The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: DartmoorLiz on November 23, 2013, 05:29:58 pm
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Hi, I have a super lleyn ram and a flock of blackface and lleyn ewes. He's been with them for 3 weeks now and all the lleyns have been marked but none of the blackfaces.
Has anyone else had similar experinece?
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Yes we have had the same
Our white shetland ram covered all of our white ewes only, didnt cover any of the coloured ones, the coloured ones were covered by our hampshire down cross charolais
I seem to rememeber reading somewhere that rams prefer ewes of the same face colour?? might be wrong though
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The llyens are maybe at the peak of their fertility and have mobbed the ram , and the bf are maybe not cycling yet although the ram effect should have kicked in by now , i assume the ewes all mix together . Yes rams have a preferance for face colour but sex overrides this , just as well or suffolk rams wouldn't get very far since most females are lighter faced
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Our Charolais ram doesn't care!
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to be honest it is racism - not pc at all :roflanim: :roflanim:
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Yup, rams can be racist. A friend who breeds crossing Blue-faced Leicesters runs them as tup lambs with Swaledale ewes so that he can be certain they will work on their 'target market' :-J before he sells them as proven shearlings. He says all boys prefer girls who remind them of their mums... ::)
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Yep its racism and I'm really miffed :huff: ! I could paint his head black but then he'd be afraid of his own reflection. Maybe I'd be better off whitening the black faces. But seriously...
Thanks everyone. What do I do? Take the lleyn ewes out and risk compromising their productivity because 1, they are being moved while in a delicate condition and 2, they may not have taken yet. The least disturbance to the ewes would be to add another ram (perhaps a bf) but of course, he wont know the lleyn so they'll fight.
Has anyone put a blackface ram to lleyn ewes? Is the result any different from bf ewe to lleyn ram?
I think the black face ewes are cycling but their attempts at :love: with ram are butted away (lucky he's hornless).
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Oh, that's annoying for you. And for the BF girls!
I think I would let Mr White Supremacy complete one cycle and then replace him with a BF tup. Most of your Lleyns will probably hold to the Lleyn :fc:, so you might have none or only a very few BF x Llleyn lambs to contend with.
I also wouldn't be too worried about moving your newly-pregnant :fc: Lleyns if that suits you better. Just keep things calm and steady, they should be fine. Unless it means a trip in a trailer and they're not used to it, I guess. :thinking:
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I agree. I've now started to lamb in two batches (half term and Easter holidays - not one to waste a pair of willing hands!) but the early batch go in with the ewes of the second batch to catch any returners.
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Since you say he's been in for 3wks already then get him out and a new ram in quickly, and get him to a sex therapist :eyelashes:
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:idea:
Line an area with straw bales, blindfold the tup, put him in there with one of the BF's that would like his attentions?
I'm joking. :roflanim: But it would be interesting... :thinking:
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Sally you forgot to get some Barry White on the radio for him to listen too as well!!!
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Sally you forgot to get some Barry White on the radio for him to listen too as well!!!
:D
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I had the same with goats last year, the angora buck I'd hired in wouldn't serve the ginger dairy goat until I penned them together and backed him into a corner with her infront of him, he got the idea and by morning she was pushing him away. :innocent:
This year's is older, smellier and more experienced, I'll let you know next week if the dairy goats return or not!!
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I like the idea of a blindfold 8) and if that doesn't work ... I'm phoning my neighbours who all run blackfaces to see if anyone will rent/sell me a ram.
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Well my black faced Suffolk ram doesn't care either and tupped my Wiltshire within 5mins of being put in! I haven't tried my black welsh with a different breed though but might be interesting.
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Why buy?
I have now discovered that I can hire a good black face ram for £2 per ewe. I did not know it was such a good deal. I'm building up numbers but even so I'll never have a flock big enough to justify buying and if I rent then ram goes home at Christmas so I don't have to feed, vaccinate, worm etc. If he drops dead while working for me then that's the owner's risk (the owner said so) and if there are no fertile rams on the land for most of the year then there's no worrys about who lives with who so I can rest fields better.
I've been such a :dunce: .
It gets better and better because now, discussing my "white supremacist" ram with neighbours, someone wants to hire him! If he condescends to do his job then they are on to a winner (he comes with no guarantees). That means he'll be off the land while young black face has his fun with his rejects so that solves the fighting problem. I needed some young black faces and now it looks like I might get some :excited: .
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last year the lleyn ram we used did the opposite. Within 48 hours he had served all of our wilts horns and not touched the lleyn ewes that belonged to my friend. and were put in as well. all ours lambed bang on time a good 3 weeks before my friend's lleyns. ours were certainly much prettier !
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I'm getting the impression that sheep are a bit like people - normal until you get to know them.
The new ram is doing his thing, albeit once a day and the ewes are getting scarlet bums. Today, "Easter", one of this year's lambs born on easter day, was crying through the gate for him so it looks like she is growing up well. New ram is not that big and as a black face will probably throw singles. :thinking:
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New ram is not that big and as a black face will probably throw singles. :thinking:
is that determined by the ram? or the ewe?
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U
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thats what i thought - so why would a ram throw singles??
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Well unless he got one sperm at a time up there he wouldn't. Though if genetically not prolific (unprolific??) then his daughters may be more likely to have single lambs. It is a relatively heritable trait so worth selecting for twins on a farm level - unless you want single lambs - when its not
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Good point. I was ahead of myself. I was thinking about the prolificacy of his female lambs rather than firing "one at a time" issues.
Alls well that ends well though, the were scanned last week and lots of twins coming out of the black face ewes. I'm trying to build up a flock of twin bearers and it looks like I already have one.
It looks like the original lleyn ram had problems though as most of the lleyn ewes have missed - they were not run with the new ram as I thought they's been jumped on already. I'm lucky in a way that he didn't like the blackface ewes because if he'd jumped on them and missed I would hardly have any lambs coming next year.
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Don't forget that Schmallenberg contracted at the wrong time will raise a ram's temperature and may impair sperm production.
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I have this worry for tupping this year so me and a friend have a deal were we swap rams for after 60 days decreases the odd off us both missing out
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Good idea, can anyone tell me though, are we legal in terms of 6 day standstill to do this? ie. take a trailer to another CPH with an animal, leave it there and take another one back in same said trailer or do you trigger a 6 day standstill?
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I've had pigs picked up and dropped off at the same time.....never had a problem not too sure he is only 1 miles down the road anyway
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I'm not saying what you have done is wrong in a sane and right thinking world I'm just asking does anyone know if its legal or not?
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As far as I am aware, you need to off animals first then on Animals, which can be on the same day. We calf rear and have new calves brought to us and the weaned calves go off in the sane trailer. I think if anyone was to ask the weaned ones go off then the new ones coming in a cleaned trailer. But legally you can do off and in movement on the same day
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Ok Hillveiw thanks for the reply, I realise you have to off animals before bringing on, but how can you swap between two CPHs legally unless the animals were transported in separate directions at the same time by different people and passed on the road going in opposite directions?
Has anyone doing this (swapping animals between two CPHs) had any bother? Sorry to be pedantic HV. but DEFRA are (around here anyway!)
My understanding is that to move those weaned calves off to the holding your new ones came in from on the same transport you would have to break a 6 day standstill either at your end or theirs or your paperwork would have to be dodgy and DEFRA not notice. I would be very happy to be wrong as it would simplify my life! Clearly I could phone DEFRA and check, but I could also ask the puppy and get more sense.
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Legally yes, they would need to go in two trailers and pass on the road. I forgot to say that the calves that come in are from another farm altogether so neither end is breeching 6 day standstill. Unless defra is there at the time they would have no idea who off'ed and on'ed and what time and by what trailer but sheep are different as on the Aml1 forms they ask for times and reg number etc.
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Also forgot to say, I wouldn't called defra and give your details over the phone ( don't give them your cph no) as they will keep an eye on you and have it on record.
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Phone the puppy, his record keeping is a bit lax
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True love xxx
Hope the attachment works!
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Ah! :love: :love: