The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Remy on January 28, 2012, 08:04:44 pm
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Just after the New Year a couple of my sheep (some ewe lambs I bought in last autumn) looked a bit tucked up and quiet. One had scours so although I had wormed them, my vet said to re-worm them all, which I did. Sadly I found her dead the next day. The vet came out to the second one and gave her all kinds of potions - drenches for fluke/coccidiosis and a multivit injection. Poor thing also died the next day - but the vet had managed to get a sample of her scours and it came back as very high worm burden (mostly strongyles).
I then noticed another couple had scours, and took them both into a stable where I could keep a close eye. They picked up, put on weight and after a couple of weeks looked good enough to go back to the field.
Last week, one of the same lambs looked quiet again and her droppings were a bit loose. Yesterday she was back to scouring and today I brought her back to the stable with her companion - she has lost loads of weight again and looks quite poor. She's now been given a couple of drenches and a multi-vit injection and I am keeping fingers crossed!
Is it usual for a lamb that has been treated and recovered to go downhill again so fast, and if so, why? Since the lab test of the lamb that died came back with a very high worm burden I would have thought the wormer should have addressed it. Can sheep become re-infested so quickly even if they have been treated?
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I think this might be damage caused to the gut lining by the worms. Even once the worms have gone the damage is there and can kill the animal. I haven't seen it personally, just read about it.
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Did they go out onto clean pasture after worming or back onto the same fields that they were on before they started to loose condition?
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This sounds like a basic novice error!......we all had to make mistakes and some are expensive sad ones....
Firstly you need to make sure you have enough land for your sheep. 4 big sheep to the acre in winter plus their lmbs in the summer is about right. Divide the land up into 2-3 or more enclosures and worm sheep with a good allround wormer .......did you worm the lambs when you bought them? First rule is to worm ALL bought in sheep as you don't know what they are bringing with them!
Then rotate the grazing allowing at least 3 weeks rest for each enclosure.
Condition score (give em a good poke all over to see how bony/fat they are)
If any scour take sample straught to vet for worm count and treat accordingly....if nothing is found it is possibly just lush grass etc.
You will get to know your land and your sheep. The idea is to try and keep the land clean and therfore the sheep clean. Watch your stocking rates.....more than 4 big sheep to the acre = more problems!
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And if you can diversify your grazing animals so much the better. Ideally, cattle, then sheep, then horses. I haven't enough land for cattle but I follow the sheep with my neighbours ponies. Even geese would do the job.
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This sounds like a basic novice error!......we all had to make mistakes and some are expensive sad ones....
Firstly you need to make sure you have enough land for your sheep. 4 big sheep to the acre in winter plus their lmbs in the summer is about right. Divide the land up into 2-3 or more enclosures and worm sheep with a good allround wormer .......did you worm the lambs when you bought them? First rule is to worm ALL bought in sheep as you don't know what they are bringing with them!
Then rotate the grazing allowing at least 3 weeks rest for each enclosure.
Condition score (give em a good poke all over to see how bony/fat they are)
If any scour take sample straught to vet for worm count and treat accordingly....if nothing is found it is possibly just lush grass etc.
You will get to know your land and your sheep. The idea is to try and keep the land clean and therfore the sheep clean. Watch your stocking rates.....more than 4 big sheep to the acre = more problems!
I had 8 ewe lambs out together in about an acre and a quarter.
Yes all sheep were wormed before going out together BUT the wormer I used initially may have become inert, as it had been opened a bit beyond six months, although none of my other sheep have shown symptoms (I've since got new wormer!). The new sheep were also kept separate from the older ones before turning out together.
I've had sheep and been breeding them for the past five years so am not a total novice - but this is the first year I've brought in ewe lambs from various locations. It seems to be the smaller/poorer ones that have been affected.
I've got horses and ponies and do mixed grazing, and this year will do rotational grazing as I have more sheep (I have approx 15 acres).
I'm wondering if what Fleecewife says (gut lining too badly damaged) is the case - does this mean she will most likely not thrive? I'm just curious as to why she seemed to pick up really well and be back to normal, then go downhill again?
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I don't really know enough about the actual mechanism of the problem to the gut, so it would be well worth a word with your vet to find out if this is likely to be the case. What I understand is that the problem is caused when the worm burden has been heavy prior to worming. I don't know if the effect is permanent, so definitely worth checking with your vet. Next time I see ours I will try to get more details, as this has come up on here before. Maybe someone else knows more.
Our flock is just about closed, with just the occasional tup bought in, and I always worry about what unseen problems we are importing, no matter how well we quarantine when they arrive. I'm sorry you now have this problem :sheep:
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Just to add - watch your stocking densities. I work on just over 3/ac summer and just under 2/ac winter. You could stok more heavily but be prepared to feed them in winter, and i find that the ground can get a bit poached if you have too many.
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Exactly ..... depending on your ground stocking density really is so very important.....and you have to have even lower stocking densities if other stock such as horses around!
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And I pay per head..... ;D
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Exactly ..... depending on your ground stocking density really is so very important.....and you have to have even lower stocking densities if other stock such as horses around!
I don't have all my sheep and horses in together! I have three rams anyway so have to be careful where they are all located. They are in three different fields at the moment and are all being fed hay/haylage and hard feed. I have had horses for the last 19 years and do know about poached ground and supplementary feeding ::)
These problems have occurred since acquiring stock from various sources, my resident flock have never shown any problems. Well I am keeping fingers crossed for my little Gotland, I've done everything I can for her ...
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Hey Remy.....I'm not getting at you relax! :wave: I have just had livestock for over 30 years and have had horses in the past! Lots of people read osts so timely reminders help lots of folks :bouquet:
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Oh she's a Gotland - :love: Best of luck with her.
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Hey Remy.....I'm not getting at you relax! :wave: I have just had livestock for over 30 years and have had horses in the past! Lots of people read osts so timely reminders help lots of folks :bouquet:
Sorry I didn't mean to sound defensive - the written word often doesn't come across how you mean it!
Anyway the little sheep was very very poorly yesterday, would not eat or stand and I thought she would not last the night. She kept lying down on the concrete floor and I had to keep moving her onto the straw under the lamp! I had given her a last resort AB jab into her muscle (it was really hard to find one!), checked her many times before I went to bed and feared the worst this morning.
When I looked out the window first thing there she was grazing!! She's also eaten some mix, I am so relieved ;D ;D I'm quite amazed she's recovered like that as she was so sick :P. I have no idea what worked but something did :).
Just to mention re. Gotlands, they are quite bony across the back compared to other breeds and it's the first time I've had them, so have yet to assess what is 'normal' boniness as the healthy ones can feel quite thin compared to a commercial type breed. The sick one was obviously poor though, and it seemed to happen very quickly.
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Fingers crossed your little girl continues to mend :-*
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Hiya Remy
sorry to hear you lost sheep but glad to hear this one seems to be picking up!
I've been reading this thread with interest as I am so new to having sheep of my own and while the sheep co-operative kept their stock on our land, one of them dropped dead and I am now trying to get ontop of a worm problem with the 2 I've bought from them. So thank you for sharing you experience, its helping me - and I hope that the replies you've received have been helpful to you also :)
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Hiya Remy
sorry to hear you lost sheep but glad to hear this one seems to be picking up!
I've been reading this thread with interest as I am so new to having sheep of my own and while the sheep co-operative kept their stock on our land, one of them dropped dead and I am now trying to get ontop of a worm problem with the 2 I've bought from them. So thank you for sharing you experience, its helping me - and I hope that the replies you've received have been helpful to you also :)
Hi, I'm glad my experiences are of help :). If nothing else the problems I've had with these sheep have taught me to be extra vigilant with them all (I'm paranoid about checking rear ends for scours now!). Also I'm much more aware of looking out for any signs of a sheep being more quiet than usual, or not as enthusiastic about food, as it's been staggering how quickly they can go from being slightly off to knocking at death's door. In my limited experience I have had an adult sheep just drop dead whilst not showing obvious signs of illness, and I've lost a lamb to flystrike very quickly. Flystrike is awful and I've had to deal with it many times, so I can spot the symptoms of that very quickly. It even affected my poor old pony (I didn't know horses could get it, but apparently they can, although it's not common) and I had to shave his entire tail off!
Strangely this little lamb seemed far more poorly than her sister, who died, who knows why some survive and some don't! I do get the impression a lot of them give up quite easily ::)
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It's as the old shepherds say, a sheep has two ambitions to escape and to die ::) ::)
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Glad she is looking better! Do you know David Barlow from the Gotland sheep society? He is a lovely chap and lives near me and is a very useful mine of info re Gotlands. I have had several including a nice ram that I crossed with wensleydales. Gotland should not be bony....they are a different shape to something such as a texel but still not bony! The spinous processes along the back should be very well covered! Do you use a pour on against flystrike? I would recommend using one if you have had a lot of strike occuring. :)
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Glad she is looking better! Do you know David Barlow from the Gotland sheep society? He is a lovely chap and lives near me and is a very useful mine of info re Gotlands. I have had several including a nice ram that I crossed with wensleydales. Gotland should not be bony....they are a different shape to something such as a texel but still not bony! The spinous processes along the back should be very well covered! Do you use a pour on against flystrike? I would recommend using one if you have had a lot of strike occuring. :)
Yes I have spoken to David, he seems very nice. Hmmm, mine are having adlib hay and mix every day, and are still rather boney across the back - even my little ram who is looking rather rotund around the belly area, is also boney in the same area ???. Well I will send David a message and ask his advice!
Yes I use Crovect, but flystrike does seem a bit prevalent here - I will probably have them shorn earlier this year.
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im not sheep expert at all. but when i first got mine, i used panacur yet they always seemed to be too slim. they were alot better after i changed to oramec wormer.
good luck