The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Introduce yourself => Topic started by: Fruit of gods on May 13, 2009, 03:52:12 pm
-
Hello all.
Please please help, if you can
This is to do with North East Lincs Council (they moved the green belt when they wanted to build)
Right, My mums been living on a small holding for over 30yrs and after splitting from her partner, last year, has moved back to the small holding full time. Instead of flitting between te two homes.
My mum and her partner own the small holding and rented a shooting lodge. They used the small holding to provide the game birds for the shooting rights.
They have owned the small holding for 30yrs and have paid council tax for all but one year (due to finances)
Due to the old caravan having more leaks than cover, we bought here a double unit, with an apex roof added within the month to home the hot water tank and so on.
Now the council, or should I say one person in particular, has put a complaint forward and now wants the lot pulling down.
The first problem he says we have is the fact that the roof is over 10ft.....
he says it has to be reduced down to this.
I then said that I would dig down and lower the overall hight......
NO No NO was his reply
He then said that it was not a double unit but a single residence...!!!
Anyway, the bloke seems to be trying his hardest to be a prick.....And he is good at it ;D
Now they have told me that I may not have to do anything as te lot might have to come down..
Now I cant afford to throw money at the courts, let alone the time.
My mums 62 and getting prepared to rip the lot down and move out...
The land is registered as a small holding and animals have always been down here as well as a number of commercial incubators.
The caravan she had previously had a large conservatory built on its side for over 9yrs which was permanent.
I thought that you were not allowed anything permanent otherwise you could get full permission if not complained about after 5yrs...
Anyway, as you can see, any help required and always offered.
Cheers
Sy
-
There is a '4 year rule' where if you live in a dwelling for 4 years, receive post, have services connected etc and the council do not tell you to move then you have the right to stay there! its a grey area though and has been quoted recently in the press where folk have attempted to win this right, but they have hidden the dwelling from view, therefore not really entitled to stay, as far as I know if you live between 2 dwellings then the time is 10 years, I'm not completely clued up on this but will see if I can find any more details onit!
-
Thankyou for your input and thanks in advance for any further help.
My mums always been reg'd at the small holding and her partner regd at the shooters lodge. Thats why in the 30yrs there has only been one years council tax not paid.
The double unit is still only for one person but is 2 x porta-cabins put together to form one half kitchen and living and the other, the bedroom and bathroom.
Just found on the web that the height has to be 10ft from floor to ceiling and is an internal measurement!? god knows and the council guy seems to think that he is and he knows ::)
Cheers
Sy
-
Friends, many years ago, in Dorset, in a similar situation won their case because they had permanent live stock, and could prove they needed to live on the premises to protect and take care of the livestock. Might a little article on local radio, and local paper help?
We moved to France because bungalow bought by property speculator had an overhang over our fence, was a fire hazard (which we did manage to do something about) and despite promises from the council that they would make him remove it all, they decided as he had got so far, it was a shame to make him change it. (He had worked for the planning dept. for a few years although at the time was a manager for a building firm). My point is that if you stick it out and keep fighting you will probably win as they dont want (probably cant afford) court cases where they might lose.
Good luck.
-
Theres 2 retired farmers with 30 years each of farming behind them that have a consultancy for planning and anything smallholding connected - ive been on there website once and they advertise in a colour ad in all the self sufficeincy magazines. They might be worth a phone call - im looking through old magazines now and will do again tonight to see if i can find there details.
-
A womann in our village was in the same predicament. The council refused her retrospective planning application for her double unit, she appealed to the scottish government and won!!!
Her home has been given planning consent.
If your mum is of pension age then they should qualify for legal aid, she did!!!
I think the rule is if the home owner can prove that they have been there for 10 years the they can stay.
But.....to be fair, some of these caravans and double units can be an eyesore, so maybe clean it up, wood panel it, paint it so it blends in. Thats what the woman did!!!
-
Don't guess. Get a good planning consultant used to dealing with rural matters. It will be worth it if they win your case.
-
Well worth going to the citizens advice bureau for some free advice initially, they'll certainly point you in the right direction.
-
And please keep us all informed as to how it goes.
-
Thanks for all your input and will keep you updated..got the meeting on Monday. Have emailed the council guy but no reply again and again.
Thanks again for all your quality feedback and showing that this site is more than just good information but good people as well.
Cheers
Sy
-
Good luck
Carole
-
Not got any more info as yet and have been emailing the council bod for the last 4 days with no reply....typical
Got the meerting on MOnday and have found out thaqt the same guy had raised issues with 2 other properties in the village with regards to the sites being untidy..
These people had expensive lawyers and have both received letters of appology.....this is the same week that our local MP has been suspended for taking 16k for his mortgage...even though itsd been paid..
It must be about time we kicked most of these tits out.....
I am not the most political but am seriously tempted to start my own party that is completely voluntary.
Centralise the whole expenses thing to let people submit their expenses and have people who went to contribute not have an easy ride...
NOW I know this is stereo typing and that some of those involved are involved for the right reason and can hold their heads high...but this is very few and im sick of being taken for granted and fleeced at every opportunity.
This country could be great but not while we are going in this direction
I dont believe in any of the current parties as they seem to all be singing from he same hymn sheet. Or very close
Why dont we work on a local basis and ge the people that are involved in the issues to be elected to speak for the greater common.
Not trying to re-invent the wheel just love this country b ut seem to get treated more like an individual with his own rights everywhere else but here....,,,
We are very close to a dictatorship that only seems to promote those in the know or those who can pave their way with gold...
Right...
End of my little rant...but surelyt many others must feel the same and a the end of the day we are the drivers of this country and are unable to blame anybody else for our problems
BUT IF YOUR IN GOVERMENT YOU SEEM TO GET A TEFLON COVERING THAT MAKES THE REST OF YOUR FUTURE RISK FREE< PROBLEM FREE AND CASH RICH>>>>>with our money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o ::) :sheep:
-
You've got me on board! I agree wholeheartedly. I'm Treasurer for a National dog club and just see anyone try to get money out of me without good reason and without correct and timeous receipts! No chance! Only 'out of pocket' expenses are allowed - that is, just the same as for the Inland Revenue - if the expenses were paid out wholly and exclusively for the Club. It's all very well saying, it's OK I will pay/have paid them back but they should never have got them in the first place!
-
the dictatorship you speak of is very close NOW as you say ... but wait till after next year when the EU has complete control over us in the UK . The EU IS a dictatorship no question about it . It is run by the EU commission , an unelected body that dictates laws etc to the EU government .They MUST abide by the laws set by the commission and in turn they enforce those laws on us . Our whole system will be pulled apart , IE , no barriers on immigration , millions of people able to just turn up and live here , as has been happening for a number of years now . We are unable to sustain this invasion and the EU know it . They need to break the UK and they have very nearly done so . If you want to see what is really going on from businesses , local council , and then government , take a look at youtube clips of Brian Gerrish talking about Common Purpose , it should scare the crap out of any honest, democratic free thinking person . It, Common Purpose, and the EU , are about one thing ...control . Control of us the people and of food and fuel . I know this can all look a bit conspiracy theory ish .. but spend a few hours researching , and you will think very differently. Try another one ... google "new world order" or type it in to youtube . There are a few head case ones about , but ignore those and look at the serious ones. It all leads back to CONTROL. This really isn't me going off on a wobbly , think about how they can follow your movements now by mobile phone . They can tell where you are within a few feet , very soon all new cars will have the black box in that will tell them where you are , how fast you are going where you parked your car everything . You will get speeding/parking fines through the post like confetti. Sat navs also allow them to see where you have been etc. They will be checking emails , where you look on the internet , they want all your details on ID cards . The next step that is already being trialled in the US , micro chips instead of ID cards for humans . They are a runaway train blasting downhill . When you read these things all together like this , you think "Oh God what a load of crap !!" well we already have to have complete proof of animal movement , individual passports etc , for cattle etc. They are just clamping down on every step of individual life and existence , and we allow it . It is about time WE said NO MORE !!!! WE ARE TAKING CONTROL BACK !!! The question is WILL WE ????????????????
Russ
-
You changed the rules when you removed the first until and put up a double. Without a complaint or letter for over 4 years entitled the building to be exempt as long as you could prove it was used as a full time dwelling. Now you have put up a new structure the loop hole was closed.... I suspect you are going to lose this one but I do strongly advise you seek legal advice and the CAB is a must if you can't afford.
Good luck and make sure you take legal advise or they will try to blind you with science!
-
:farmer: :farmer:
Have got hold of the council and done some ass kisssin and now have found out that it was a complaint from one person, who also sits on the council.....
We worked on the basis of gettin the village and some of the key people and business to help us...
AND
Theyve come forward in droves, showing that the community spirit is still alive and kicking but has to be kick started into action.
Its good to see that some nice people still out there as well as on here.
Thanks for your input and will post when next updated....
Take it easy and make sure your having fun.
p.s. Have inspired some friends to start a political party thatthey are looking at calling the Reflection party. Or sim name.
We are looking at a party that is voluntary and based on people voting for themselfs .
The people that get a say in the community are the people tat are prepared to contribute to the community.
GO TO BE IN IT TO WIN IT.
I know its early but seems that many people are interested and if interested, they look at starting the party within their own communities.
The party isnt labour, conserv, lib etc etc its all of us and all of our beliefs.
We are looking at a skill share and learn that enables us all to give something back to the community as well as building the spirit and have the resources local....
Helping those in need and those who want to progress.
Anyway, the whole structure is flexible as well being open source (like Linux OS if your a computer buff)
This means that the whole structure is transparent as well as being able to be changed and restructured at any time.
This means that we can all try to change things that dont work rather than just follow and fail.
You think you can do better, then please help and put your points forward and help build the infrastructure.
Lets have doctors runnin the health service, bankers doing banking and farmers doin farming rather than polititians with no exp being put in charge of something they know nothing about.
This is quite sim to how some of the farming consolidated comps are runnin.
They appoint an MD an if he does well, he stays, if he dosnt, they go.
Each person is elected by the clients and the board..
Anyway, enough of my new rant, but will keep you updated if you are interested,
All feedback welcome
Cheers
Symon
-
Latest update is that the council are saying that their is no such thing as green belt land and that the plans they have show that my mums place is just in open land that can not be built on....even though we have been here 28yrs and the caravans for 27 yrs and with one being as leaky as an old boot, was replaced with 2 portacabins put together...
As I explained before, I understand that the goal posts have been moved
AND
every councillor has said that it wont be a problem due to the amount of time she has been here
BUT NOW
they are telling her that she needs to have enough animals to set up as a small holding (which already has been setup 28yrs ago and she is still paying for the right and is a registered hatcheries for rearing pheasants and so on.....
Anyway..
Not got a lot of money and being lead up the garden path with this one and would like any help or advice in any way.
Got 2 weeks before they tell us what the next stage is,,,
The village support her but the local borough just keep passing the buck and not giving a s**t..
They told her to apply for planning and then turned her down and said she shouldnt of applied....
??????????????????????????????????????????????
-
Have a chat with your local MP
-
Have spoken to MP as well as some councillors, they say they will help and thjat nothing will come of it....then when something does, theyre nowhere to be found or too busy.....
We dont have the money to be able to go through a lawyer and were told to pay £400 for a planning app that we were told would be refused but had to be done to go through the appeal process!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As of yesterday, my mums partner died, helped along by the stress of this crap......
Now she has head in hands and believes that she is gonna get shafted...................
Can anyone offer advice other than the CAB or MPs
Tried both and nothing has come of it or they are unable to help.......
Cheers
-
You are at the stage of at least needing legal advice I think. You've tried every other avenue. You will get a first half hour free, or perhaps even your Mum could get legal aid. certainly worth phoning a lawyer and asking.
-
Cheers, trying that avenue today..
-
How much land in total does your mum have acreage wise? If she does not have 5 hectares or more can she 'rent' some nearby (within 5 miles).
I've skim read your posts so sorry if you have already put this info in somewhere. The reason I ask is:
The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) order 1995
Part 6
Class A Development on units of 5 hectares or more
Permitted Development
A. The carrying out on agricultural land comprised in an agricultural unit of 5 hectares or more in area of -
(a) works for the erection, extension or alteration of a building; or
(b) any excavation or engineering operations,
which are reasonably necessary for the purpose of agriculture within that unit
Is there a barn/shed needing renovated? She can live on the land in a MOBILE home while this work is being carried out by her for 5 years.
The unit she is living in needs to be mobile (removable from the site in no mare than 2 parts) I think from reading your posts that wasn't the issue, it was the internal height? I remember something about storage of animal feed in the mobile home to allow it to stay there - away to try and find out more for you.
-
Caravans, or indeed any mobile structure, can be positioned anywhere on any type of land if the structure is used for the storage and/or preparation of animal feed.
She may need to have a little tourer caravan on the land to 'live' in (not suggesting she actually does) and store animal feed in the other unit.
You need to look at this site www.fieldtofarm.com and buy the book which is where I have found this information from.
Hope some of this helps.
-
Caravans, or indeed any mobile structure, can be positioned anywhere on any type of land if the structure is used for the storage and/or preparation of animal feed.
Not true for me as I have had to apply for planning permission to keep a caravan for that very reason. Their excuse is because I am a business I need planning. I would be your best friend for ever if you knew of a loophole!! I am in Scotland.>
-
Firstly let your MP know that you are going to go to the press with this. Especially as partner has died due to stress. Try local and even national papers, a lot depends on how you pitch it. The more local support you can get the better, often if it looks like it wont be an easy move they will not take it further as funds are so tight. Make a fuss, dont take no for an answer, hassle your MP and councillors. If one person can do that to your mum, why shouldnt you be able to reciprocate. Not that it helps but am thinking of you.
-
Caravans, or indeed any mobile structure, can be positioned anywhere on any type of land if the structure is used for the storage and/or preparation of animal feed.
Think this only applies if you have the 5 hectares of agricultural land. I'm only starting to learn about this (so pre-armed and all that) for my own situation.
-
Ok thanks :wave:
-
You are at the stage of at least needing legal advice I think. You've tried every other avenue. You will get a first half hour free, or perhaps even your Mum could get legal aid. certainly worth phoning a lawyer and asking.
Citizen's Advice Bureau? They might be able to help.
-
Think they've already tried the CAB with no success.
-
Thanks for all your help again.
A site like this is worth its wait in gold for the information held within its members.
We have got to wait till next week for a councilor to come down and let us know what they are intending on doing...
The land has been run as a small holding for 27yrs and still is and now we've just been told that the outline of our land is different to the one the council has...so now my muyms got the idea that she is going to move the caravan onto the missing land as the council have said it dosnt exist and shge thinks you cant have a problem with something thats not there..
Thisbisnt going to be done until the council give us a decision and is only an option...But the 10hectares comment could be well worth it as she has got 7acre already..
Again...
All comments are welcome and thanks to those who have already..
p.s. The Gypsies have just been granted permission on some land that they had to leave in 2010...when it got to 2010...instead of moving them, it gave full permission..
So now mums said that if it all goes tits up, she's going to leave it to the caravan kings...and then see what an issue it is...
(hope it wont come to that).
-
Latest update is that we have been told no and that they will not give permission for the double unit and some very strange things going on within the local council...
The parish council have backed it, some local councillors have backed it but one person within the planning really doesn't want this to go through and to the point were details have been removed and peoples letters of support have either been refused or lost.
The best one was when they put an on-line form about the planning and said to us that people could put their comments on that.
To be told the following day that the account had been removed and was never reinstated or found again..
The only people who where able to put feedback were the people who opposed.
The comments were that they had tried to resolve all issues but without any help from us and the fact were that they only pointed out problems and were never able to explain how we could resolve or even the details of what they were complaining about....Bloody joke..
Anyway, now we've ended up having to apply for planning twice, without ever being told the issues to be resolved and then wanting us to reapply but still without any direction.
The outcome,
Mums partner has died at the age of 62, we have now got a bad credit rating through trying to sort out the problems, pay the council and missing a payment for other bills.
Looks like were going to have to pull down and start ramping up the small holding and getting it back up to full speed.
Also, due to us loosing are credit rating we have offered an investment opportunity through ebay for all interested and will post a copy on here.......
Business Opportunity and all secured
£15,000 in and £20,000 back in 6months, secured
We are a fully owned small holding worth over £300,000, as of Jan 2011, in North East Lincolnshire.
We are looking at additional finance of £15,000 which will be paid back in full in 6 months with an additional £5000.
We are unable to get bank loan due to the fact that the property is fully owned and no credit cards ever used.
The sheds were rented out to a friends company which was later burgled and then went bust but left a large electricity, credit card, merchants etc etc bills. We had to pay water, rates and elecy but 1month late and effected our credit rating.
The investment will be secured against equity of twice your investment and is negotiable.
Yes, we have been offered the money from finance companies but after paying an admin fee to one, found that a majority of these are either scammers or looking at stupid amounts of interest and with early payment fees.
The reason we are looking for this investment is to develop glass houses(already purchased), build some stables for a livery and gun dog training kennels (this is already running) and plans are available.
The way we can guarantee this is that we first of all give you security through a choice of euity options (at twice your investment) and secondly through own funds being released in 90 days.
The first payment will be made in 90days and will be for half the investment, £7,500
The remainder at £4,000 pm over 2months with £4500 on the last day, as well as an invitation to one hell of an opening party and or to be part of another development project in July/August.
The be all and end all of this is the fact that with an investment of only £15,000 you will make £833pm, every month, over the 6month period.
This is a lot of money but nothing compared to how much the finance companies are trying to rip people off and all down to a one late payment for elecy.
I hope this is of interest and if you would like further information and to discuss further, please feel free to contact us via email or phone 08000 11 30 70
Quick update....
A number of people have asked about making smaller contributions....
This is not a problem as the total amount I need to get is the £15,000 and that does not matter if it is 1 person or 10.
-
oh and by the way, the ebay link, for anybody who may be interested is:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300521112478&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_582wt_1059 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300521112478&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_582wt_1059)
-
Contact Laurence Gould Associates (www.laurencegould.com (http://www.laurencegould.com)) they know their stuff in this area
Good luck!
Pebbles