The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Ina on May 08, 2013, 05:50:59 pm
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Bloody hell. When will these dog owners accept responsibility for their "dear little pets"?! Unfortunately, a lot of dog owners seem to think it's ok to let them roam free - it's the countryside, after all, and let all those who own other livestock (it's not just sheep) make sure that the dogs can't access them.
But typical: the article only mentions the financial impact; no mention of stress and emotional consequences...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-22450088 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-22450088)
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Totally agree... Awful story. Though it works both ways. We have paid hundreds of pounds ensure our front garden is puppy proof. Next door it took 3 complaints before electric fencing went up to stop the neighbours sheep from destroying my newly laid hedging.
Responsible dog owners do look after their animals just as responsible sheep owners don't let their livestock destroy other people's property.
Its lack of consideration for others which is at the heart of this... And unfortunately there can be selfish and unthinking people from all walks of life.
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Being on both sides of the 'fence' --- I have pets that could destroy gardens if given a chance as well as a wild-born and bred dingo that could possibly be tempted by livestock --- I think it's best to invest in both good fencing and a livestock guardian that kills dogs. My feral's not attacked mine or anyone else's livestock yet, at 2 years old, but if he did and he got shot or killed by guardians it'd be just too bad. That's the way it'd have to be. I don't see why anyone with vulnerable livestock like poultry or sheep wouldn't invest in a good few llamas/donkeys/ livestock guardian dogs, or whatever. Buy some peace of mind, if you can. Damara rams (and the rest of the flock) are dog-killers, but you need an average of three to five before they're effective.
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It totally annoys me that people walk the path here with their dogs off the lead - they always say - 'my dogs used to other animls' - well so is mine - its hard them born in the same shed - but catch the dog by surprise, one snap and its over - dog reaction.
If you have nver seen your dog break that limit - you dont know your dog - take it back home and lock it in the kitchen for the day!
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We had yet another dog walker with his dog running free last weekend. With OH impolitely yelling at him to get his dog on a lead as we had livestock. As the dog continued to charge about eventually finishing up in my porch helping itself to cat biscuits the owner came strolling up to argue his dog wouldn't touch the sheep . OH was livid and strenuously warned him of the possible consequences of his complacency and disregard :o
Sadly they just don't bloody get it do they
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:o Incredible !!!!!
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We have terrible trouble with people and their dogs with having a footpath through the field. We have given up telling people as they are just so ignorant its beyond belief. Living next to a town and a rather poor one at that only escaltes the problem. Most of the dogs that come through are either terriers, lurchers or staffy crosses.
However the biggest problem we have is with young lads coming lamping on a night. They have been told twice by myself not to. Next time I'm just going to get the police. Sick to death of it. This year we have 50 sheep, all of which were in lamb. In late December some lampers came and frightened the sheep to death. Three died through exhaustion and one died through facial injuries by a dog. One was found 2 days later stuck in amongst some thick undergrowth. By now all our sheep should have had lambs. The first 5 had still borns and 35 are yet to do anything. Its a disaster. Might not be related but cant say it would have helped. Its got so bad that we are desperate to move. The sheep are also out with two broodmares who have rather valuable foals in them.
We have thought about getting a llama like our neighbour, which has worked for him. His llama has been attacked a few times but so far not the sheep. But with the footpath I just cant do it as if anything happens to anyone or their dog I'm responsible and will no doubt be sued.
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I don't see why anyone with vulnerable livestock like poultry or sheep wouldn't invest in a good few llamas/donkeys/ livestock guardian dogs, or whatever.
Livestock guardian dogs aren't a viable option here in Britain, sadly, or I'd have three Maremmas. :love: :dog:
And for us, we have sheep in a number of different fields (currently 12 in use), usually no more than 30 sheep in a batch. If I had to have a couple of llamas alongside every group of sheep, I'd have to forfeit 20% of my sheep headcount to supply the grazing for the llama guardians!
And the climate and ground aren't suitable for donkeys.
Is why.
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:bouquet: to everyone who's lost sheep or had sheep injured.
We think we had a dog attack this year; we had a ewe down with shock who subsequently died. There was little to see except some pulled wool, and the ewe had a painful shoulder - the skin wasn't even broken but it 'crackled' as it would if it had been pulled away from her flesh. The veterinary nurse helping us at the time stated that, "Her injuries were consistent with a dog bite".
A man walking two dogs, one aggressive and on-lead and another very pleasant Staffy off-lead, had been seen in the next field...
Here's what I think probably happened. Nice Staffy, not a sheep-harming dog, bouncing about being a nice dog. Two young lambs, inquisitive, wandered up to Staffy to say Hi. Staffy says Hi back. Mother Ewe, worried, comes over and butts Staffy, who quite understandably snaps at her. A bit of a tussle ensues, Staffy just defending herself from agitated Mother Ewe. Owner collects dog and removes it from the scene. Ewe takes her lambs to a safe corner and collapses.
We fetched her in and treated her but despite our best efforts she died in the night. :'(
So I'm a good young ewe to be carted away, two cracking young lambs now to be reared on the bottle. :(
The only good thing is that I now tell that story to people I see walking their dogs off lead, making it clear that the dog in question was a really nice friendly dog - and yet still a ewe died.
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Terrible how much damage a dog can do, even as you said a friendly dog. Specially around lambing time.
@SallyintNorth: that's unfortunate, being unable to have any livestock guardians. No Maremmas allowed, or possibly Anatolians either? Why not? Are they illegal where you live? Not that we don't have enough bodgy Maremmas where we live, too many people breeding them as pets then not training them... They aren't usually able to be good pets, either.
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I have a large number of sheep on land that has public access and I am wondering about getting a couple of Wilts Horn tups vasectomised and running them with the ewes year round.....
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My own paddocks have no right of ways through them but one small paddock that I rent from the chapel does. Luckily the path is not signed and only this year has anyone used it. A couple staying at the nearby holiday cottage. We are lucky that we get hardly any walkers at all here. They asked if they could walk through with their lab. on a leash. I couldn't say no but told them that the ewes were heavily in lamb. They went to the gate and the Soay came to "meet" them. They commented on the fact that they were funny looking and had big horns and asked if I would watch them through which I did. The ewes followed them closely all the way through. They told me the next morning that they had decided not to walk that way as my sheep didn't seem very happy with them in the field.
Maybe some sheep with big horns might put off some people but I doubt it would work with all.
Would a vasectomised tup approach people and dogs enough to put them off?
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Maremmas aren't illegal, no, but with small fields, multiple public rights of way, multiple roads... simply not a viable option. If I was still on the moorland farm, 1000 acres in a ring fence, just one road in and out and it doesn't go anywhere else, and just one seldom-used public footpath, then maybe - but not where I am now. There are tens of thousands of visitors every year to the Roman Wall site, two national trails, any number of cyclists...
Not to mention our stupid laws would no doubt mean that we would be sued by the owners of any dog attacked by our livestock guardians, however justifiably... ::) and the same would be true of any guardian tup, too, Steve.
My family used to have a very small factory in the Midlands, situated next to a railway line. Every Bank Holiday, hoodlums would get onto the railway tracks, jump across to the roof of the factory, break in, cause some damage and nick a computer or two. Every Bank Holiday, the thieves would be well away by the time the police arrived... Eventually the works manager put coils of barbed wire inside the skylights to prevent the thugs getting into the offices even if they got onto the roof and broke the glass. The factory's own insurance company told them to take the barbed wire out, since even though anyone who was injured by it would necessarily be in the throes of breaking and entering, apparently there was lots of case law where just such a criminal was able to successfully sue the owner of the premises for causing actual bodily harm. ::). Stark staring bonkers. (Shakes head in disbelief.)
So the chances are slim to nonexistant of being allowed to have any kind of livestock guarding creature that is actually allowed to protect your livestock by any means more than holding up a sign saying, "BOO! (please, if you don't mind)" - that is, after holding up a sign saying, "If you are of a nervous disposition or have a weak heart, please look away now." ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Not to mention our stupid laws would no doubt mean that we would be sued by the owners of any dog attacked by our livestock guardians, however justifiably... ::) and the same would be true of any guardian tup, too, Steve.
I have unvasectomised tups in there in autumn...
Maybe I should go back to my original plan. Does anyone know where I can get a dairy bull? ;D
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Not to mention our stupid laws would no doubt mean that we would be sued by the owners of any dog attacked by our livestock guardians, however justifiably... ::) and the same would be true of any guardian tup, too, Steve.
I have unvasectomised tups in there in autumn...
Maybe I should go back to my original plan. Does anyone know where I can get a dairy bull? ;D
Same applies, in spades. And whatever you do, don't put up "Beware of the Bull" signs - that's tantamount to saying, "Please sue me" ::)
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Not to mention our stupid laws would no doubt mean that we would be sued by the owners of any dog attacked by our livestock guardians, however justifiably... ::) and the same would be true of any guardian tup, too, Steve.
I have unvasectomised tups in there in autumn...
Maybe I should go back to my original plan. Does anyone know where I can get a dairy bull? ;D
Same applies, in spades. And whatever you do, don't put up "Beware of the Bull" signs - that's tantamount to saying, "Please sue me" ::)
Oh good, I much prefer a surprise attack....
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same dogs that killed one of our suffolk wethers have gone on to kill 3 ewes and injure many more on a neighbours land > I am absolutely livid as nothing was done before and it seems that nowt will be done this time...the dogs are being sent to 'anger management classes' in cumbria :rant:
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same dogs that killed one of our suffolk wethers have gone on to kill 3 ewes and injure many more on a neighbours land > I am absolutely livid as nothing was done before and it seems that nowt will be done this time...the dogs are being sent to 'anger management classes' in cumbria :rant:
That's terrible. But perhaps if they do do it again after the training, then at least the court can show that they've done everything possible, worked with the owners, etc - and can then issue a destruction order.
The dogs' owners aren't councillors, magistrates, and/or have funny handshakes....?
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OMG - that field's near where a couple of ex-TASers live :o I hope their stock is ok :fc:
An avid life-long owned by a dog person myself, I really can't understand why folks don't take better care of their canine companions ::) Little mutly may very well seem to ignore sheep when on it's lead, but it can soon revert into "wolf pack mode" when loose with other dogs.