The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: berni on July 09, 2011, 08:27:55 pm
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Do they work?
My pack is most usless for a smallholding but they are just pets, i have 2 rotty's and EBT and 2 shar pei, i also foster dog's and have at present a cane corso x and 2 staffy x's (they were all due to be PTS)
Before i had the pei's a was on the lookout for a collie pup to train to do agility or start to work but it just didn't work out that way, i only take to look after dog's with issues (normally people ones) and work with them so they are rehomable :)
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I have 2 basset hounds who think that 'work' is a four letter word that shouldn't be used. :) :) :) :)
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i have a lurcher, whos mainly whippet but a 1/4 collie.
shes very fast and is brave in the brush, but unable to outwit a rabbit. one day she'll earn her keep im sure!
any tips? :)
thats one hell of a pack you have there, must be hard work.
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I have a huge, gorgeous German Shepherd.
She was a rescue with huge lack-of-socialisation issues, but when she's just at home with us, you'd never know!
So "work" is an interesting question - she is a brilliant guard dog / postman scarer / barker, and will chase a rat (or pretty much anything) given half a chance....
We sometime borrow next door's JTR for rodent murdering, if the 4 cats are out-witted :)
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We have 2 collie/springer/cocker spaniel crosses :dog: :dog: ;D Useless when it comes to being brave but very very good at chasing and retrieving balls ;D ;D
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I have a Basset hound who's favourite past time is pinching anything edible and a 6 month old Jack Russell who never seems to get tired.
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3- Black labs, two work as gundogs the third is retired
2- cocker spaniels both completely mad but very good hyperactive gundogs
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We have a nine year old Lab/Collie/Dalmation/GSD cross, a five year old Malemute and two Leonbergers (2 and 4).
One of the Leos and the Mal run in harness but not very often.
Ian
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we have a rottie, dobermann/greyhound and a jack russell, they are just our babies, we do all the work you supervise from the settee ;D :wave:
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2 Pointers who think they work although they will point anything from bees in the garden upwards in size.
1 Vallhund who will work stock but I retired after one of the rams decided to chase him - he is far from convinced he is retired but those horns are hard for a 12 year old.
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Two border collies and an elderly retriever. One of the collies works with the sheep (and chickens and ducks and goats....) -he's untrained but very good. The other would if only we had trained her when small - she's a bit mad but not a bad ratter.
The elderly retriever has always just been a pet. In fact, the work is on my part and clearly the retriever name is because you have to retrieve all the socks, tea towels etc that she takes out into the garden/beck/gill, chews and leaves there :D Actually, she makes me smile every day, so she earns her keep ;D
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Current pack is three working collies. My two (dog 7 yrs old and bitch 3) and his one (bitch 5 yrs old). All work sheep with varying degrees of skill, effectiveness and control and my two will work cattle, though the little bitch winds them up too much really.
The farm is on a crossroads of country lanes, but with the big tourist site up the road we get too much traffic to have dogs loose, sadly. So the collies are kennelled when not working / out and about with us and there are no pet dogs :(
My two:
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Thats a very arty photo Sally, wonderful.
I have 4 Labs, Black Male, Black Female, Yellow Female and Chocolate Female...they are wonderful dogs that help me enjoy life!!
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I have four Brittanys (French HPR gundogs) one works, a second is being trained for shooting and agility, one bitch has worked with birsd of prey, the otehr to the gun but had a scare and is now gunshy.
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my rescue lurcher Whippet/ Bedlington x Greyhound (allegedly) has obviously been worked hard & had at least one litter when I got her at 4 years old (allegedly) she has lots of nasty scars presumably from barbed wire etc. so though she will take off after anything from rabbits to deer I try not meet any! I feel mean because it's what she knows but I think she's had her share of injuries & she likes to spend most of her time snuggled up in her bed or sofa if I'm not looking, I think she's earned that
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We have a whippet x Bedlington who's currently fast asleep next to one of the cats in a patch of sunlight on the living room floor. She has hopeless recall, unless it suits her, is an excellent sitter and is 100% reliable with the chickens. She doesn't do much to earn her keep, but I'm absolutely besotted with her!
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a beagle and a black lab
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Two collies - both 11 now. Well, Meg is a collie and Tess was sold to us as a collie, but seems to have more terrier instinct than collie. We did a bit of obedience training and a bit of agility before other time demands took over. They are just pets - our sheep don't need a dog, just a packet of oatcakes ;D
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We have a rescue Doberman boy and a Border terrierist. The border catches rats expertly but the Dobie is just a bony cushion, hilarious and lovely tho!!
Here they are when they arent chewing each other!
(http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o405/lachlanandmarcus/P1010771.jpg)
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We recently lost a very much loved whippet lurcher.... :( :(
But we now have a ten week old Border Collie-flower !! weeeeeelllll she is pretty!!!
look...
and then we have Oddy who is a Border Terrier cross Collie...his photo is attached too!
Emma T
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10 Siberian Huskies, 1 sixteen years old, 4 11 year old and 5 4 year old.
all have been or are working/ racing dogs but all are also pets first
kn
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4 whippets
3 border terriers
1 patterdale
plus a litter of whippet pups all of to new homes tomorrow except 2 (hint hint) as they dont have homes yet
All The Adults are working dogs and help with my work (pestie)
heres one of the whippets earnign his keep
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu110/youngfoot31/100711/DSC_0128.jpg)
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu110/youngfoot31/100711/DSC_0285.jpg)
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu110/youngfoot31/100711/DSC_0268.jpg)
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10 Siberian Huskies, 1 sixteen years old, 4 11 year old and 5 4 year old.
all have been or are working/ racing dogs but all are also pets first
kn
I think it was about 91 when I met Harris Dunlop he came over to the UK and searched me out , to see how I conditioned dogs
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We've got 3 a collie who will semi work sheep and geese, but also a first class beating dog(dog used to flush birds on a shoot for those who didnt know) a cavalier who is a lazy sod but when it comes to ratting he loves it and a lab who is 9 who still is a first class working gundog although she is winding down slowly because she wont accept her age.
Would love a border terrier think they're lovely dogs
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10 Siberian Huskies, 1 sixteen years old, 4 11 year old and 5 4 year old.
all have been or are working/ racing dogs but all are also pets first
kn
I think it was about 91 when I met Harris Dunlop he came over to the UK and searched me out , to see how I conditioned dogs
if you mean harris dunlap and im sure you do then maybe you could share your knowledge even more. he has of course caused so much controversy within our breed.
kn
ps a link to a brief history of the above controversy http://home.swipnet.se/~w-38770/zero.htm (http://home.swipnet.se/~w-38770/zero.htm)
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We have an old man collie who will still chase a ball at every opportunity, a chocolate lab who can catch rabbits but refuses to bring them to you prefering to eat them herself (she is good at eating anything really, rotting carcasses a favourite) and 2 beautiful and crazy springer spaniels who love to work at cuddling and looking cute! We have a German Shepherd bitch booked though and should receive her in Sep/Oct (can't wait). She will be trained for agility if she likes it or another family addition if she doesn't. Love my dogs, so comforting and loveable x
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We have a 9 year old collie springer cross, who is from working parents. She is having a brilliant time with the geese and runner ducks as she seemed to have found her instincts and is helping us no end when it comes to herding them up to put them to bed! She knows to go round them instead of through the middle and creeps towards them instead of charging, so to say she has had no training she is fab!! We also have a 3 year old Newfoundland, who is fantastic, she also tries to help with the herding, but does the exact opposite to the collie ie charging through the middle. She tries so hard to copy the collie but doesnt seem to understand why she is doing it!! They are really funny to watch though, and soppy as hell with all the animals - couldnt fault them at all! ;D
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Current pack is Two Giant Schnauzers and a Northern Inuit ;D
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Oh, I love Northern Inuits - my next dog ;D
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We have two rescue collies, the male works cattle well, a bit too keen for sheep and a bitch who works sheep if she's in the mood for it. She is really gunshy and we have a shoot nearby, so some days we don't even take her with us.
I once saw a staffy x on an estate in wiltshire work sheep as well as any collie. We were gobsmacked i didn't know this breed would work sheep but he brought them in and penned them and i think he was crossed with a terrier breed!!
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After three years of no dogs -we were in rented and would not let us have a dog (previous Whippet lurcher had died aged 18) we now have two complete nutters. they are spinger spaniels. We also spend time retrieving garments and shoes from the garden. They are nearly a year old and love to chase. One will do anything for a ball the other does anything provided she wants to - she only chases the ball at times and only then to stop the other dog from having it. But she smiles and is really lovely natured. They are very headstrong and despite specialist training may not make it to be really helpful on the holding. except for alerting us to the cock crowing and any strange noises they hear.
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Oh, I love Northern Inuits - my next dog ;D
They are hard work,I prefere my Giant Schnauzers (but don't tell Lady ;) ) I've never been so ashamed when she took 18mnths to pass her Bronze KC certificate and even the instructer was suprised when she eventually managed it! I mean BRONZE!!!!!.....it is such baby basic work my Lowchen ,australians and giants could learn it in a week!
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/jinglejoys/Dogs/BlueinSaddlecharriot1stJuly07019.jpg)
I mean'does this look the picture of intelligenceto you? ;D
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I have a German Shepherd and a Jack Russell who thinks he is German Shepherd. I retire in 18 months time and plan to get another small dog to keep Jake company in his old age. At the moment he is 8, Shepherd 10. He has always lived with three dogs so would not like to have him on his own. Tanya the Shepherd has bad hips so I would not think she would get past 12, she was rescued as a 6 month old puppy. Had lots of mental problems due to her owners leaving her all day on her own, one without water which caused her to try and drink lots when it was there. She had been beaten and if you even raised your voice she hit the deck and wet herself. We love her and put up with all her quirks, not many people would cope.
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heh heh it's a real treat seeing the pictures of everyone's lovely dogs.
I have a deaf/blind/arthritic retired border collie Judy, she's almost 17. She's happy and thats the main thing, sleeps upstaris in our bedroom now. She's earned it.
*He* has a very large black working lab retriever called Morse, and an 18 month collie called Scholar who is just learning the ropes with the sheep.
In about 5 weeks I'll be getting my first ever cocker spaniel puppy. Working. *Himself* never lets me have Morse to do a retrieve when we're on a shoot, so I'm getting my own gofer.
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Tanya was rescued as a 6 month old puppy. Had lots of mental problems. She had been beaten and if you even raised your voice she hit the deck and wet herself. We love her and put up with all her quirks, not many people would cope.
got one like that here .... its sickening >:(
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Tanya was rescued as a 6 month old puppy. Had lots of mental problems. She had been beaten and if you even raised your voice she hit the deck and wet herself. We love her and put up with all her quirks, not many people would cope.
got one like that here .... its sickening >:(
But they both have happy loving homes now.
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An American Bulldog and a 3 legged Akita x Lab both rescues, both bone idle and both have issues but they are mine and I love em!!!!
Even if I have to put the curtains back up everytime I get home ;D ;D
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1 boxer boy-8.5yrs
1 b&w collie bitch-4yrs
1 red merle collie boy-6 months......weirdest dog ive ever owned! ;)
2 collie x boxer bitches-2yrs-(sisters!)-mental!! ;D
1 doberman bitch-8yrs...absolute nutter!..got her from rescue at 1yr old
bosworth
mollie
rodney
abby and ellie
lottie..(dottie lottie) :D :D :dog:
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Italian Spinones, Compo & Duffy, Compo because she looks and smelly like a grubby old man! Uselessly gun shy Duffy was the product of divorce neither of them wanted him! I did Kent to Kinross in 23hrs 40mins to get him.
Otta, German wire haired pointer, stupidly mental dog clears out 6ft garden gate for fun, but is terrified of all the ginger pigs as she played rough with a young pig we had in the garden which was being hand reared. The pig never forgot and got her back when she had size on her side, so Otta pops wont go near any of them which is no bad thing really!
Himself has a Border collie Smudge who will have a go at working anything kids pigs ponies
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3 Irish Terriers - Erin - 6, Willow - 4, Orla - 2 and Poppy - 9 weeks (needs a new home!!) - absolute darlings - ideal smallholding dogs
1 Irish Water Spanial - Duana - 6 months - mad but an absolute sweety - she's made my world complete#
Soon to inherit Hamish - 4 - Scottish Terrier
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we have a cool dude lhaso apso, a daft gsd and a choc lab whos the best dog ever. :wave: :love: :dog: :love: :wave:
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gorgeous :D
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Wow, lovely mixture out there, working and rescue :) one day i will have a working dog ;) i've always wanted a working cocker but the time is not right at the moment as the last 3 permanent members have only been here from the last 4 months, Jess (rotty) came as a poundie who was a biter, i only take the ones with issues for a bit of recoup before finding them rescue spaces with a foster home but she is scared of strangers and i will not risk such a lovely dog being pts because of being in the wrong home, so she's staying, she is great with us all here :)
The only 1 who wants to work is the pei baby, she's 6 months, but they were used in china as sheepdogs for a few years after they were not needed to guard the palaces :)
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I've really been enjoying this thread - come on the rest of you, spill! ;D :dog: :dog:
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This is Fletcher, my Bouvier de Flandres. he's now a fully trained groom and back stepper.
The dog bed is bolted on
(http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/lazybee_photo/PICT0229-1.jpg)
Having a little word before the off
(http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/lazybee_photo/PICT0226.jpg)
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they are fantastic photos :wave:
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we have a westie x yorkshire terrier, dont know if you have seen one of these but they are lovely, ours is brindle which apparantley is very rare! she has a brilliant personality and a real character! i would recommend this cross to anybody!!
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we have a westie x yorkshire terrier, dont know if you have seen one of these but they are lovely, ours is brindle which apparantley is very rare! she has a brilliant personality and a real character! i would recommend this cross to anybody!!
That does sound like a super cross - and hopefully the hybrid vigour overcomes the Westie's poor skin problems? (Without which I would never be without a Westie - I have adored every one I have ever known, but would be too miserable about the itchy skin to have one of my own.)
So if a Labradoodle is Lab x Poodle, is a Yorkie x Westie a Yorkshire Highland Terrier? Or a Westkey? Yorkstie? :D
I used to have a rescue bitzer, told people he was an East Anglian Mountain Dog. Only about 5% of people did a double take then grinned. ;)
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just 55 steps away from a Heinz 57!
Call them what you like but they're still crosses
... and make lovely dogs :)
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You may joke but there is seriously a designer cross is being sold as a Norfolk Mountain Dog in Norfolk. They are a Shar Pei cross Beagle!!. I can't think how people do not think this is a p---- take, but they don't seem to.
Rose
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designer mongrels seem to sell for a good price. our mongrel that we had as kids cost £7 but she was worth every penny. lol ;D ;D
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As puppy has just gone (last one to home) we now have 8 dogs!!
13 year collie - ex rescue & obedience competitive obedience dog
11 year collie - ex obedience dog
7 year English Springer - occasional obedience dog
6 year old collie - works sheep but not so well since her epilepsy needing drugs
2 year old English Springers
2 nine week old English Springers
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Even designer dogs aren't selling just now. A friend of mine still has 6 labradoodle pups whch should have gone at 8 weeks and are now 12 weeks, I believe one may have been sold. I saw them a couple of weeks ago and to be honest if I'd just wanted a gundog to do picking up or beating these would have been perfect. I've always said that a dog that looks at you all the time (it's called focus) is half way to being a top working dog (like Sandy's chocolate lab youngster, Rhum, she should be worked) It still takes time to train them properly but these pups followed us around the farm while we were getting haynets and water bucketrs for the horses, and came instanly when called to go back in their run! ::)
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We've got 4 Setters - 1 Irish bitch - Amber, 1 English bitch - Summer & 2 English Dogs (father & son) Harvey & Rupert. Both of the girls are partly trained to beat, but are absoloutely hopeless at picking-up. The 2 boys are hopeless, full stop - once off the lead they seem to go deaf, either that or they're so daft they forget their names ::)
But we still love them all & wouldn't be without them.
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Setters aren't meant to retrieve anyway ;). They sett ( :o ) - similar to pointing. well done for working them.
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My dog Oddy is a cross between a collie and a border terrier. A weird sort of grey and black brindle. Every year I clip him out for the summer season because he gets so hot. A few years back I had inadvertently left a tuft on the end of his tail. He sort of look quite cute like that.....anyway at a horse show i was constantly getting admiring comments about my unusual dog! Eventually someone asked what breed he was because they were looking for something exactly like him.
'He's a Manchurian Gerbil Hound'
'Oh wow, thats perfect, I will look up my local breeder when i get home'
::) ::) ::)
Emma T
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You may joke but there is seriously a designer cross is being sold as a Norfolk Mountain Dog in Norfolk. They are a Shar Pei cross Beagle!!. I can't think how people do not think this is a p---- take, but they don't seem to.
Rose
i think anyone that put norfolk and mountain in the same sentence has to be p--- taking.
kn
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should be a 'sharp-eagle' :D :D ;)
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We have 2 black labs with a little bit of collie (1/8th) in, Shadow and Echo, brother and sister age 10 and 6. Look like full labs but amazing at agility, people are surprised at their ability to twist over the jumps like collies :) they don't really work but echo the girl will foster any orphan going, love it, clean it and sleep with them. Speciality is orphan bottle fed lambs in the spring, she's speyed and never had puppies but has an amazing maternal instinct. Shadow is used for any school or nursery talks we do at work (vets) he'll safely and happily lie in the middle of a class of 30 children with each child stroking a different bit of him. Worth his weight in gold.
Love them both.
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I've always said that a dog that looks at you all the time (it's called focus) is half way to being a top working dog (like Sandy's chocolate lab youngster, Rhum, she should be worked)
Just took 2 photos and guess who has her eye on me? She nearly always brings me some dead thing from our walks, the other day was some roasted ribs of possibly a Deer, they actualy smelt OK so not long been "poached" ;)
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I've always said that a dog that looks at you all the time (it's called focus) is half way to being a top working dog (like Sandy's chocolate lab youngster, Rhum, she should be worked)
Just took 2 photos and guess who has her eye on me? She nearly always brings me some dead thing from our walks, the other day was some roasted ribs of possibly a Deer, they actualy smelt OK so not long been "poached" ;)
Told you! ;D That dog is wasted! Don't suppose she knows it though! ;D She's perfectly happy as she is! ;D Such a sweetiepie.
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I have a wolf hybrid, a gsd, a rottweiler, a cocker spaniel, a jack russel, collie and a westie. The rotty and gsd a guard dogs in the courtyard, the wolf hybrid is my guard ;) The cocker spaniel pretends to work, the collie rounds up ducks and chickens and pigs but no sheep. The jack russell and the wolf hybrid do rat as well. And the westie lays there looking cute. All of these are rescues and I wouldn't be without any of them.
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We have an 8 yr old Yellow Lab ex gun dog,she is incredibly nervous due to ill treatment from her ex owners.She runs from the chickens and geese though is ok with the ducks.Loves her cuddles and showing off,she really is a Mummy's girl!
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Arh, she looks so gentle too, bless her.
I find my eldest Black lab can be nervouse, particularly if some one raises thier voice, not sure about guns though as she appears confident, my point is, she is never told off, shouted at or badly treated and so I cannot understand why she is like it at all? If I tell one of the others off, say for eating something they shouldn't, she runs off and needs coaxing to return!!!!!
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Arh, she looks so gentle too, bless her.
I find my eldest Black lab can be nervouse, particularly if some one raises thier voice, not sure about guns though as she appears confident, my point is, she is never told off, shouted at or badly treated and so I cannot understand why she is like it at all? If I tell one of the others off, say for eating something they shouldn't, she runs off and needs coaxing to return!!!!!
She is Sandy,she has had the odd accident in the house in the past,and I always knew as she was hiding and shaking uncontrollably,I have to hug her and tell her,it's ok,it is only an accident!I never shout or tell her off,after all,I think she has already been through enough.Though I have had to tell her,that's naughty and bless,she screws her face up which is so cute.(not her fault she is partial to dry chicken poop!)
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oops - haven't looked at the dog thread for a while.
This is Jess; a 'strawberry blond' GSD (as my neighbor described her).
She doesn't do anything practical but be friendly to other animals except sheep and rabbits - she's encouraged to chase rabbits, and she was friendly to sheep until Elfie (my tamest ewe) butted her - now she runs away from sheep.
mab
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She's beautiful (I know I'm biased!)
:D
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All are pets. Tammy is a 15year old collie, totally deaf and almost blind. Smokey and Tyson are sibling yorkies, nearly 9 years old, and the 'asbo' of the family is Cindy, nearly 2 years old, 3/4 cocker, and 1/4 springer (sprocker) ;D
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We've got two - pets only - a Samoyed about 11 years old now, and past chasing rabbits. The other is a cross between a jack russell & a springer - doesn't know whether he's coming or going. He's quick though - had a rabbit but didn't kill it - waited for the Samoyed to do that for him!
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I have a 2 year old lab called mephis and a new spaniel pup next week called pippa !!
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We have Bonnie who is 14 and collie cross spaniel cross same collie and is a lovely dog despite displaying several reasons why in-breeding is a bad thing. Shes mostly deaf and fairly blind and sleeps a lot. RSPCA rescue.
Finn is working ESS type, very timid and neurotic. Shows signs of electric collar training gone badly wrong and has been badly beaten He's very loyal, affectionate and completely useless. Obsessively spins anticlockwise, terrified of horses and sheep, worried by cats and chickens and loves cars Blue Cross.
Mikey is a terrier with the colouring of a Rottweiler. Been abused and stayed with NAWT 3 years cos he bites. Has discovered that responding to affection gets him liked so bites a lot less. Good mouser and rather obsessive vermin hunter but can now be trusted out on his own.
We're suckers for hard cases.
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That's three lucky dogs, waterhouse :bouquet:
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They've enriched our lives too. I never had pets as a kid so making up for lost time perhaps. OH's fault, of course.
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I'm a sucker for the problem dogs too, i have at teh moment a staffy x lad, he'd been a stray living on a motorway embankment for at least 4 months, he's a very scared lad :( he'll be staying for a while until the right home comes along for him :) and a chi x lad who'd been left in a garden :( wasn't allowed in the house as he's not housetrained, apparently they train themselves :(
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We have two great danes a springer spaniel and a beagle x lab also not the best dogs for a small holding but they are our babies :love:
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Lots of great pics and stories :)
We have 3 JR's. Mum who is a pet, and her son and daughter. Both would rat methinks, but no rattys here, and hope it stays that way!
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I came across 3 JR's while out walking with our 4 Labs, the JR's barked furiously and my labs were shocked, then I started chatting to the owner and they all just milled around not even sniffing each other, Labs are wooshies!! sill love um though
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Our Mutt is a first cross blue merle pedigreed sheep dog off the Brecon beacons with a pedigreed golden retriever as mum.
He is massive , weighs nearly 30 kg and is still growing (just over a year old )
we were told he barks a lot .. that was an understatement he had been running along with his full working father on a sheep & cow farm for around three months before he came to us .
I've got his barking sorted most of the time , he'll do most things asked of him but as son as next door bung their mutt of a staffy out on it's own to crap in their garden it starts barking and if " Merle " is laid quietly in the garden with me & off his lead he replies to the challenge with gusto sometimes flinging himself at the six foot dividing fence like a cage wrestler .
If he is on the lead ( now most of the time ) he just sits and looks in the mutts direction and lays down.
I'd hate to be grabbed /bitten by Merle for he's frequently demolished one of the largest sized " Kong extreme " hard rubber chewing lumps in three or four days, yet to see him now laid on my feet you'd think butter would not melt in his mouth.
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Ive got a couple of patterdale terriers mother and daughter both bushing dogs getting on a bit know 12 & 7 years old, also a couple of whippets mother and daughter rabbiting dogs work with ferrets etc. 10 & 5 years old. I like to go on long walks with my dogs and a walk is only worth doing if you have a dog with you as far as I'm concerned. I much prefer the company of my dogs to certain people.
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Ben. Working sheep and poultry guarddog
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/castlefarmpoultry/100_2436.jpg)
Mac. Pure Whippet. Pest control officer.
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/castlefarmpoultry/Oct08063.jpg)
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/castlefarmpoultry/Oct08067.jpg).
Mist. Working collie. Still in training, but getting there.
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/castlefarmpoultry/100_2677.jpg)
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/castlefarmpoultry/100_2581.jpg)
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I much prefer the company of my dogs to certain people.
I so agree.
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We have 2 liver/white Springer Spaniels, Mother and son. Mother is now going on 14 and is retired, but the son is just coming up 9 and still loves a day's beating on the local shoot - despite having a touch of arthritis and an underactive thyroid gland! Will soon need to bring on a pup, but it's a lottery finding the right one!!
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa43/crazysheep-795/P6140206.jpg)
Carrie (mother) in foreground, and Bob (son) bringing up the rear!