The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: clydesdaleclopper on October 16, 2011, 05:58:58 pm
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I was wondering if any of you could suggest anything for our old lady. I think she is about 11 (she was a rescue) and she is really thin and missing a few teeth. The goats are in a 1.5 acre field with gorse, brambles and trees as well as grass. They are getting sugar beet, Alfa A oil and goat nuts with added seaweed, garlic and cider vinegar. I've also given her a multi vitamin shot I got from the vet and they have been wormed recently. She is my eldest son's favourite animal on the holding and I am trying all I can think of to keep her going but with the bad weather imminent I'm wondering if I should cull her or if there is something else you can think of that I could try in order to get some weight on her.
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Oh bless her. Have you thought about a goat coat or maybe converting an old woolly jumper for her to help keep her warm. Just a thought, hopefully someone with a lot more knowledge than me can give you further guidance. Good luck.
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you can ask the vet to check her teeth, i know with sheep it is possible for a vet to remove the wobbly ones. when they are gummers (no front teeth left) they can eat just as well as when they had a full mouth.
also we used to give the old biddies a liquid molasses feed in a roller feeder. all they had to do was lick.
i agree with the goat coat, the less energy she uses to keep warm the more weight she can put on, so a coat and a well bedded shelter with full hay racks (so she doesn't have to go out if she is chilly) would help loads too.
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I found a pattern for a goat coat by googling it. Very easy to make. I used a quilted bedspread inside a cotton duvet cover, both from a charity shop for a fiver and made two coats. :goat:
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Oh and I know someone who has a seventeen year old goat. My old girl will be 11 next April and I'm still milking her. :goat:
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I make goat rugs.... they are modelled on mini horse rugs and are guaranteed to stay inplace and not slip.
As far as feed goes change to cattle nuts, loss of condition can be due to lack of a number of important minerals including COPPER. Don't forget goats need as much copper as a cow to maintain their body condition, and all goat feed is made safe by including SHEEP minerals mainly.
Allen & Page do a feed called Fast Fibre, which you soak for a few minutes before feeding... I have used this very successfully on old goats.... my oldest was 19 !! She probably has a problem with the harder Alfa A... try Mollichaff Condition instead, it is much softer. I have just changed my 30 year old horse onto it and he is eating much better now.
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I make goat rugs.... they are modelled on mini horse rugs and are guaranteed to stay inplace and not slip.
As far as feed goes change to cattle nuts, loss of condition can be due to lack of a number of important minerals including COPPER. Don't forget goats need as much copper as a cow to maintain their body condition, and all goat feed is made safe by including SHEEP minerals mainly.
Allen & Page do a feed called Fast Fibre, which you soak for a few minutes before feeding... I have used this very successfully on old goats.... my oldest was 19 !! She probably has a problem with the harder Alfa A... try Mollichaff Condition instead, it is much softer. I have just changed my 30 year old horse onto it and he is eating much better now.
Thanks for that. I did notice that they had run out of the red Rockies lick which is the one with copper so I have just replaced that one. I'll have a look at the Fast Fibre - I went for the Alfa A Oil as it is much higher calorie with the oil content and she does seems to manage to eat it ok.
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I don't rely on goats using licks... I add the minerals to their feed.... this way I know they have had the correct amount.
I can give you details of a mineral mix & arrange for a free sample to be sent to you, if you would like.
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I don't rely on goats using licks... I add the minerals to their feed.... this way I know they have had the correct amount.
I can give you details of a mineral mix & arrange for a free sample to be sent to you, if you would like.
That would be great. Thanks
One thing I was wondering is whether some of the herbs that I feed the horses might help. I have Linseed, yea-sacc, rosehips, brewers yeast and hawthorn berries at the moment. Would these be safe to feed the goats?
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I gave you my telephone number in a PM.... if you would like to call me as a matter of urgency I can help you.
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Changing her feed as suggested by wytsend may certainly help especially if the problem is due to her teeth or a nutritional cause. Other things that may be worth considering is worming - I know you said that she has been wormed recently but resistance to wormers is not uncommon and it is also easy to underdose as well. You can have a poo sample checked for worm eggs. Another possibility is Johne's disease. This is a slow onset infectious disease that in cattle causes diarrhoea but in goats is more likely just to cause them to loose condition. It isn't always easy to diagnose but again a poo sample can be checked for it - positive is extremely reliable but negatives are less reliable. Unfortunately if it is Johne's it is bad news as she won't recover.
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Changing her feed as suggested by wytsend may certainly help especially if the problem is due to her teeth or a nutritional cause. Other things that may be worth considering is worming - I know you said that she has been wormed recently but resistance to wormers is not uncommon and it is also easy to underdose as well.
She has been treated with Pancur a few months ago and more recently with one that also treats Fluke - the dosage for that was recommended by the vet so I don't think that is the problem.
She has never been a good doer ever since we rescued her (about 2 years ago) but has deteriorated a lot over that past few months.
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I gave you my telephone number in a PM.... if you would like to call me as a matter of urgency I can help you.
Thanks I'll try to phone this evening when I don't have children to deal with.
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If she was wormed a few months ago then that doesn't really count as recent worming. BGS recommendations are actually to worm every three weeks from spring to autumn if no safe pasture is available. The description you give of your pasture is one where the goats have continuous access and therefore isn't safe from a worm point of view. Every three weeks does sound excessive and I don't do mine as frequently as that, but it will depend on how many goats are in that area. Also Panacur is from the group of wormers that most commonly have resistance to them so I don't think you can rule out worms. If she's never been a good doer for the last 2 years it does sound like there is an underlying reason.
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Just to say Ascott smallholding supplies are flashing up that they have goat coats in stock - might be worth a look, esp if she is a pet to your wee one.
"We are now offering goat coats to keep your animals warm all year round. There are cotton and fleece coats, designed for different weathers, or you can get a coat custom made. For more information, please visit www.ascott.biz (http://www.ascott.biz) or call 0845 130 6285."
NB if these ones arent waterproof I found a large greyhound dog coat worked well for a poorly ewe - perhaps a Great Dane sized one will work for Goatie
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I have in the past had goats get to 16 and 17 and neither of those seemed to lose their teeth, and kept weight on. Yet others get to their early teens, and lose condition. Its like any old anmal, coming into winter they do lose weight, and have to use any fat reserves to keep warm, so a coat may well be the answer.
As Wytsend says, the fast fibre is good, we use that for older ponies. Also soaked sugar beet, I soak it in warm water for the oldies, and they drink the water too. Oldies do struggle with certain types of hay, if this is the case, then one of the good quality horse chops are good.
Lack of minerals and vitamins can be the cause too.
To my mind, if the goat can still eat - may take a few tries to get feeds she can actually eat - and seems happy enough, then keep her going the best you can. Losing weight is part of the ageing process, and you may well find you cannot get the old goat fat.
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Losing weight is part of the ageing process.
There will be a reason for the weight loss, it may be age related in that one or more of the organs are failing but it isn't simply due to old age. I suggest speaking to your vet about her.
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My vet hmself ageed that the ageing process is a major contributing factor to an animal not doing well and keeping weight on. This was regarding my 32 year old pony, who was checked for anything and everything, and there was nothing amiss apart from her advancing years.
I have no wish to start an argument ;D - but my observation was based on 40 years of horse and goat keeping, and I stand by what I said about weight loss being due to advancing years. but was assuming that any other cause had been ruled out before accepting this.
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Sorry if I came over as arguementative it wasn't my intention. It just frustrates me when something such as poor condition gets put down to simply being old age, especially when the animal concerned doesn't appear to have had the simplist of investigations or seen recently by a vet. :)
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:) I do see your point, Hopewell .....not suggesting for a moment you wanted an argument, just that sometimes on forums, things can get a bit, well, heated.......and I am all for a quiet life ....most of the time!
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There will be a reason for the weight loss, it may be age related in that one or more of the organs are failing but it isn't simply due to old age. I suggest speaking to your vet about her.
I have spoken to our vet but they seem to know nothing about goats which is why I posted on here as people seem much more knowledgable than a vet who never sees goats.
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If she was wormed a few months ago then that doesn't really count as recent worming. BGS recommendations are actually to worm every three weeks from spring to autumn if no safe pasture is available. The description you give of your pasture is one where the goats have continuous access and therefore isn't safe from a worm point of view. Every three weeks does sound excessive and I don't do mine as frequently as that, but it will depend on how many goats are in that area. Also Panacur is from the group of wormers that most commonly have resistance to them so I don't think you can rule out worms. If she's never been a good doer for the last 2 years it does sound like there is an underlying reason.
There are 2 goats in the 1.5 acres. I've spoken to Wytsend last night and I'm going to try an Ivermectin wormer on her.
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If she's never been a good doer for the last 2 years it does sound like there is an underlying reason.
Is she CAE tested?
does she have knobbly knees?
:goat:
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Hope you get it sorted soon. :goat:
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I have spoken to our vet but they seem to know nothing about goats which is why I posted on here as people seem much more knowledgable than a vet who never sees goats.
I'd find another vet, The one we use for dogs didn't know what I was talking about when I asked about CAE testing. I was going to phone one about 12miles away, but thought I'd phone one slightly nearer, who I thought would be a 'pet vet', turns out she does work for other local 'goaty' people I know. I'm happy to split work between vets if they know their own stuff.
There again, it might be worth taking the dogs to her as well, she certainly seemed on the ball up to our vet, who diagnosed a dog with bronchitus, a week later after pushing tablets down the poor boys throat, had him xrayed-so full of cancer we didn't wake him up, poor boy, he suffered that last week, it still hurts me.
sorry to hijack the thread-back to goats - hope she picks up.
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certainly worth a CAE test - can make the goat a "poor doer" and old, doddery, and boney....
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We had her CAE tested when we rescued her and she's not been off the premises since so I didn't think it was likely.
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thats good then ... just old age :)
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Well we managed to get a good look at her molars today and they are really sharp so I think that might be an issue (thanks to Wytsend for suggesting this). The vet is going to come over and file them down and see if that makes a difference.
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Get him to check the condition of the inside of her cheeks.... there might be abrasions there which are sore.
If so, ask him for some antibiotic as a goat mouth can be harbouring all sorts of bacteria which would be no problem normally but if abrasions are present might cause minor infection.
Goat molars are usually sharper than incisors but it is also possible that her teeth are out of alignment which would make cudding less effective.
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Goat molars are usually sharper than incisors
Oh yes, and don't we know about it... trying to put a bottle into a reluctant kid's mouth has drawn blood if not fully awake for first feed at 6am... several times this spring....