The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Other => Rabbits => Topic started by: roddycm on August 08, 2013, 07:35:23 pm
-
Hello,
I wanted to start with a few rabbits for meat and was wondering what system do you all use? I have been on google and most people suggest wire cages raised up off of the floor. Is this really the best way? It seems like quite a cruel life for the poor bunnies. Had a few pet rabbits before but kept them in hutches, never had meat rabbits before so any advice would be great!
I hear the best breeds are NZ whites or Californians... Have you guys found this to be the case?
Thanks
Roddy
-
If you're only going to raise a few to eat for yourself, then a decent hutches will be fine. :bunny:
-
we started keeping rabbits for meat at the beginning of this year, we chose rex rabbits as I would like to use the furs as well as the meat.
We also didnt really want to use the 'breeding block' kind of system as part of the project was also to teach our children about caring for animals properly and discovering more about where food comes from.
At the moment we have our buck in a single story hutch at night and he goes into an outdoor run on grass during the day, it has shelter incase it rains and the floor of the run is wired so he cant dig but the grass grows through.
My doe is in a big two story hutch which has enough room for her litter aswell. I also have another hutch which is massive and has access to a large run underneath which I move our baby rabbits into after weaning. This large run area also doubles up as my quail chick growers pen!
We had a few false starts at the start of the venture, it was our does first litter and for different reasons we lost our first two litters.
One thing you need to think about is that rabbits can have very large litters so you will need enough room for them. Also, males reach maturity as early as 4 months (i think) so they would need to be kept away from their mother/sisters if you were planning to grow them on longer than that. Also you need to decide on a frequency for breeding, gestation is 32 days so you need to think about planning litters.
We litter trained our breeding rabbits and it makes maintenance much easier. We clean out their litter trays every two days. Litter training means that you will need to clean the hutches out much less often. We use wood shavings for the hutches and megazorb (a wood pulp used for horse bedding) in the litter trays.
Ebay has been a good source of second hand hutches. Just make sure you measure your car, some are pretty big!
Also you might want to think about growing some food for them to keep costs down. If you have kids, send them out picking cow parsley! My rabbits will even eat nettles once they've been dried. Stuff like strawberry plants are so easy to propagate and rabbits love them.
I hope this helps! :bunny: :bunny:
-
Watching this thread - we're going to try rabbits next year, I'm looking o go on a course at Trealy Farm
www.meatcourse.co.uk/rabbit (http://www.meatcourse.co.uk/rabbit) in the spring.
-
Brilliant advice! Thank you so much :) I am much happier with the hutch and run idea! I will have to google how to litter train rabbits haha I didn't know this was possible but it sounds like a great idea :)
-
My rabbits were are a couple of years old already when i got them so it was a bit harder to train them, i basically had to wait until they had picked a favourite spot and put the litter tray there. It's meant to be much easier to train younger rabbits.
Also, about nest boxes, many people recommend placing a nest box in the hutch close to the time when your doe is due to kindle (give birth) so that the litter is born in the box but I don't do this. Does will naturally make a nest themselves so I try not to interfere and haven't had any problems so far but it's up to you. There are load of guides online about litter training rabbits and making nest boxes.
I would recommend investing in a waterproof/insulation cover for outdoor hutches, they can be expensive but you could improvise with a bit of carpet over the hutch and a waterproof tarp during the winter especially.
In the summer flies can be a real problem for domestic rabbits, this year i used red top fly traps in the garden and they have been amazing. I haven't had any trouble and have hardly seen a single fly in the hutches.
Just shout if there's anything else you can think of you might need to know. :thumbsup:
-
We have a pet, house rabbit. I have heard people say that rabbits don't need much space as they don't move around a lot. They need loads of exercise in order to have a good quality of life and I find the tier cage system quite shocking. Think of battery cages for hens.
Our rabbit comes when he is called and purrs when petted. He knows when we are making toast and comes and begs for it .... quite intelligent. Lots of behaviours that you wouldn't know rabbits were capable of if kept out in hutches.
Easy to house train if bought as young rabbits. Ours will run around the house but always return to his cage and the litter tray it contains when he needs the loo. They are very clean if given the chance.
Think there are past posts on here about rearing for meat. Colliewoman (not on here at the moment) is a good source of rabbit information. You maybe able to find posts by her.
-
clarebelle set up sounds great and simular to ours for the buck. Mum moves into an old woden dresser to have her young and we cut a small hole on one of the doors then made a run around this ( wire bottom too).
KEY point. rabbits eat wood !! Infact mum number 2 ate thru the wire door frame and it fell off its hinge allowing her to escape. She had a fight with a drake and drowned in the bath. I had to kill her 9 few days old babies.
All the rabbit cages here are made of cast concrete with a wire grill. They can be stacked on top of each other and the base tilts backwards to aid cleaning.
NOTE : whatever you put them in rember that you will have to clean out their cage and run - you don't want to be crawling around or digging up wet soiled straw with a bad back do you? :-J They will toilet in the same area of the above regardless if you move their run around the lawn or not. Their toilet will kill the grass so maybe invest in a tray once you establish where they will toilet.
Note 2: At some stage you will have to remove the rabbits from their cage or run to kill them. Consider how you will get one out at a time without other escaping and ease of access.
Note 3 Remove Mum from her kittens before they get to 10 weeks and seperate the sexes unless you plan to kill them at 10-12 weeks.
note 4 : Wild rabbits may visit your stock so protect your veg plot with an electric fence.
-
Mine have a big hutch each all arranged so they can see the other rabbits. It's nice and social for them that way but the bucks are placed so that they can't see each other very well as they get a bit frustrated seeing the other at mating time. The shed they live in has windows and big double doors which I open up every day to get lots of air and light in.
I don't like wire cages either but many a day I have thought how much easier and quicker the cleaning would be if all I had to do was empty a tray. I clean them every day, which may sound a lot but in reality it mostly consists of emptying corner loos, shaking dry pellets out of their hay bedding and scooping them into a tub. Because mine all live in a big shed it would get pretty smelly in there if I didn't do this.
Rabbits are naturally clean and if you let them pick their own toilet spot it is a simple matter to just introduce a toilet. It's worth cleaning the corner loos with a soak in vinegar every now and then as it dissolves the smelly, calcified urine salts that build up in the loos.
Here are a few pros and cons as I see it;
wire cages are easier to keep clean.
Better air circulation in large rabbitrys with wire cages
solid floors enable the rabbits to scrabble (digging behaviour) which helps wear down their nails
permanent nest boxes are a nice bolt hole and more burrow-like
solid floors and nest boxes let the doe chose her own nest site
Kits that crawl out of the nest can fall through wire cages.
We are considering building a rabbit tractor but there are issues around contact with wild rabbits to overcome first. Whatever you end up doing remember that they need plenty of ventilation as rabbits (reputedly) have problems with respiratory diseases. I've never had a problem so far, touch wood, but it's worth bearing in mind.
Ooo, I wrote a book there, lol, sorry it was a bit longwinded.
-
Do be careful buying second hand hutches, really wash and clean them out, my OH lost all his breeding rabbits to a bug which ripped through them like a wildfire, this only occurred after he had used some second hand hutches given to him. Previous to this he had bred a closed colony of rabbits for years with no problems.
-
How old are the young rabbits when they are weaned and how long between weaning and a reasonable slaughter weight?
-
I believe that they wean at about 4 weeks but we keep Mum with the kittens as she still mothers them and they will take her milk. At 10 weeks they can mate so mum is removed at about 9 weeks and it is best to seperate male and females. 12 weeks and they are a good size to take for the kitchen.
Happy to hear others thoughts but this works for us.
Oh - did I say that our last litter escaped their run after eating through the wooden door support. I caught 11 that remained in the duck enclosure that the rabbit run was in. One rabbit did escape and ran with the wild rabbits for a week or so but then made the mistake of setting up home in the barn amongst the chickens.
-
There is a nice pattern to the weaning - as usual nature has it nicely sorted. Wild rabbits mate right after kindling or at least within a couple of days. The growing kits just born are weaned and eating solid food by 3 weeks and the kits growing inside the doe don't really make much demand on the doe's resources until the final week of pregnancy. In domesticated breeds the kits will still try to steal a drink from mum but she doesn't always put up with it.
Have a look at this cutie, Daisy is a good mum and is standing for him Questing for grub. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZz7_ff-b6E#)
Pregnancy varies slightly between breeds, in the case of NZWs it is 31 days but bigger breeds can be even longer. Many smaller breeds are ready to mate within 3 to 4 months but the NZW should be left until they have attained their adult body weight. They can conceive at around six months but I never managed it earlier than 7 mths. The bucks still need to be separated if you are going to keep them longer than 12 to 14 weeks as the dominant ones will give the subordinate bucks a really hard time trying to mount them. It's easy to spot when you need to split them up as the racing around the hutch makes quite a racket, you'd have to be deaf to not notice, lol. Maiden does will usually be quite happy living together however.
They should be ready for the pot by 12 weeks but if you keep them a couple of weeks longer you'll catch a growth spurt that will put a bit more muscle on them, it's worth doing. The meat to bone ratio on the NZW is better than supermarket chicken by the way, as they are smaller boned than other large breeds. They are sometimes crossed with other large breeds to get a better carcase.
-
Very interesting. I gather ( and stand corrected) that the mother can delay pregnancy or even reabsorb the very young (5-6 days) if conditions are not right.
Our old neighbours were excited that our last litter were fathered by a wild rabbit. The right to be pleased with their gift as the meat was better than our usual.
-
My standard Rex doe always has a 32 day gestation. The fur was a big reason for going for that breed but I think when we move house next year I may get a NZW doe and put her to our rex buck. It will be interesting to see what the carcass is like.
I'm currently weaning my first bunnies from mum, yesterday I put them in another hutch all day and back in with mum during the night, I am going to do this for another two days I think.
Mak, do you rest your does through winter or keep breeding?
Also, thanks Julie for the vinegar tip, might have to try that! :bunny:
-
Thanks for starting this post - really interesting! would like to do meat rabbits myself one day. Good luck!
-
i know rabbits will eat the grass/hay and veggies but are there anything else that they should be fed such as concentrates or rabbit feed?
-
I once read that you could make a hole and put mesh in their toilet corner, tray underneath - any ideas on that?
-
Yes its been really helpfull! I am making my outdoor runs at the moment! I like the idea of feeding as much grass as possible and supplementing with feed!
-
You'll soon get to know how much dry food they will eat but the bags of feed ought to have a guideline on them. A good basic pellet supplemented with 70% grass or hay and 30% edible weeds is a great diet and will keep them really healthy. I used to know the ratio's and even marked up an old jug with amounts for pregnant does, maintenance ration, etc, but now I just go by what they tend to eat. If there is a lot of food left every day I just give them a smaller dish. Growing kits and nursing does need ad-lib feed and you'll find the bucks are smaller eaters - or maybe yours will make a liar of me, lol.
This is a really useful link
http://www.fao.org/docrep/t1690E/t1690e03.htm#TopOfPage (http://www.fao.org/docrep/t1690E/t1690e03.htm#TopOfPage)
-
I feed mine a rabbit breeders pellet which isn't very expensive at all. Also the quantities are pretty small, for example, its 50g portion for a buck or doe (this is increased for the doe during pregnancy/lactation), which, when measured, isn't very much. They also get hay/veggies/grass adlib
http://www.farmandpetplace.co.uk/products/pet/small-animal/food-and-treats/rabbit/allen-rabbit-breeder-grower-20kg.html (http://www.farmandpetplace.co.uk/products/pet/small-animal/food-and-treats/rabbit/allen-rabbit-breeder-grower-20kg.html)
-
brilliant thank you just got the hutches and runs to build now :)
-
Feed - they pretty much eat anything you can grow in the garden except that they are not keen on the onion family.
To my surprise I was told that they love the long leafy shoots thrown off by the grape vine. At the moment I am chucking them my spent haricot bean plants ( they eat the lot) , carrots and of course dandilions.
We spare them lettuce and just give them the odd cabbage leaf . They like an apple and they are getting the odd plum too.
-
My rabbits completely changed my relationship with weeds, I can identify most of them now and see them as useful assets. Avoid anything toxic such as docks, the odd leaf won't hurt but they are loaded with oxalic acid which is a cumulative poison so don't feed them in quantity. Ours love a bit of willow to chew at and leaves from the hazel trees. Strawberry leaves go down well, vetch, shepherds purse, dandelion, chickweed, cleavers, sow thistles, raspberry leaves, lime leaves, alder, daisies, plantain, sorrel, any culinary herbs especially mint, there are so many things they will enjoy. If you crush nettle leaves wearing gloves they'll enjoy those too.
It's a bit like your own diet, a little of everything and not too much of anything - except for grass, they need a lot of grass/hay.
One last useful thing; couch grass is a natural antibiotic and if your rabbit isn't feeling well it's a good thing to offer.
-
just to echoe others - gather as much and a variety of green stuff saving items highlighted above. It is harder work but better than those pellet things and cheaper too. Meat raised this way is excellent. ( rabbit and dried mushroom pasta in a wine and tomatoe sauce tonight !! Oh - livers too).
-
Later in the year, avoid greens that have been frosted.
-
Later in the year, avoid greens that have been frosted.
Good to learn new things thanks Bodger. Are they ok if they have been frosted and then recover as so many plants do if they are still in the ground with their roots on, or is there something that happens to them as a result of the frosting?
They do say to remove anything that has wilted too, I think that has something to do with fermentation. It maybe affects the gut flora balance, anyone know?
-
I have never had a problem with green / roots that have been frozen , i have always been told it's only the ones with the frost on them , i regularly feed winter greens , cabbage, kale,brussell sprouts,, swedes,+swede leaves right through untill the spring greens are ready , and i've been feeding bunnys for ???? over 55 years ( wow that makes me feel old :innocent: )
-
I once read that you could make a hole and put mesh in their toilet corner, tray underneath - any ideas on that?
Yup ,
Our first domestic pet wabbit was an old English one weighed in at over 7 pounds when fully grown .
His cage was a four foot by four foot by four foot 1 '2 thick walled pine packing case that had been well creosoted several months before we got him.
I made the bottom 2 inches a suspended floor using 1/4 " thick round stainless steel rods set 1/3 inch apart over about one foot of the day area . The whole underneath was a slide in /out tray with a pee & pellet gully sticking outside of the cage. it fitted loosely into the under croft area and had deflection batons to guide any droppings and pee onto the tray .
The rest of his cage was a solid floor and covered in a good two inches of barley straw , they eat this like a cow chews cud and seem to enjoy it better than wheat or oat straw .
I divided the cage so that he had 14 inches sleep area on even more barley straw ,
he rarely peed in or pooped in his bed area .
It didn't take him long to use the grid floor area for his toilet needs .
The bed area was a secondary door area on the inside of the cage and there was a 9 inch round hole in the hinged dividing wall between the bed and the day area so it gave a two inch lip to keep his bedding in . There was also a two inch lip by the SS rods , again to try and keep the bedding off the rods.
His feeder and water were removable stainless steel bowls fastened a few inches up from the floor .
It was a simple case that every other day I could slide out the soiled pee tray and hose it off into a 5 gallon bucket . then put the tray insert back in the hutch without disturbing the rabbit.
There was a day pen exit made from a sliding pop hole plate of aluminium that was lockable in place , when He got fed in the mornings he had the pop hole opened up to give him as much room as possible .
Every Saturday or Sunday he was put in his Mordant day pen the pop hole closed and the whole cage was cleaned then scrubbed in a weak Dettol solution and sprayed in a bit of clean solution once things had been rinsed off.
The cage was then refilled with barley straw & Baylin was allowed access if & when he wanted.
In sub zero temps below minus 5 oC we simply did a scrape out rather than a full wash out . Our winters over there were from mid Nov to mid March with many a day well below 5 oC , so come spring everything got a super duper de gunge and disinfecting.
Re the covering of the cage
Myxi RHD and various other diseases are spread by fly /gnat /mozzie strikes on the animals bum , genitals or eye and ears area.
Keep things clean and make sure the dung heap or pee drain site are well away from the hutch , Cover the hutch before dusk arrives to keep them little beggars away.
Old Axminster carpet is brill as the carpet will fold easily one way and drop down close to the cage .
In any case use a wooden "T " ( top bar to the top ) to hold the carpet to the cage somewhere around the bottom four inches & secure the top end by using several brick , don't nail it on as it is easily moved when needed if it rots or gets damages etc. plus the brick can be used to hold it back when you lift it up each morning.
Rabbits will eat anything when hungry , frozen nor not so whatever grow in your garden is usually OK save for Rhubarb leaves , tomato & potato tops or banana skins which are poisonous .
Oven dried potato & other veg & fruit peelings such as apple or pear peelings are a good stand by when greenery is hard to get because of deep snow . Mum use to put them in the oven on newspaper after she'd finished using the oven , I took them out the oven in the morning and put them in one of three big old screw top sweet jars till they were needed .