The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Justin on July 11, 2015, 08:31:01 pm
-
We'll be getting chickens in the next few weeks, but first we have to prepare a suitable home.
We have a section of our land, an old orchard space where the trees hadn't taken and so it's been cleared out. We're going to turn it into a large fenced chicken run. The idea being that within it we can fence off sections if needed, probably quarters at a time, in which we put the hens and move the house as needed to whichever section is in use. This will hopefully give the ground time to recover. The chickens will also free range in the garden and the next field under our supervision but the run will, hopefully, be as proof against predators as I can make it. We're starting with 4-5 hens but are likely to increase that in the future once we've more experience so figured I'd do the building stuff just once.
You can see the space here, the run will cover most of the space, but not quite all the way to the far hedge with the gate, 13m x 17m. The view in this photo is looking directly west so there'll be shade for a good chunk of the day. The hen house will go in the top left corner with the pop hole facing towards the camera as the prevailing wind is south westerly and the hedge will provide some shelter against it.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h139/Mr_magicfingers/Chickens/IMG_6565_zpsivsflk2f.jpg)
The hen house will be on legs with room to shelter underneath, I'll also put in a couple of posts and a roof for additional shade, along with some pieces of tree trunk etc for perches.
For the run itself, the plan is to bang in 9' fence posts to a depth of 3' every 3 meters, giving a 6' high post out of the ground. The corner posts might be concreted in to give a strong structure to attach and tension wire to, near the ground and at the top.
Then dig a foot deep trench and 4' wide weld mesh ½" x 1" will be fixed to the posts with the bottom foot underground and angled outwards. Another 4' wide weld mesh, 1" x 1", will go above that, overlapped 6" and with a wire woven through the join. the mesh will be joined to the top and bottom tension wires with hog rings every foot or so and will hopefully prevent any sagging.
On the outside of the mesh I'll run some standoff insulators attached to the posts and run a couple of strands of electric fence wire at fox-nose height and another a bit higher to hopefully make the foxes walk away from attempting to climb the fence.
I'm hoping this will give me a 6' high run secure against most predator attacks. We're planning on being in the property for 20 years so I'm prepared to spend a bit extra now on good materials so that it will last a long time.
Any additional things I've missed thinking of? The weak points are likely to be the area under the gates on either side, not sure how best to deal with that?
-
Just looking for mesh suppliers and Hills of Devon are out of stock of some sized. Wondering if 1" x 1" at the base and 2" x 2" at the top would be ok or if the holes are too large.
-
Hi Justin
Excellent plans to keep the fox out but have you priced up some electric fencing? You seem to have planned a lot of work there with a lot of expense for just a few birds. Why not buy an electric fence kit for around £300+ which you can then move around to manage the land giving the birds fresh grass every few weeks with ease & much much cheaper. As (or if ) you expand your flock you can either add additional portable electric fencing or revert to a more permanent plan which would justify a large flock.
Im currently looking for an acreage to expand my flock and that's what ill be doing.
Just a suggestion, hope it helps.
Mark
-
Hi Mark,
thanks for the advice. We already have an electric fence kit, with poultry/sheep netting, but it occasionally gets used for other things. We have a local farmer with a post banger rig on his tractor who can put in the posts for us and there's some other digging work being done on the farm so we have an excavator on site which means digging and infilling the trench wouldn't take long. Seemed to make sense to do it while the big tools were available. Mesh for the run would be £200-£250 plus the cost of the poles. Galvanised wire isn't unreasonably priced and fixings are relatively cheap.
We figured that a solid secure run capable of lasting 20 years was a good investment and I figured a fox could easily clear a 4' electric fence, which is about what the usual electric nettings are.
We're looking at small-time smallholding for 20 years, the chickens will always be a part of that and the flock is bound to grow. There'll get access to other areas of the fields but a secure place at night, particularly if/when we have to go away for occasional days seemed sensible.
-
I would add some netting to the top too. I get magpies and pheasants and crows who take the food for my chickens otherwise! In fact, at the moment I have two magpies who dive bomb the 2inch netting and get through! Cheeky beggars!
-
Netting will also provide protection from flying predators e.g. Buzzards. I have had hens killed by buzzards so now have bamboo poles holding up strings in a matrix across our large hen run. It seems to be effective, but isn't stopping the squirrel with a taste for the hens corn!
-
Ah, now attacks from above I hadn't considered, thanks for that. I think the run is too big to realistically net over, that would involve taller fencing and a fair number of additional posts to support a roof net that big. Perhaps some lines of monofilament strung from post to post might work. Probably still need to have taller posts though or I'm likely to garrotte myself when going in to feed and clean out.
-
I wonder if one of those fake owls on one of the fence posts would work to keep prey birds away?
-
I will try to post photos of my bamboo pole / string arrangement, if I can work out how to make the file size small enough to post! Otherwise, if you send me a PM with your email address, I can send you some photos directly.
-
Impressive plans, better than what I have! If you wanted to save your selves a bit of work, i have a small suggestion:
pheasant release pens have the wire at the base just laid on the surface, and obviously they bury themselves a bit over time so you don't see the wire. Saves digging a trench around the pen and just as good (so I am told).
On s slightly different note, next time I build a pen I intend to adapt a bit of it to have a crow ladder trap roof somewhere (Google it). If you get into any breeding and have chicks, and sometimes just for catching birds, it's handy to have a smaller pen within a large pen. Might not take too much more effort to put another post in in one corner and make a 3x3m or so pen with little gate you can get through and ladder trap roof..? My thought is that I'll bait with eggs and feed the hens in there to get crows used to coming, then one day shut the gate with couple hens inside and fit ladder in place and hopefully all the troublesome crows can be killed in one day. No protection from Hawks or buzzards, but I've only had sparrow Hawks after chicks twice so I'm not too bothered about them.
-
I have Heras fencing as my chicken run, so I guess about 6or 7 foot high and my netting holds up pretty well and doesn't sag but inside the main rectangle I have got a support panel midway that comes halfway across the rectangle (if that makes sense?) This also helps when you are moving the chickens around.
-
What are your local predator birds? Here it's buzzards, which will take growers. Siting the house next to a hedge is giving cover for predators and rats. Having a small roofed run area outside the house and within the large run will give shelter in very bad weather and somewhere to contain them if you need to catch one in a hurry, especially if you train them by scattering a little corn each day. It will also keep litter clean for longer as they won't be tramping mud into the house. You could just make it a roof on legs, like a mini pole barn, and screw a sheet of ply into the windward side over the Winter. We use game netting over some runs but beware of it getting weighed down by heavy snow overnight.
-
Steph Hen, thank you very much indeed for the suggestion of the ladder trap. I'd not heard of that before but crows are very common in our fields. The idea of making a corner pen sounds ideal. I could make a weather protecting roof for it that could be changed out for a ladder trap roof when needed. Also useful for separating off birds if needed. Have now added that to the plans.
Marches Farmer, we have a couple of buzzards that occasional fly over, I'll keep that in mind if we get younger birds. Plan, to start with, is just a few point of lay birds but I'm sure that somewhere down the line there'll be more. Knowing my girlfriend, chicks will happen eventually :innocent:
-
I'd echo what the others have said about this being a lot of work for just a few hens, but if you're wanting to future proof it and expand your flock in the future, go for it!!
There's no need to dig a deep trench to bury the netting, since as Steph Hen says, it's just as good to lay it out along the ground in an L-shape, or if you prefer lift the turf and place the netting below that. However, if you've got the digger and don't mind the effort, it will certainly work.
We're going to turn it into a large fenced chicken run. The idea being that within it we can fence off sections if needed, probably quarters at a time, in which we put the hens and move the house as needed to whichever section is in use.
I reckon you're going to run into problems with this TBH. We recently moved our hen house all of six feet to the left, and come dusk all the hens just clustered around where the door USED to be and looked confused!!
To save you the effort of moving the house, and confusing the birds, I wonder if you could set it up permanently in the middle of the four quarters, on an area of type 1 or similar that won't get muddy. You could then have pop holes or gates from this central area out into the other four quarters, and rotate the ground they're allowed out onto. It wouldn't be hard to do, and it would save you from having to move the house ever.
What does everybody else think?
-
Hmmm, more thinking. Perhaps just having the wire coming out on the top is all that's needed. I'd been going on what I read about foxes tunnelling under but certainly it would save time not digging the trench if that will work.
Interesting idea putting the house in the middle. Again, I'd been reading that they want shade and shelter, but I'm open to suggestions, hence all the questions on here.
-
I would agree with putting the house in the middle. If you are building it yourself, should be easy enough to have a pop hole on each side. Like the ideas though, I'm going to build permanent pens after struggling with electric netting for 3 years. In the winter it gets blown over and in the summer the grass shorts it out. I've also found that they can just fly out if they want which means lots of wing clipping etc.
I think netting is good for a system where you are moving the hens a lot, like once a week or more. Otherwise it's a pain to keep working and if you leave it in place for a month the grass grabs the bottom and it's a pig to pull up anyway.
In terms of shelter, I would either build some simple permanent ones or movable ones. I use 2 pallets with the tops wired together and some light ply screwed on to make a quick and secure shelter.
-
Again, I'd been reading that they want shade and shelter, but I'm open to suggestions, hence all the questions on here.
Yes they do definitely. Ours hide under hedges and bushes when the weather turns nasty. When it turns horrific they all cower under the Landrover! So, since you have the space, planting a few shrubs in the runs is a good idea.
If you put the house up on legs (a good idea to prevent rats anyway), the ground underneath it will stay dry and you could put sand /earth under to make it a dust-bathing area, as well as giving shelter for them in bad weather. You'll also find that they prefer cold dry winter weather to summer heat.
-
Justin, I love your plans. You are quite right to"Think Big" as you will definitely end up with a lot more than 5 hens! This is the voice of recent experience speaking!
Would you now please talk to my husband and persuade him of the sense of your idea? :innocent:
I like the idea of one house with multiple pop holes but then you would have to have multiple automatic doors and that's very expensive. Im assuming you will have an auto door, which you may not. I wouldn't be without ours. Your field looks to be some way from your house: in that case an auto door when its a miserable November Sunday morning and you are a bit hung over and fancy just one tiny lie-in will be worth its weight in ....eggs! :eyelashes:
-
Auto door and multiple pop-holes is easy enough if you get the right type of opener. However, what I was suggesting is having a hardstanding area around the house that the hens have access to all the time, then another gate or pop hole from there into each of the four areas. Those would only have to be altered every couple of weeks when you want to rotate which of the four quarters the birds have access to :thumbsup: .
-
If you go for the four run areas idea it might be worth considering putting down horizontal wire panels and using game panels or cheap dog cage panels to move around. Planning is good but sometimes when something's been in place for a few months you think up a way to do things better but if you go for the final solution to start with you're stuck with it.
-
All great ideas, thank you so much. We've ordered a plastic chicken house on legs from green frog designs. More expensive than originally planned but, if their 20 year lifespan is realistic, it's a good investment. It will be easy for my girlfriend to take apart and move/clean on the occasions I'm away with work and is quick and easy to jet wash to get rid of any red mite.
If we put it in the middle of the run, it would only have to be turned 90 degrees each time we move the internal run fencing, which should hopefully be ok with the birds.
We've ordered the door opener with it.
It's not far from the house to the orchard. The hedge on the right of the picture is our kitchen garden, so 30 seconds walk from the back door to the run, though the ability to have the door open on those dark rainy mornings is appealing.
For additional shelter, we'll be planting some new orchard trees come the winter, with protection around them, so they should grow and hopefully live in harmony with the chickens.
Kimbo, I can only suggest reminding your husband that you'll get your way eventually, I'm just a little more realistic about this perhaps ;) Also, I always loved the chickens that my mum kept so I'm quite happy for there to be more.
Next year they'll be a couple of wieners to fatten up for the autumn and after that, mostly likely a few sheep. Our neighbour raises sheep and uses a couple of our fields for pasture so he's going to help teach us how to look after them so we'll have experience on hand when we have a few of our own.
-
There will be more hens. There just will. I resisted getting our initial 3 but she pushed and pushed. Now I've got 150 or so. Ahem.
The thing is with any area that is going to get a lot of use is that it either has to be completely dry or it has to be capable of holding a deep litter (straw / shavings / hay etc.) or it will quickly turn into the Somme.
A dust bathing area is essential but you will find that if you build a good permanent shelter, they will quickly make this the bath area. Once they have done that, keep the rain out and you can choose to add things like DE or clean wood ash to help them with any mite issues.
Plastic housing is great. Contrary to popular opinion, it won't prevent mite totally. We got them in our eglu in any gaps or joins but as you say, you can pull it apart and get right at them. So it's great for that. Also, even after a full clean down, the hens will probably be carrying enough to start another colony. It's just a war of attrition.
-
Justin, we didn't bury our deer fencing for our chicken run but turned a couple of feet out and banged in tent pegs every now and then, the grass soon grew through it and anchored it down.
I would though advocate gamekeepers netting to protect the top of the run ("don't spoil the ship for a h'appence of tar!") as foxy will find his way over the fence eventually.
-
sorry Womble, I didn't read carefully enough. Yours is a good idea
-
Devonlady, what do you mean by gamekeepers netting and do you mean that I should create a roof over the whole run or is it to go at the top of the fences?
-
Depending on the size of your run a margin of about 4ft (2metres?) around the perimiter should keep foxes out
-
Ah, thanks for that.
-
OK, think we have a plan now. The fence posts have all arrived and will be going in the ground later in the week. I'm going to Hills of Devon tomorrow morning to pick up fencing supplies. Think I've settled on 1"x1" for the bottom half and 2"x2" for the top half, unless anyone thinks it makes more sense to go with 1"x1" all round.
Have to figure the best way to build gates that will give as little gap at the bottom as possible.
Photos next week hopefully :)
-
1x1 at the top might be too heavy depending on your posts, we had to use a lighter 1x1 than ideal for the roof. Remember that regarding metal mesh thickness the higher the number means the thinner the strands of mesh (e.g. 19g is too thin, you'll need 16g or 14g), that confused me at first :)
I agree with previous posts: thinking big is a good thing when it comes to chickens. Good on you :)
-
the posts should take the weight, but it seemed pointless to put heavier mesh than necessary, the lower levels is going to be where the brunt of any attack will be.
The wire is 1.6mm, which is 14 guage I believe, strongest they do at the smaller sizes.
Looks like we have a plan :)
-
Either a pegged down bit of wire mesh or a cement "door step" will do the trick :fc:
-
Great, thanks.
Built the chicken house today and picked up all the fencing wire. Tomorrow we bang the posts in :)