The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Wildlife => Topic started by: HesterF on August 04, 2013, 12:02:09 am
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Just wondering! My garden is full of foxes and badgers at night - judging by the poo everywhere. So no doubt my cats are out there with them. And if a fox can pick off a goose, they're clearly capable of taking something the size of a cat. So why don't they? Is it just that in nature it's not good to eat other predators food chain wise?
H
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Foxes are sly cunning opportunists but not particularly stupid and will avoid a fight if they can and a cat will give them a very good fight. Mr fox has to be fit to hunt so will avoid any chance of being injured having said this some cats do get taken by foxes most probably I'll cats. I would think a badger would be to slow if it fancied a munch on a cat, both will eat a dead road kill cat. My big lurcher will not go near our cat and he is ten times her size, it's not just teeth it's the claws.
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Animals understand that in the wild being injured usually means being unable to survive. Even animals that we think of as top predators will choose the safer kill if they have a choice. I have heard of eagles trying to take dogs but they would only do that if it was the only option short of starving to death because the dog might kill the eagle - given the choice they will go for carrion every time - it is easier and safer.
Try strangling a cat*, you will probably succeed but not before finding yourself covered in your own blood.
I addition if a cat sees you as a threat you will struggle to catch it.
It is just not worth the injuries and hassle when a fox or badger could catch a frog or a baby rabbit or find something in a bin.
*or perhaps I should say "imagine what would happen if you tried to strangle a cat"
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The cats are out hunting too and are much smaller and quicker than a fox. They probably see the fox like an unknown dog and avoid them. More often than not if a dog chases a cat the cat gets away over or under somewhere a dog cannot reach.
And, as above comments, the fox is after the easy option.
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foxes do take cats. Mrs M has lost them to foxes before. However, a fox will always go for an easy meal 1st, it would have to be hungry to go after a cat.
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An interesting question is why foxes will not touch a dead fox, needless to say they are quite happy with most dead things?
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The carnivore eating a carnivore thing isn't generally done in nature I don't think. Perhaps that's a reason?
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there are lots of examples of carnivores eating carnivores. I've seen footage of lions killing and eating smaller cats, hyenas, etc, Wolves eating coyotes, crocs eating snakes, snakes eating crocs. The only reason smaller carnivores don't form the staple diet of a larger one is that they are not as numerous as herbivores.
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Interestingly I spotted a clip on MSN yesterday of cat vs. fox. Cat was almost identical to one of mine - big ginger tom, fox was a sad looking specimen. Both on top of a wall, fox wanted to get past cat. Cat refused to budge, fox tried again, cat went for fox who turned tail and ran. So good job cat! Except mine is currently asleep on a chair. Now if only I could get them to keep the badger off my veges (he's worked his way through the peas and beans and is moving onto the sweetcorn)......
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i was thinking this this morning as 3 cats have gone missing, so wondering if maybe a fox took it. there has been a tame fox around before.
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My hubby remembers the days when he was a nipper, that his father and grandfather would always bait a fox trap with a dead cat. He said there was nothing better to bring foxes in while they waited with the guns.
Thankfully my OH isn't in to using cats as bait. He doesn't particuarly like cats, but he's not that barbaric.
But in those days cats were common place on farms and with no birth control for them, it was one way of controlling the cat and fox population in one hit.
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Is there a carnivore wouldn't doesnt eat another carnivore?
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I think cats are too quick to be honest - its not an impossibility - but cats are not exactly slow and they can jump a damn lot higher.
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a few years ago our little cat about 7 yr old, went out. tried calling her in 10 mins later (it was about 6pm, new years eve), never saw her again, she NEVER went far, had a little hidey hole near the house, would 'go' just in the field near the house, might occasionaly follow us down the field a way, but never on her own. EVERYBODY local said 'fox'.
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our gorgeous little cat disappeared almost 2 weeks ago. she was always around so unlikely she would have moved house or wandered off- run over is of course possible but we don't live on or near a road- we have been thinking that predation is a strong possibility- our money's on badgers as they're everywhere but a fox can't be ruled out either
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It would be handy if foxes did eat cats, we've lost far more poultry to feral cats than to foxes, we have opened nest boxes and found them feasting on the carcase and so has a neighbour. The bulk of a foxes diet is small rodents and birds. 10% of their diet is insects and invertebrates and they will eat berries etc too. If they didn't indulge in killing frenzies in poultry houses I suspect they wouldn't have such a bad reputation.
I guess the short answer is that cats are better scrappers.
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The bulk of a foxes diet is small rodents and birds. 10% of their diet is insects and invertebrates and they will eat berries etc too. If they didn't indulge in killing frenzies in poultry houses I suspect they wouldn't have such a bad reputation.
Unfortunately they do also take lambs >:(
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We lost 3 kittens recently and I am suspecting the fox :'(
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30 years ago we used to get the council pest control men into my shop to buy dog food - whatever people now think about dog on animal, back then they used terriers to locate the foxes, hold them at bay and the men would dig down to get at and "remove" the fox if it was causing a nuisance. It was a legitimate part of council pest control. According to them, foxes would certainly take cats and all the evidence was there. It left a lasting impression on me as a young teenager. (So did the men - funny old characters!!) Having said this, I saw my big Tabby (in his prime) see off two nearly full grown foxes at the same time out of next door's garden last year. It was an impressive sight. Foxes will always look for an easy option first.
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Foxes will go for young, small, weak or elderly cats, same as they'd pick out the most vulnerable animal out of any group of potential prey animals. A big healthy cat with a bit of attitude will see off a fox though, foxes don't want the hassle of a major scrap with anything that will do damage. I saw our cat Missy see off a dog fox from HER garden once, Missy wasn't particularly large but we didn't call her Pissed Off Missy for nothing.
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we didn't call her Pissed Off Missy for nothing.
lol.
Similarly, our Scarey Cat Jacob (RIP, the small furries of the neighbourhood were much relieved)
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I never see the point in killing foxes as another will just move into it's territory as soon as it is gone - unless it gives some temporary relief until the newcomer discovers the easy pickings or gets braver. I reckon that if we make it as difficult as possible for the fox to get our livestock he will go where there are easier pickings instead. It seems to be working so far ..... lets hope I didn't just tempt fate saying that :fc:
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I agree Julie, not that I'm sentimental about seeing off mr fox, but the way to protect my livestock is to protect my livestock. We, like many I'm sure live with foxes everywhere as well as a large population of badgers (we have a sett on our land and were rather hoping they might start the pilot cull in our field). My neighbour down the lane currently is chicken less- having recently been cleared out for the 3rd time in less than 4 years. We, in the same time have lost precisely 0 hens to predators. Our hens live in fort knox, a huge 7 ft high run that took me months to build but keeps them safe from mr fox. At lambing despite our sheep being more than capable of lambing outside we keep all lambs in for first few days until they find their legs and can outrun the badger
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I keep my poultry for pleasure, to see them enclosed bothers me as much as it does them, last year the fox came early evening 8-8.30pm, early june so still sunny, just about wiped everything out, I gave the remaining call duck to a friend, hatched a few eggs so I now have 3 hens, who are free range, they are fastened in a large weldmesh cage at night, but when a fox comes so early it needs dealing with, (and it was, a large dog fox).
But coming back to cats, thats the only thing that could have taken our little girl, I will admit she was smallish and grey, but about 7yr, and used to playing with the dog maybe she didn't realise the danger, (though that would surprise me as she normally disappeared at the sight of anyone strange) but the worrying thing was how close to the house the fox must have been, within minutes of the sound of my voice, as I talked to her as I let her out. How I wish I hadn't given in to her that night and let her out. I have since seen fox scat within 3 feet of the house :( .
While not a supporter of hunting I do believe they need controlling, as the numbers rise they will turn to other prey to survive. Maybe in a garden situation other people may be feeding them so they aren't as hungry?
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Technically there's no escaping the fact that our hens are enclosed but the run is so large and planted with trees and bushes that I genuinely believe it gives them a fabulous but safe home. It also allows us to enjoy our lovely girls for many years as well as grow veg and have an intact garden. This time of year I have them out with me in the veg patch as there's little damage they can do. After an hour or so of total freedom they usually head back in to where they feel safe. I'd never forgive myself if I simply allowed the fox to pick them off one by one