The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Land Management => Topic started by: Workhorse on January 05, 2013, 10:38:45 pm
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Hi I am new here :wave:
We rent nearly ten acres of pasture/meadow and have managed over the years to get the thistle and nettle to the minimum, but are struggling with buttercup , although last year it didnt seem quite so bad!
We keep horses and they are kept in a third of the field in the summer, and the rest is either topped or as last year we took a cut of hayledge/hay. After about october/november the horses have the whole field until the spring growth when they go back into the small third!
So how do we conquer the dreaded creeping buttercup?
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I am told that liming is the only way.
BH won't lime my paddocks so I've got the pigs on rotovating duty :D There is noticeably less buttercup where they've been - but I don't know how long it'll be before it comes back to 100% when I replace the pigs with the ponies.
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Creeping buttercup is awful stuff. I'm told it is much more common with horses on the land as well. Liming does work, but it is slow. Rosemary had some figures on how much lime to apply per acre, and how much it will change your ph by, but I can't remember those figures off the top of my head. We try and lime every autumn, and sometimes in spring as well. Fertilising is good too- we just spread some rotted down manure. You can also harrow to try and get rid of some of the buttercups as well. One thing I noticed, is when we had sheep on our field , and they keep the grass trimmed a lot further down is that the buttercups didn't get a chance to flower, so at least they weren't producing more seeds.
Beth
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We used to let two of our fields out for horse grazing for a few years and over that tim the buttercups took over the place. The horses didn't eat them. We don't keep any grazing animals so not a big problem and our pigs have cleared the buttercups along with everything else. The pigs will be followed by various things such as stubble turnip, clover etc, then back to pigs afterwards, and it'll be interesting to see how much buttercup comes back.
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Thank guys :) Not sure if we are allowed to lime or put down artificial as it is old meadow land so can only be used for grazing! Would like to put sheep on it but there are footpaths which means quite a lot of dog ****! :(
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We keep horses and were over run with buttercups. We used Headland Transfer weedkiller last year. You have to keep livestock off for 14 days (we left them off for a month) with 80% success. Hope this helps.
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.......we used Headland Transfer weedkiller last year. You have to keep livestock off for 14 days (we left them off for a month) with 80% success.......
Where did you buy your Headland Transfer from VinnyD?
We've used Depitox this year. Leaves started to curl on first day, but early days yet to see outcome.
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how much lime do you have to use and how long before you can put grazing animals back on, thanks :wave:
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Would it be better to plough, then lime and reseed? or just put lime on the buttercup field
well ingredient labels say that the most plentiful ingredient must come first.
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how much lime do you have to use
It depends on the pH of the soil - you need to get that tested first.
This website has a calculator which may give you some idea of how much lime is needed with different pH and soil types.
http://www.aglime.org.uk/lime_calculator.php (http://www.aglime.org.uk/lime_calculator.php)
HTH
Sue
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weve just had granular lime applied and it doesnt affect grazing (you dont even have to move them)
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Was that much more expensive FIB?
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I had 24 acres sprayed last year with Thistlex and Pastor which had a really bad buttercup problem. So far they haven't returned!
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We had a bad problem with buttercups last year when we moved in. The previous occupants had horses on the ground. We then bought sheep and this year I haven't seen one buttercup, despite there being loads out in the lane.
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I wish i could put sheep on, but nobody wants to graze it with all the footpaths and dogs!! :(
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where abouts are you?
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hi i would be interested jan where abouts are you?
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where abouts are you?
Me?? South Dorset!
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ah shame im in cambridgeshire and looking for extra sheep grazing! but your far to far!!
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It seems no-one wants creeping buttercup, whats the problem with it? I've never had to worry about it!
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OhLaLa
We had loads of buttercups on our 5 acres. We had an agronomist come do a soil sample who works for a local firm and his employers have all the chemicals(fetilizer and weedkillers). When I needed more I went on to their web site but could not find any, they told me that I had to pick it up as they could not sell it online something to do with certain chemicals. We are in west Wales and the firm is called PRag.
Hope this helps.
Mark.
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Hi Workhorse :wave: - we might be :horse: neighbours (oh, pardon the pun!). Perhaps you could borrow our shetland ram, he will soon see off the dog walkers ;D ;D
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http://www.pasture4horses.com/weeds/creeping-buttercup.php (http://www.pasture4horses.com/weeds/creeping-buttercup.php)
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http://www.pasture4horses.com/weeds/creeping-buttercup.php (http://www.pasture4horses.com/weeds/creeping-buttercup.php)
"The irritant contents of the plant's sap is rendered inactive by drying, therefore the weed is not a risk in hay."
That's encouraging
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My field is absolutely covered with them this year - never before. If I spray it - is there an ideal time of year?
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hi sorry to sound daft but we have a lot of buttercup, i think there are definitely two
or three type one meadow, other possibly creeping, before there were horses and we have taken it over this year, I have sheep and can put them there but was going to cut some of it for hay would it be a problem? and why is it better to put the sheep on it.?
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Castlefarms link above says buttercup is fine for hay
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good point my speed readings not up to scratch,
but still, why is it OK for sheep? fresh,
or is it just a horse problem.?
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Hrses are strange coves! ;D (ie I have no idea - sorry)
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Neither our sheep nor the horses will touch buttercup.
But what the presence of the buttercup is telling you is that the soil is too acid. So weedkiller is only a short-term answer
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yep you're right it's definitely acid around here, but the pasture is old at least 17th cent, as I have seen the old planning maps. And next to a river, so can't use chems and don't really want to. How to manage this type of pasture? :thinking:
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I was also wondering what the prob was other than not wanting them to outcompete other (more nutritious?) sp and reducing biodiversity? Our sheep do eat them, so its only the resting and hay fields. We are giving a light dressing (farmer can only bring 1 dumpy bag each time - so at 600 kg over 6 acres - its going to take a while!!!) of granulated lime spring and autumn in the hope that it will redress the balance over time ( im hoping that there is a cululative effect cause I think we should be putting about 4 T/acre to make a one off change), meanwhile enjoying them.
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Hi Workhorse :wave: - we might be :horse: neighbours (oh, pardon the pun!). Perhaps you could borrow our shetland ram, he will soon see off the dog walkers ;D ;D
:wave:, I am in corfe Castle, we waited for the buttercup to go over before cutting for hay, we got 450 odd small bales, Yaaay!! :sunshine:
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Hi,
The paragraph below is my post from a previous thread. Last year we went to a local agronomist who took 5 samples of soil from our 5 acres. You should do this in the spring when the weeds are growing (docks at the small rosette stage).
We have had the results from the agronomist. PH was 5.8 and for grass needs to be about 6.5 - 7 (out of 14), Potash and Phosphate were ok. He recommended that we cut the paddock really low, box and dispose of the cuttings. Then using granulated lime put on 200kg and 1.5 cwt of fertilizer (20/10/10) per acre, leave for 7 - 10 days then spray with Headland Transfer , a selective weed killer. This is the stage we are at now and although we only sprayed on Friday the buttercups, docks and nettles are black and withering already. Then in 10 days time we are to chain harrow to loosen the top of the soil and spread new grass seed, a horse and pony mix, roll in and leave for a further 3-4 weeks. Hopefully this will get the job done. Will keep you posted with the results in 5 weeks time.
The outcome is that 85-90% of the buttercups have gone. We limed again this year same quantities as last year half the amount of fertilizer and the grass has come back really lush and dark green. We graze 10 falabellas on our land in small paddocks moving them before the grass gets too short, poo pick, chain harrow and top any of the longer grass although its lots of work the results are worth it.
Hope this helps.
V
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Not seen this topic before .
However it's very useful to read it . I don't have paddocks or fields of butter cup just two pocket handkerchiefs of lawn but one lawn is butter cup infested.
It was fed several tons of 6 yr old composted stable muck & straw when the lawn was constructed 10 years ago . The other smaller lawn construct was fed with composted cow muck & straw .. about 3 tons
A horses digestion is different to ruminants, buttercup seeds don't get killed in the horses digestive system , they stay dormant in composing manure as well. Unless you compost doing the Berkley 18 day hot composting method which tends to kill off all seeds if it's done properly .
I think I'll try usingthe dethatcher to clear out a lot of the creepers then feed & weed as indicated in previous posts .