The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Pedwardine on April 18, 2013, 10:30:46 pm
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Gretchen our little ewe lamb is struggling. She was born with very gurgly breathing. We gave her Spectam thinking it was indicative of rattle belly. She seemed better for a day or so but got chesty again. We gave her 1ml of Pen Strep, every other day for six days. She also has a side to side wobble which we've concluded may be swayback. She had a 5ml of Farmer's Choice (contains copper) in the hope that it would help in the absence of any injectable copper. We put her out on the paddock today with her mum and brother as it was sunny and not quite so windy. Though her standing has been for longer periods and I've been excercising her back legs, I was concerned with her tendency to fall over. She can sometimes get up again and at other times just spins round and round on her side on the spot. She tried to stick with mum who she suckles well if she can lean against her a little at the same time. However her brother was going loopy with being outside and mum kept chasing him and Gretchen kept falling. As I picked her up for the umpteenth time I thought her breathing sounded the worst it has yet like someone having a really bad asthma attack, shallow and raspy. Mum wasn't doing very well by her and I figured Gretchen would only end up being a meal for a fox stranded somewhere in the middle of the paddock if she didn't otherwise die of exposure. So, I've brought her in. I made a bit of a big decision to give her a half mil of intramuscular injectable steroid for that awful breathing. She's comfied up in a dog cage and is warm and safe. I'm sure to see her regularly and hold her. She hasn't wanted much from the bottle and I can hear mum outside in the distance calling for her. I really don't know what else to do. I really feel we're going to lose her and I really don't want to :'(
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I can't think of anything you haven't already done. It's very hard trying to comprehend a situation from a written description - certainly couldn't give guidance on whether this is a one that it's better to let go, or whether she's likely to come right. You are certainly giving her every chance. :hug:
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Thanks for replying Sally. I was beginning to think nobody would. If I could get her breathing clearer she'd have a better chance with everything else. I just think she hasn't the capacity to both breathe and suckle. She's so exhausted with the effort of every breath. I've even put some menthol and eucalyptus on her blanket. I'm ringing the vet this morning, see what they think.
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If it's swayback the copper deficiency would have been in the ewe's pregnancy and hindered the correct development of her neural network, so nothing to be done on that front, unfortunately. If she's having breathing problems the lack of oxygen could affect any or all of her vital organs. If there's something wrong on the outside there's often something wrong on the inside.
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I guess the copper issue is why the vet hasn't come back to me with a drug/product which may help. Got them looking into the breathing problem now. They're a good vets. If there's anything that can be done they'll hopefully find a solution. If not, I'll have to take her for a oneway visit :'(
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Thats a lovey picture of her :fc: she makes it ok.
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Vet has said I've done everything he would've tried. We've stomach tube fed her. She hated it-cried alot but she's now a full tum when she had an empty one. More antibiotics later on and another steroid jab tomorrow. All we can do now is hope. I confess I've prayed too :(
We fell asleep with her cuddled up on my chest earlier. Even in her sleep her breathing doesn't calm down. :fc:
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Its good to get confirmation from the vet that you have done everything you could so well done for that.
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Could she have developed pneumonia as a result of having fluid in her lungs at birth possibly? If she does have pneumonia she would need a different antibiotic as pencillin isn't effective against pneumonia, and it may be worth trying a different AB if there is some infection going on?
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This is one of the saddest things i've heard! Got a tear on my eye.
Got everything crossed for you!
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Thanks Bionic, HF. Blacksheep, if it is pneumonia, I've long acting antibiotics such as Oxytetracycline. I guess it's worth a try hey? As vet said, "It's kill or cure time now".
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Hi, yes nothing to lose now if you try treating for pneumonia just in case. May be worth getting a dose of something like Draxxin from your vet though to really hit it if it is that, although I wouldn't delay and try the Oxytet now. Really hope she pulls though for you. :fc:
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Took Gretchen to my lovely neighbours back garden, away from the hustle and madness of our place for some air and some sunshine today. She took a few doddery steps and was certainly alert but THAT breathing. So heartbreaking. I've given her PenStrep today so don't think I can give a L.A. antibiotic as well so I'll do that tomorrow. Can't believe how stupid I was to not provide her with a water bowl. Noticed she looked dry mouthed. I guess I just didn't suss that lambs need water too. After she gulped down the water I tried a bowl of milk thinking 'hey she might just drink for herself this way' but no go. Stomach tubing time again. Poor soul.
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have been told by our vet that you can give allamycin even if they have had pen and strep, but you may want to ring your vet to double check
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Only just catching up, as been house moving. Sending you lots of :hug: .This post nearly had me in tears. You have done all you can for the little one - its so upsetting when these things happen.
I had two goat kids last year (they were two of triplets_) They must have swallowed fluid at birth, and struggled to suck. I put them on the bottle, and they were terrible at first, unable to suck and breathe. It was a struggle, and I felt like I was getting nowhere. The vet gave me jabs for them, and said only to have a tiny hole in their bottle, as they could only drink slow. Anyway, it was a long haul but they did improve.
Wish I was closer, so I could help. You must both be exhausted with the lambing. x
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Thanks Blacksheep. I'll ring vets and double check. It'll be tomorrow now-oh :o it IS tomorrow now. Lambing hey!
Mairi, bless you you've given me some hope. Maybe I'm trying with too open a teat. Anything is worth trying at this stage. We are utterly knackered. Snatches of 4 hours sleep at a time at most. It'll be worth it. People think we're crazy to be so full on but our sheep deserve all the care we can give. I wish we had some help though sometimes. YAAAAAWWN :tired:
Hee hee I've been baaing at her trying to sound like mum and get her to baa back. Daft old bugger aren't I! Just want her to still feel like a sheep. I don't think she's impressed ::)
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Gretchen has just died. Too upset to say more right now.
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Oh, I am sooo sorry :bouquet: I was willing her to pull through. At least she won't have a rattly chest in lamb heaven.
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Oh how sad. :bouquet: . It hurts so much when you lose one you have grown so fond of especially after all the care you have given. Take comfort in knowing you couldn't have done any more than you did for Gretchen. :hug:
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:hug: :hug: :hug:
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So sorry :(
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Awww,so so sorry....
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The only restbite you can take - is that you did the best and tried your hardest - lambie could not have asked for more.
Always a sad time x
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:hug: :hug: :hug:
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You did everything you could :hug:
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So, so sorry. :'( :bouquet: xx
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So sorry that you lost her, nothing worse than trying so hard and it not being enough. RIP Gretchen. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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So sorry Amanda :bouquet: , you did everything you could but it just wasn't to be. My Susie lamb will be looking after her in lamb heaven :hug: :hug: xxxx
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Thanks lovely people. Have given myself a lovely big inconvenient migraine crying over her now...
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Sorry to hear that you lost her its so hard especially when you have tried so hard but you gave her the best chance :hug: :bouquet:
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My beautiful Damson will take care of her on the other side :bouquet: :bouquet:
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So sorry .... you could not have done anything more. And its so sad when this happens. Sending you lots of :hug: xxx
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Thankyou my lovelies. :-*
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:bouquet: :hug:
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so sorry to read that... :bouquet: :bouquet: :bouquet: Fi xxx
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I can speak about it now. Was so upset at the time. We had to stomach tube Gretchen and I believe that we got it down the wrong way as milk started coming out of her nose. It was our third attempt. The first two we could hear her breathing down the tube. The third we could not. Both listened. Both as confident as we could be and yet still it happened. OH insists he 'killed' her as he put the tube in each time but I thought it was in correctly too. He couldn't bear my weeping and wailing and holding on to her. I was really traumatised. I got him to swing her like a newborn to try and clear the liquid but it was too late. She was just too fragile and her lungs were so compromised before we inflicted such an ordeal on her. I don't think she would have made old bones with the very obvious swayback anyway but it was so appalling a way for her to go. He can't talk about her, just feels such a horrible person but I can't and don't blame him. It was ignorance on both sides. It's all just too too dreadful and we both feel so guilty. There, I've said it. I've had a migraine for the last two days from crying so much. She was so beautiful.
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That is so sad but you both put a lot of time and effort into her and you did your very best so don't go blaming yourselves for trying to help.
Saying that I know I would feel exactly the same. We can't help being softies.
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Pedwardine and hubby. There was almost CERTAINLY some kind of internal problem and the fact that the tubed liquid coming out of the nose proves it. You did everything right and tried your dam hardest in every way, but you can bet your bottom dollar there was some kind of internal cockup in her 'makeup' that NO ONE could have predicted or done anything about. Tell OH that the two of you were a great team, you checked and double checked and nothing BUT NOTHING else could have been done by you or anyone else. You are both stars for persevering and giving that lamb every possible chance, but if the 'makeup' internally is wrong..............
:bouquet: :hug: :bouquet: :hug: :bouquet: :hug: :bouquet: :hug:
xxxx
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Actually it is quite difficult to put the tube down the "wrong way", it won't go in very far, as the lungs end way above the stomach. So you probably did NOT kill her with the tube, if she had swayback and was very unsteady on her feet she would have never made it to adulthood.
Please don't beat yourself up about it, you did what you could - you will always loose some animals. And this massve tiredness at lambing time really doesn't help :tired: :tired: :tired: ...
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Thankyou all. The tube only had it's red top showing so had gone the full length down. I really felt ashamed at the way she'd died and that we'd failed her so miserably, but your comments have helped so much. Got hubby to read Blinkers' post and it's helped him too. It didn't help that we are so tired and emotions are running high. Migraine still not gone and had another little weep just now at your kindness. Gotta stop this crying, can't afford to be off duty at mo. Bless you guys. xx
P.S. Got a poorly mum and her three lambies therefore to feed out on the field at mo. Mum is getting better now and her babies are doing great. She has a tiny little boy at 2kg who looks as cute as a button in his miniature jack russell jacket (Donated by a friend. He gets cold at night still-must get a pic of that up). He and his not much bigger brother both have a good bottle feed then are up on my knee for a cuddle and a nap. They're beautiful little boys. The biggest boy has a token feed but is obviously doing okay still from mum. Gretchen's brother who was very wonky to start has straightened up and is sometimes even leading the gang of lambies on the tearing around the field sessions.
Darcie, our girl who had dreadful ketosis is looking so much better and strength is improving every day. I think the sun on their backs makes a huge difference. Life does go on doesn't it!
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Second all Blinkers has said.
Having tubed many small species ( sorry not farm animals,just dogs, cats, rabbits etc ) I would say it is almost impossible to get the tube into the airway without the animal fighting and coughing as you block the airway. If she didnt cough and gasp for air it would have been in the stomach. It was most likely an internal problem causing a reflux of the milk which subsequently got inhaled after syringing, in which case it would have happened even when she suckled from mum. It sounds to me like there was an irreversible problem.
Whatever the reason for her loss, you did all you could to the best ability. Nobody is to blame at all. She had the bestlove and care anyone could wish for in her short life. :bouquet:
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Life DOES go on Pedwardine - and as an old farmer friend said to me years and years ago "if you don't want dead animals, you shouldn't keep live ones" . At the time, I thought what a miserable old git he was (I was having a pony put down at the time !!), but when I thought about it afterwards, never a truer word was said and I've repeated it many a time since that day.
Come on honey bun, chin up - what about these gorgeous Gotlands I'm after :hug: :hug: xx