The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: deepinthewoods on August 17, 2012, 06:18:14 pm
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id really appreciate it if i could get some advice on what hourly rate you would be happy to pay for someone offering a bespoke joinery/restoration service. my personal circumstances are about to change and i need to somehow find an extra 100/ week to pay my rent or im going to have to move back into bedsit land with my daughter, ive been advised that im charging too little for what i do.
if anyone has recently employed a time served chippy or joiner or indeed is one, what is the going rate per hour? thanks in advance. dave
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One of my neighbours does bespoke joinery, Dave, I'll ask him. He makes lovely things. When his wife says Pete made the bed, she really means it, he actually made the bed!!
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thanks sylvia, i also made the bed, and the tables :D
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different trades but people i know doing specialist bespoke work assuming just normal overheads charge £20 per hour plus depending on the demand for their products etc...
remember your not just charging for your time but your tools and other over heads as well
(sorry if thats stating the obvious i don't know how business brained you are, have heard your a gifted joiner though)
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Joiners average 150 a day on site. But bespoke is a different animal all together. Usually you price on a job, so someone wants a table making, it takes you 3 days + materials so your looking at £600-£1000 dependant on timber and other items.
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It does depend on which part of the country you are in. People in Home counties for example expect to pay alot more for someones services, but up in Scotland we wouldn't get away with charging alot, we just wouldn't find the work. Also am I wrong in saying most people charge by the job, I know if we have had joinery work done, we have always been given a fixed price for the job rather than by the hour. I must admit I am wary of paying by the hour as unscruplous people can linger in their work and push the price up, not that I am saying for one minute you would do that but you know what I mean.
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all our work is by the job but you still need a day rate to use for your own calculations for a job.
i dropped my day rate when i came from the midlands to scotland but thats more because i need to rebuild my client base and need to be working.
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Can you ring up a few local joiners on the pretence of wanting something bespoke done and see what they say?
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Hi Deepinthewoods
You must charge what you feel the job is worth and do not ever do yourself down, if someone asks for a price and they are not happy then move onto the next job, you are a skilled craftsman, I have been down that route myself and have now butched up so to speak, if someone wants you service they will pay the asking price as long as they are not being mugged.
But we all understand that the price must be pitched according to circumstances
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A carpenter friend has recently charged me 'mates rate' of £10 an hour - anyone else he would charge £20 an hour in this area (South West). It is a difficult balance if you are building up clients but don't under-sell yourself. Good luck.
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thanks all very useful.
i think im too cheap!!!basically, i restore sash windows, bringing them up to 'as good as new', that involves replacing any rotten members, reglazing with 'thermo' glass and fitting draft strips. most of my work is to listed or heritage buildings, and i way exceed the remit. i figure that the windows are either restored or replaced and replacing 270yr old sash windows is gonna cost! ive been charging 12.50, im going to charge £18, i can restore most sash windows in around 30hrs so that would put an 8ft x 3 1/2 ft window at around £750 (including materials).
does that sound reasonable to you?
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if you look at what they would cost them to replace thats a bargain
if you have a property that needs that kind of window you are going to have to pay for it...
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I've no particular experience with joinery, but my general experience suggests that you should charge more.
It is so easy to undercharge because customers never tell you that they would have paid twice what you quoted but they always tell you when they want to pay half what you quote.
At £18/hr you only need to find (and do) 2/3rds the work to earn the same as at £12 an hour. So the one-in-three people that turn you down as too expensive is just saving you work but not costing you money! Not to mention customers willing to pay more are usually better customers, those who haggle over hourly rates invariably end up taking twice as long to settle up when the invoices arrive!
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thanks all very useful.
i think im too cheap!!!basically, i restore sash windows, bringing them up to 'as good as new', that involves replacing any rotten members, reglazing with 'thermo' glass and fitting draft strips. most of my work is to listed or heritage buildings, and i way exceed the remit. i figure that the windows are either restored or replaced and replacing 270yr old sash windows is gonna cost! ive been charging 12.50, im going to charge £18, i can restore most sash windows in around 30hrs so that would put an 8ft x 3 1/2 ft window at around £750 (including materials).
does that sound reasonable to you?
Ring another area, like 50 miles away and ask for a quote. Give as much over the phone as you can and get a 'ball park' figure. Take 3 of these and you have your 'average' rate.
Dodgy job +20%
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thanks all very useful.
i think im too cheap!!!basically, i restore sash windows, bringing them up to 'as good as new', that involves replacing any rotten members, reglazing with 'thermo' glass and fitting draft strips. most of my work is to listed or heritage buildings, and i way exceed the remit. i figure that the windows are either restored or replaced and replacing 270yr old sash windows is gonna cost! ive been charging 12.50, im going to charge £18, i can restore most sash windows in around 30hrs so that would put an 8ft x 3 1/2 ft window at around £750 (including materials).
does that sound reasonable to you?
We've paid about £1000 for a new sash window, double glazed with 'plant on' glazing bars. Then there was the fitting cost and a a small amount of redecorating after.
HTH
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Well I am having all my windows replaced at the moment by a bespoke joiner. A lot of them are gothic type arched windows and I am paying about £1400 per window plus fitting! sash windows are so expensive to replace (a friend in London was quoted something like 10000!) so I do think you are undercharging. at the end of the day, I think you would be much better off charging per job - unless you are on a site build where it is perhaps more usual for an hourly rate, but then I dare say, that it's the quality aspect that should sell you!
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ok thats great help, im sort of realising that i might need to relaunch my buisness.
moleskins and greenerlife, were these replacement windows to exactly replicate the originals? when you ordered the windows, what were the requirements, eg did the glass have to be 'heritage' type?
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Just so you have some idea - for your highly skilled trade, you are charging what I charge for general ag labour/handyman stuff if people need it; for example I top one persons fields (25ac) using their tractor and their diesel for £15/h.
Seems to me you are far too cheap - you couldn't get someone to mow your lawn using your mower for less than £10/h round here.
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To be honest, differant areas of the country determine the pricing structure, you could try asking your friends in your area to get made up quotes/estimates from other similar type joiners/carpenters to find 'your area' market price.
I know its a bit underhand but knowing your competition is important. :innocent:
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well ive just finished a repair job and billed at £18/h and the guy didnt bat an eyelid. ive just had a 50% payrise yay!!!!!
thanks for all the advice :thumbsup:
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Well done :thumbsup:
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I'm a plasterer self employed own business and I charge £20 an hour minimum and that does not includes my transport and material costs . don't sell youself too cheaply if you supply a good service to a very good standard then you are worth every penny.
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I'm a chippy and I would have said £18 is a good rate you will start loosing business at much more. The problem with being too expensive is in a small community that gets round and you will find the phone stops ringing.Also there are a lot of good chippys out there with little or no work and willing to undercut.
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ok thats great help, im sort of realising that i might need to relaunch my buisness.
moleskins and greenerlife, were these replacement windows to exactly replicate the originals? when you ordered the windows, what were the requirements, eg did the glass have to be 'heritage' type?
Yes - to a point! My windows were bodged by the last owner of my house (boo hiss cheapskate) and I am trying to get back as close as I can get to e originals, but with modern glass technology for insulation (and double glazed). Still Leaded glass though. Whilst our quote listed each window individually priced, as we are going to get all of them done, I will be negoatiating on the overall price, as I believe that if I am replacing 9 gothic arch windows then the set up costs are quite large, but economies of scale etc etc.... (we live in hope)
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A carpenter I know charges £20 an hour for straight forward woodwork. I think £18 is too little but you can't put it up too much too soon. Go for £18 for six months then add a bit more.
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Hi Deep in the woods
I run my own building business and for hrly rates inc all insurances and on costs ie, van, tools,fuel .You cannot charge any less than £18.00per hr. As mentioned in other post there is others who will undercut as it is dog eat dog in the construction industry at the minute but remember you are not a charity.The only other bit of advice is you are only as good as your last job.One good job takes months/yrs for folk to hear of one bad job takes days for people to hear off.Weve just had one off our projects featured in one of the glossy Homebuilding and renovating mags and we didnt even know client had submitted it so was nice surprise.Remember no charitable status in your companies name. :) :)
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I think £18 ph sounds right. I wouldn't think that too much if we ever got round to having our sash windows etc sorted out we'd pay that.
I also seem to remember 'someone' giving me some very useful advice about not underselling my craft and upon that advice I put my prices up and people still continued to buy my soap without any qualms ;) Go for it, from what I can gather you are a skilled craftsman and word of mouth will keep you very busy. [size=78%] [/size]
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ok thats great help, im sort of realising that i might need to relaunch my buisness.
moleskins and greenerlife, were these replacement windows to exactly replicate the originals? when you ordered the windows, what were the requirements, eg did the glass have to be 'heritage' type?
Ours did have to look the same as the originals but they had a sealed double glazed unit in and the 'glazing bars' were stuck on after to give the appearance of individual pieces of glass. They also have to put a 'glazing bar' inbetween the double glazed unit to carry off the illusion.