The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: rustyme on September 30, 2008, 02:22:25 pm
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hello,
although I always keep my eye on world situations and things like avian flu , I am not really an "end of the world is nigh" worrier. However, I think that the situation that we are in at the moment is something different to any of us have seen in our lives. So many things can go even more wrong than are doing so , that it may be time to think about what to do if things do fall apart completely. Those with land /smallholdings/farms are in the best situation , but even then only if they are growing vegetables for food and have at least a few animals. I have been setting up all sorts of different things on my little plot, not for the reason that 'the end of the world is nigh', but because I want to do those things and, live a different way of life to what has become the norm .
As it happens the things I am doing and setting up to do, will help me get by if things did go wrong.
I don't mind sounding like a complete nutcase because as I say , I am doing these things anyway and will continue to do them no matter what happens. I do think it is worth everyone at least thinking, about what they would do , and how they would cope if complete economic and social collapse did occur, 'always be prepared' is a good moto to live by . Most are , for little things , like power cuts, most would keep a few boxes of candles and the like, but what would you do if the power was off for weeks or maybe even months ? We are already nearer to that situation than most realize already. How would you cope if there was no fuel for transport ? or if the shops were empty ? Of course things could carry on as they have for years to come yet , but already that is out the window, think about how much fuel costs , petrol , electricity , gas ,and food both for humans and for animals , and it isn't going to get cheaper. This maybe just the start of huge cost increases. Wheat has doubled in price in a year and will no doubt go up even more soon , as the cost of fertilizer has quadrupled over the same period and it costs the farmers £600 plus per day to run some of the combines in fuel alone!!!! Even the cost of the plastic wrap for silage bales has doubled in a short period. Many farmers are going back to silage pits round here , as they can't afford to bale anymore. Anyway, just thought I would see what others are thinking /doing about the current situation that is unraveling on a world basis and soon to hit home very hard on a local one. Sorry if it seems like a doom and gloom subject , but things really are happening out there , and it seems like common sense to prepare the basics at least .
cheers
Russ
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That has been a huge topic around our house for several months. We decided to start our little farm over here so that we knew what was going into our food and to help cut costs at the store, but with everything that has been going on over the last couple months on this side of the pond it is looking more and more of a necessity rather than a different way of life. Me and the wife were just talking about this last night and what we would do if we could no longer afford gas or food or if there just wasn’t any to buy, and what our family would do. We have decided that now is the time to step up production rather than talk about it and slowly implement it. We have also talked about animal power rather than tractors and machines that run on gas or diesel. Almost everyone in America has become very materialistic, and dependant on a disposable society rather than taking the extra time to learn how to support themselves. We don't want to live like that, so we started our little project (just in time it seems). To sound like a nut or a doom and gloomer, I truly do believe that we(America) are headed towards something the likes of which we have never seen. Our economy is collapsing, our money is in a down hill slide and will soon be worthless, our dependence on other countries for... well everything is horrifying, and our Government, don’t even get me started...... :-X We have no leadership at the present and the only options that we have for upcoming Presidents are a sad joke at best. O.K. I'm getting off track. :pig: We are putting together a plan (hopefully not to late) that will rid us of the need to connect to the power grid for electricity, have heat in the winter, food for us and our extended family year round as well as some to barter with, and food for our animals. We think we can accomplish this all within the next 1 1/2 years. That way we will be self sufficient no matter what happens, gloom or sunny skies... Alright now that I have rambled incoherently for a bit and gotten myself worked up again its time to head off to work thanks for taking the time to read my rambles and give me another area to vent my “end of the world” crazy ideas.
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it's funny really , but I started my little plot because I wanted to know what was in the food I was eating . Working on farms over the years , seeing all the chemicals that go on our food and in our animals , I knew something was wrong ,and wanted a different way of life. Well a few years down the road , here I am . I am already at the point where I can't afford many things, the internet is one of the last things I can just about afford...lol. As time has gone by I have found myself doing more things than I ever intended to do , a much more self sufficient way of life . The more things I do , the more I want to do .....,and I realize that it is possible to live a fairly normal life just slightly different , (if that makes sense?), some would say very different though. It is funny how each different thing I do , opens up a complete new arena of skills and each of those in turn opens up even more. The much more simple life that I now lead , as well as being a so much better way of life , it seems it is now also standing me in good stead for the future ( even if the future is the same as the recent past ). I can see a time (quite soon) when fuel , will be beyond the reach of many , where food will be very expensive , and where maybe the way we have come to live will change forever. This has been spoken of for years by some , but now India and China have taken over all of our manufacturing industries , and we have to import just about everything , I think that a complete swing of lifestyles is very close. The lifestyle and food changes that India and China are now having is the complete reverse of ours. It is these changes that we (the western world) cannot compete with or control (as we have in the past). The world population has hit a point that the planet just can't cope with , plus all the politicians ,who are meant to be there to serve us , seem to only be interested in helping themselves to whatever they want . So I shall continue to do what I have been doing for a few years now , but with added urgency . It is funny how even simple things ,like buying veg seeds , can , in normal times , be very easy , but if things go wrong where would the average person get them ? and would they know how to keep and store seeds for the following year? Lots of things to think about !!!! I am sure there will be so many things I haven't even thought of , but will be essential if things go wrong . All I will do is try to be as self sufficient/reliant as possible no matter what happens. One thing I do now though , is make sure I have at least 3 months basic food in store . This I could make last longer if need be , long enough for me to be able to grow more . It all gets used in rota anyway, so nothing wasted . It really would be interesting to hear everyones views on things . Are you doing anything ? Do you care ? whatever, all views are valid and of interest. Got to go and dig the man traps now and setup the trip wires with the pointed stakes attatched, aka Rambo.....hehehe "Don't push me " Really funny thing is , I was making a couple of new arrows for my longbow last night ......thought nothing of it till I was writing earlier......sorry if this is all a bit 'bitty' I keep getting interupted ( the trip wires keep geeting set off) ...
Cheers
Russ
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We are trying to be a self sufficient as possible. The financial problems in the world are affecting us all in one way or another. My hubby said only the other day are we going to stock up on tinned goods for the winter just in case the power does go off as they are threatening. We have a log stove in dining room which serves the hot water and central heating, it's gravity fed. We have open fires also in all the other rooms, we did this as a back up just in case the heating went off. We are off to the markets over the weekend, we want some old fashioned saucepans that can be put into the fires to cook rather than my nice stainless steel ones, these are just in case the power goes off. We are all electric here we have no gas or oil, just logs to keep us warm. We have bought another freezer this week which is now full of my garden produce and will keep us going, but it won't if the power goes off for a while so I will also be looking out for some kilner jars as well to preserve my food. It sounds as though we are battening down the hatches for a nuclear war, keeping food and fuel supplies up. My veggie plot is pretty full and I would say I have enough veg left for about 4-5 months at a stretch. We have 12 chickens and they will be in the pot if push comes to it.
We get our logs from a timber mill and we have to collect and chop, but we still need fuel for the chain saw, but a gallon of fuel will probably keeps us in logs for about 4 months or so.
I know what you are saying about the crisis, but it does make you sit up and think. There is a little doubt at the back of my mind as to whether they are trying to scare monger us into being a bit more self sufficient or the situation could be a lot more worse than they are letting us believe. Either way we still have to think along the lines we are all doing and to look after this fragile planet after all we are only the lease holders we do not own this planet. I am doing my own little bit to save a little bit of this planet for my grandchildren, I know that may sound daft to alot of you but I want them to have a future and if we all do a little bit, all those little bits will soon create a very big bit.
We lead a very simple lift and spend very little if nothing on extras and luxuries. My wages covers the mortgage, well it did before my hours were cut, so now i have another job, which only pays minimum wage, which still makes me 10.00 per week worse off, so I still have to find that for the mortgage. Hubby is a bus driver up here, I dare not say the name, but they have just ballotted to go on strike for a pay rise, they were offered far less than the rate of inflation, so while we have the money, we shall be stocking up on food and fuel as we could have a lot less income in the near future.
I have veg seeds left from this year but I have just gone through the catalogue for next year and made my list which includes differnet veg to what I have grown this year but hopefully will keep us going all year in fresh fruit and veg.
I heard on the news last night that China has stopped buying some food from the west so that item has now come down in price as there is now more of it, I can't remember what it was or if I have got that right, but I bet if the price has gone down , it won't be passed on to us.
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I was watching a program about the iluminaty and althought am not a big one for conspiraty, I was wondering if this 'collapse' was planned or just poorly planned. And i can't really understand why the 'world' has gone mad and didn't have a back up plan.
Being that my Husband always has a back up plan so maybe he has trainned me in the way of management better than the world's finacianal advicers lol
Linz
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Just noticed the date on the original, but maybe it's timely that Spear768 "ressurected" it.
We have been aware of the possibility of collapse for a few years now. It is strange how folks play down their role in preparing for this. The "I may be mad/crazy" bit. I know a lot of you beleive in what you are doing, especially you Russ, and we should not belittle it. We may be pioneers, or not, but it's what we want to do. If, when I finally fall off my perch, the world has continued as "normal" I won't feel as though I've wasted a bit of my life doing what we do.
We have an independant fuel and heating source, food in the freezer and lots of salt if the power gives out.
Veg planted and stock on a scale we can manage. No F1 seeds so we can harvest our own seed for use next year, and a small stock pile for emergency use.
What we will struggle with is growing enough animal feed, and will probably have to go back to only over wintering what we can feed as they did in the old days.
Apart from that we are hopeful. This does not have to be a disaster, it can be an opportunity and an adventure. In fact I suspect that an attitude of optimism will be what will makes the difference.
:D
Dave
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there are so many levels of preparedness , as many as there are people almost. I talk about "what if ? " or even " if and when ? ", but apart from the time I talk about it on here or to friends etc, it doesn't occupy very much of my time at all really . I am just busy doing my thing , as they say !!. My thing , just happens to be making things for myself and setting everything up that I can , to feed myself and rear my own stock etc . Most of this desire to do this came about from a desire to live a different way , I knew the norm just wasn't for me !!!! I know that over the years there have been all sorts of different scares , end of the world scenarios etc , but they didn't really occupy too much of my time or thoughts, but lately I , like many others could see that something was wrong !!!! Something was different . Something was changing . It wasn't any one thing , just a general " what the F*** is going on here ?". The more I looked into it , the more I didn't like what I saw. I saw , very quickly , that the things I was doing and others I wanted to do , were the very things I knew would be needed if it really did all collapse. This is mainly because they are all things from a different time , the way they used to be done , what one man can do by himself to keep himself. Just about everything that is done today , our whole way of life , is dependant on so many things that are completely , utterly , totally out of our control . I wanted that control back . I also wanted a gentler, slower ,more in touch with nature , way of life, (although that doesn't mean easier or less hard work !!). To use less resources , to try and leave my little bit of the world better than I found it . Sadly our society , our way of life , makes this hard to do without money . That is the thing that makes what I do take so long to achieve . I am now very near to doing that though , and as I get older I get nearer to saying "stuff this , I am off " and go off to my 6 acres of paradise . The only thing that stops me doing it right now is , there are some things about the modern way of life I want to keep ...lol. It is they , that hold me back . So yes Dave, like you , I do what I do, because I want too. Whatever happens in the near future , things are going to change drastically from what we have become used to . It cannot remain as is . If it really hit the fan and society collapsed ??? then I have said to my close family that they are welcome to join me to get away from it . This most will be doing , if they can ?. It will make it very tight on such a small plot but it can be done . Plus there would be more hands to do the work . That is in a future that may never happen though . I hope for their sakes it doesn't . I however , think it will, and in the current way the world is , it may be sooner than later .
I am sorry for waffling on , I find it hard to explain in few words .
cheers
Russ
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..........and what I'll miss the most is communication with like minded souls like yourself Russ.
Dave
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yep ... that is one of the things on my list I like ..... ;D Hearing about what others are doing and how they are doing it , helps make you realize how much more you need to know and do . It also helps me know that I am not the only nut here... ::) ::) ;D
Cheers
Russ
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It's a time to look at what we have and plan how we make the change, when the money stops. I moved from the manic place called London to what I thought was the calm self sufficient place called Ireland. I jumped off the wheel that made me feel my life was quite worthless. BUT I have come to a country that is more money orientated than I could have imagined. This really is a world wide problem and we need good people to stop everything and rethink the future. Its not the likes of you and I, but the people in the public eye that can do this , but again they get in the public eye usually because they are completely career focused and money mad. So what is the solution. My personal one is - get ready for not having a job at some stage and gradually work on living on what you already have. Look at what may be needed in the future and work on that. Yep - not really a solution, but what else is there. I think we can all bounce back as long as we don't get pulled down with the rest.
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the people in charge , who are all money orientated ,just want more and more and more. They are like a runaway train going downhill . They only see one solution to all our troubles, (that they have created !!!) we need more money !!! Even if they were to change tack , it would only be to make money out of a different way of life, to sustain their current greed . I really do think that it is possible , that there is going to be some sort of social collapse , brought about by any number of reasons . Whatever the initial cause though ,the outcome will be much the same . I would not want to be in a big town or city when it does happen . The average person is so reliant on everything being handed to them on a plate , that they will not be capable of coping. There will always be the odd strong one who would cope , and they would drag through with them a few less capable ones with them . But on the whole there will be many that just sit there and wait for something that isn't going to come . By the time they realize it isn't coming , it will be too late. There is nothing I can do for them , they are in the mind set that I and people like me , are head cases , we have lost the plot etc etc. Well maybe they are right ? All I know is I am doing what I want to do , living a way of life I like and one I can sustain . I like to think that I would be strong enough to cope with whatever is coming ( good or bad) . In fact I know I am !! The only thing that would change that is if things were to change because of something like a pandemic ? Would I catch it ? would I survive it ? I don't have the answers . I do have the mental and physical strength to fight to my last breath , for my way of life and if need be , for my survival. Will I have to do so ? I think the possibility of needing to , is getting greater day by day , not because of this swine flu that is about now in particular , but things like it, and the general knife edge way we exist in this present time. Something has to give ....and I think something is about too !!! Like everyone else though .... I just don't know what IT is !!!
cheers
Russ
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Having read all your messages and agreeing with the concerns and possible answers my own thoughts are that IF and WHEN these changes happen there will be alot of unprepared people in the world, alot of people who in desperation or through greed will want what you, (and hopefully me one day) have, those of you who live in isolated areas may not be frequent targets but anyone living in more built up areas could possibly encounter a far higher level of crime, and lets face it not everyone is fortunate enough to have land to grow enough to support themselves even if they had good intentions. Being in a situation where the majority of people want what i have is not an area im familiar with, and if the tides do turn i feel concerned that your and my peaceful self suffficeint dreams could be very different. The isle of Lewis looks more and more appealing every day !!!!!
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yes you are right dreamer ( not you are a right dreamer !!! ;D ;D ;D) , but I am lucky in that I am a couple of miles from the nearest village , and 5 miles from the nearest town . My little plot is well hidden , although not perfectly so . I do realize that in the event of some complete utter collapse, there will be people on the look out for anything they can take . Thats where the survival bit kicks in . I would fight to protect what is mine ,if ? anybody tried to take it . Would I kill ? YES, if need be . But I would also share and help anyone, if I possibly could . Would I go without ? , for family yes ... anybody else no. Although the Isle of Lewis /Harris is appealing for those reasons , it has too many drawbacks for my liking . I would much rather take my chances where I am . All down to choices really , and although I live in Wales (very wet to say the least ) cold and wet brings me to an absolute stop . Far too many old broken bones to cope with the weather that far north. I only just manage where I am ::). If there were such a total collapse though , I don't forsee hoards of people roaming the land , many small groups maybe . Large groups just wouldn't survive for long , to much food needed, to fuel roaming in an endless search for it .
cheers
Russ
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What a really interesting thread and really echos what's been going on in my head for at least the past year or so. What really gets me is peoples total ambivalence and that there's gonna be some eleventh hour miracle solution to all our ills without having to change our habits. I'm nowhere near where I would like to be bar growing some stuff in containers and bags but I'm actively seeking a little place so I can at least do something to secure my children's future. I do suffer from the odd 'panic attack' whenever I think of what I want to do having absolutely no experience at all, by the same token I worry what could happen if we don't.
These are certainly very interesting times and I just hope it doesn't resort back to the greed and excess of the past.
Auds x
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Auds,
Every little bit you do is a help, and one thing that will be invaluable is knowledge. Keep reading and posting on here. Even without experience, some knowledge of what to do will go a long way.
Dreamer,
You and other half will have to get yourselves up here to check it out!
Dave
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Crofter
Its in our plans to make a trip to Lewis, was looking again this morning before i came on here. there is a plot of land for sale with a ruin on it, no services and it says its remote not sure if we could go that far but my OH is very good with practical things and a brain box as far as energy and engineering is concerned, plus we have very little money to spend so thats the biggest influence. By the way tried the chocolate cake recipe last night its brill and so easy.
Regarding the economic collapse my OH says that he is in no doubt that should resources dry up the big fuel companies have got it sorted already and will bring out their alternatives to enable them to keep their powerful positions.
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Hi Dreamer
Beware of buying a croft. A tenancy is better as grants are automatic and you can pass the tenancy on to a blood relative without needing approval. Our rent for 4.5 acres is 22 a year! There is still, I believe, a 27,000 grant to build a house on a registered croft if one does not exist on it presently. Where abouts are they calling "remote"?
Dave
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Sent you a messagee Crofter forgot where i was on here, just to say where the place was but on second thoughts its not got much land, would be interested in learning more about croft rental and leases will have a look about, any pointers appreciated.