How do they pluck in 3 seconds?
Hi I understood stops the heart temporarily, cut throat that stops the heart from restarting = so very similar understanding, would be nice to know for sure.
I cant pluck in 3 seconds in this cutting room they did, birds are held by there legs by the machine, the guys just seem to pull feathers and away they came they did say the electric shock helps as it opens something up, they also said that the electric shock opens the muscle fibres and makes the meat more tender :thinking:
I like to have several opinions then make my mind up about things.
-
Do you already have the facilities in place to do on-farm slaughter? If not, I'd be interested in the rough ballpark of quotes you might get for doing this as its something I still aspire to getting sorted when we next have time and money for a building project. The requirement for three separate areas for killing, hanging and dressing and all the stainless steel kit we'd need to buy scared me off last time I looked at it seriously.
-
I've not looked into it for meat handling (juicing and jams are more my sort of thing) but I have just done my hygiene certificate and will be setting up a separate food processing area so I can meet environmental health regulations (that wouldn't approve of my current set up with cats wandering along the work tops and ducklings housed on the floor!). I'm looking at stainless steel units but hoping to pick up second hand from eBay or just locally. If you put the word around, you might hear of commercial places revamping their current kitchens - our plumber just told me today he knew of a couple of sink units that have been taken out of a pub kitchen he's been working on. You must have a good information network set up already so send the word out & keep your fingers crossed. Not sure what other kit you need for meat processing though - then you need bankrupt butcher shops!
-
Makro sell cheap stainless benches & stainless sheet for backwall.
I looked at a small insulated fridge unit off the back of a wagon it was 1/2 fridge 1/2 freezer the freezer side was knackered so I thought convert that into slaughter/cutting room straight to fridge £400 it was, £80 for stainless for wall & £120 for a bench £30 for sink & tap
-
Wow, much cheaper than I had feared. Might put it back on the job list to sort out when time and money permit. Thanks!
-
did anyone see the "kill it, cook it, eat it" programmes a few years ago? they did pluck in about 3 secs as they had a revolving plucker, and i think they waxed the feathers so every one came off instantly.
takes me about an hour to pluck a bird ::) ::)
-
This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIXvnRilUM0) is quick
-
£350 new :thinking:
-
this is good too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI_HgmshtSo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI_HgmshtSo)
-
£350 new :thinking:
Dunno… I made that one. The motor was the most expensive bit