The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Mel on September 21, 2011, 08:32:01 pm
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:wave: Hi all,
Scaly leg,I have been using Barrier Scaly Leg Spray but to be honest,I am not overly impressed with the results on the one hen of my flock which has it.I purchased some hens today from Fabians,they have the worst scaly leg I have ever seen-their legs are really large and encrusted. Obviously I do have them segregated from all my other birds.
Do you believe the Barrier is used every 5 days shall get their feet back to normal or should I linseed them and so forth.I shall send some pics in tomorrow,the poor birds are so bad they are sitting in the nest boxes and cannot perch-or seemingly do not like to.
I must admit,I did buy them very cheap-(16 RIR x possibly Warrens/Hubbards for £22.50) I think the scaly leg put others off,but I am determined to get them back to normal.They laid half a dozen eggs on the way home!
Your suggestions please
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As a quick fix you cant beat Vaseline . You have to rub it well in and really coat their legs in the stuff. The mite that causes it breathes through it's backside so what your doing is suffocating them. in a few days you will start to see the results, ok the hens will get feathers and sawdust stuck to them for a while , but at least that will drop off soon.
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Years ago a friend of a friend asked if I could re-home some non-laying bantams. Never again :o because they arrived after dark, and when I saw them next morning I was horrified at the state of their legs.
Now - remembering that this was in the past, and I am sure it is not allowed today :D I just dipped the scaly part of the leg/foot in neat paraffin, and it was all cured in a week or two.
I suspect that was why they were not laying but I did find another home for them. :thumbsup:
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I have friends who breed and rear a variety of fowl, mostly rare breed.
They used to buy in some live birds as well as hatching eggs, and found they'd bring in scaly leg from time to time. Paraffin worked they said, but it always seemed to come back.
In the end they got rid of all their birds, burnt every single house, and started up all over again, buying in hatching eggs only and never ever bringing in a live bird. They've been scaly leg free ever since.
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Interesting - In my case none of my own birds picked it up, and I never had a recurrence.
I wonder if their lines were genetically susceptible, and when they started with new good stock the problem was solved ???
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We get the odd one with it but never really bad, touch wood. We douse the affected parts with surgical spirit. Seems to work.
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I have done the vaseline today just for now and I really cannot believe anyone would allow their hens to get like this-They are really terrible,no wonder they are all sitting down and a little unhappy! I have not done the pictures yet,need my OH to hold on to one to do so,but shall update,I personally think it is the worst case you could imagine!!
I really do not know why the RSPCA do not frequent these places,all the birds were left without water,some looked like they were just about to croak it,some were very nice birds,but still,leaving them without water is a no no. Sorry,Nice auction,but as far as animal welfare is Fabian Eagles get the big thumbs down from me. :(
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I asked Victoria Roberts (vet affiliated to the PCGB) this question once and she advised dousing the legs in surgical spirit to kill the mites. Which I have used and it does work well.
Prior to this we used Benzyl Benzoate on a cock we rescued who had very bad scaly leg and it cleared up really well, you wouldn't know to look at him now. The only problem is you can't get it any more, something to do with licences ::)
Just remember whatever you use, the legs are unlikely to look better quickly. If they are as bad as you say the scales will take a while to moult off and the new ones underneath should be better.
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I asked Victoria Roberts (vet affiliated to the PCGB) this question once and she advised dousing the legs in surgical spirit to kill the mites. Which I have used and it does work well.
I read somewhere the other day to dip in surgical spirit and then slap on vaseline. I've never tried it though.
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I asked Victoria Roberts (vet affiliated to the PCGB) this question once and she advised dousing the legs in surgical spirit to kill the mites. Which I have used and it does work well.
I read somewhere the other day to dip in surgical spirit and then slap on vaseline. I've never tried it though.
My warren had this a few weeks ago and this is exactly what I did. The old scales fell off quickly and she was right as rain within a few weeks - none of the others caught it either. Don't know where she got it as I haven't taken any new hens in for more than a year.
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All livestock markets have welfare officers and If anyone has a complaint about the condition of any birds then they should make there views know to the mart. I have stated before that if nobody buyers these substandard birds then the type of people who sell birds like these will maybe learn that this is not on. By buying birds that are diseased or not well all you are doing is perpetuating the practice and nothing will improve. Leghorn I have one question for you did you complain to the mart. The rule of buying at marts is buyer beware, and ask yourself why are these birds so cheep. Allways buy the best you can.
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All livestock markets have welfare officers and If anyone has a complaint about the condition of any birds then they should make there views know to the mart. I have stated before that if nobody buyers these substandard birds then the type of people who sell birds like these will maybe learn that this is not on. By buying birds that are diseased or not well all you are doing is perpetuating the practice and nothing will improve. Leghorn I have one question for you did you complain to the mart. The rule of buying at marts is buyer beware, and ask yourself why are these birds so cheep. Allways buy the best you can.
With all due respect Bigchicken,I for one have only ever purchased some half a dozen times from auction,and it was my 1st time at Fabians. :-\ You can not always see every bird in a cage,especially when they cramp 7 or 8 birds into one. :o The selling of birds like this is rife,I have purchased normally from Melton,but you have to scrutinise every cage and this can be a problem due to the amount of people there.
My other point is that If I did not buy them,they would possibly end up in another auction or go back to where they come from and die an agonising death. :'( At least in my opinion,I can at least do my best for the birds and get them back into good health,is it not a waste of a life otherwise? :thumbsup:
I know that it is a problem,obviously there are always a few good birds at every auction,but there are still cages upon cages of abused birds.When I have bought from Melton,the RSPCA inspectors are there and stop the ill birds from being sold.However,as soon as they are not there for a day,things are back to normal...I am sure I am not the only person to complain but it is obviously overlooked because they are really only in it for the money. >:(
Yes,I have complained to Fabians and am awaiting a response,I only purchased the birds a few days ago and the two which have bad impacted crops were not obvious from outside the cages,only when I put them in their carry cages did I think,mm,that feels a bit large! But what do you do,pull them up at them the very first time you visit their auction-and risk being shown the door so to speak...I tend to stay away from altercations as know from previous experience they can get nasty. :-\
To be honest,I normally breed my own but I am a bit of a softie when it comes to our feathered friends,I really do love birds having 80 hens,30 ducks,6 Geese and a couple of Turkeys now,I did buy them for orders for Christmas,but after chatting with them for the last couple of days,you know,they are really quite beautiful and I do not think I have the heart..yes,you probably think I am pargle,but I'm afraid,I do not think I am going to change now ;D
:chook: :&> :turkey: :pig: :dog:
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I'd have done the same. I got in a state about a Stirling auction a couple of years ago and wrote to them about the state of the birds. Never even got a reply, just a sterotyped acknowledgement >:( >:(
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with the poultry auctions in Scotland it is the same vendors that go round selling there fowl
the animal health people cant intervene till the public complain to them
i can understand that there are people that see a poor animal or bird and just have to care for it although i would not do it :farmer:
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Robert,you know you are absolutely right,one person I saw at Fabians is also an employee of Melton-he takes the cash for the auctioneer! I had to look twice because I thought,I am sure I know him-different outfit,no blue coat etc,when he saw me look at him,he turned the other way!! I am sure these birds may well have already been in Melton.. >:(
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I'm glad you've bought them Leghorn, now they're getting proper care :-*
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Leghorn I appreciate you have a very caring attitude and I can not disagree with anyone who's heart is in the right place, My point is that there are people who target lets say the softer hearted. bringing there rubbish to the sales where they know that there will be childred, townies,the inexperienced and the I,ll save these poor birds, At these sales all lots are sold as seen if you buy birds that are not as you though you saw then that's you responsibility as they were sold as seen. If you have a complant about welfare it must be made before you buy and must be persued vigorously, if there is no independent animal welfare person in attendance which there should be then tell the mart that you will be calling the RSPCA. Let me assure you they will take that very seriously as they have to as they are usually terrified of getting a bad report. Please remember that the mart are acting as the sellers agent and it is the seller who is responsible for the condition of any stock up for sale and usually the mart have no person with the experience to refuse incorrect birds being put up for sale and the office staff have even less. BUYER BEWARE. Dogango your pressure and others complants were useful as Stirling mart no longer sell poultry My advice make a phone call to animal welfare for an officer to be present at the sale
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Leghorn I appreciate you have a very caring attitude and I can not disagree with anyone who's heart is in the right place, My point is that there are people who target lets say the softer hearted. bringing there rubbish to the sales where they know that there will be childred, townies,the inexperienced and the I,ll save these poor birds, At these sales all lots are sold as seen if you buy birds that are not as you though you saw then that's you responsibility as they were sold as seen. If you have a complant about welfare it must be made before you buy and must be persued vigorously, if there is no independent animal welfare person in attendance which there should be then tell the mart that you will be calling the RSPCA. Let me assure you they will take that very seriously as they have to as they are usually terrified of getting a bad report. Please remember that the mart are acting as the sellers agent and it is the seller who is responsible for the condition of any stock up for sale and usually the mart have no person with the experience to refuse incorrect birds being put up for sale and the office staff have even less. BUYER BEWARE. Dogango your pressure and others complants were useful as Stirling mart no longer sell poultry My advice make a phone call to animal welfare for an officer to be present at the sale
OK,I can almost see the point you are making here,however,I am not a child,I do know how auctions run after dealing in Antiques for over 20 years,I do have some insight into how they work.
I cannot however agree with your comments relating to birds or animals as Rubbish.I cannot see any as such regardless of their condition and should not be treated as such.
I did not say the birds were not as I thought they were,I thought I had said precisely about the circumstances when at the auction,as far as I was aware,there were no welfare officials there,I am certain there were not due to some having foamy eyes. Unfortunately,like all auctions,all items are sold as is,whether it is Livestock,poultry,cars or Antiques,and all of them fail to accept liability or responsibility for anything which is sold via them.
My point is that when it comes to animals it is a different issue and they should be held accountable for allowing poor poultry to be sold in their auction,especially when they brag they have been into poultry sales for over 100 years!
I just thought I would add,when you say "usually the mart have no person with experience" is utter piffle because as per fabian Eagles website:
"Fabian Eagle's family has been involved in poultry farming for over a hundred years"
Now you tell me,they have no idea what they are selling! ;)
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Leghorn my comments were a general overview of my thoughts on the welfare of poultry at sales and in no way am I in disagreement with your good intentions they are to be comended. In fact I agree with you 100% about marts or sales being held responsible for animals going through there hands being much more selective in the birds they allow to be sold. This is a country wide issue and should be taken very very seriously so I will repeat if anyone has an issue with animal welfare at a sale contact the animal welfare people and they will do something about it. these sales are carried out under licence which can be revoked. If thee is no animal welfare officer there contact them and ask why! make you concerns known they will act on them. only by having a welfare presence will the people who sell lets say poorer, unwell, ill, less fortunate call it what you will be discourage from attending these sales and it will maybe make them look at there animals welfare in a different more acceptable way.
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I do agree with you Bigchicken,I am just still really very annoyed about the auction itself.There was me thinking,hopefully it would not be like Melton,read up about Fabians and even recommended to them,it is 120 mile round trip for me-I went because I was fed up with the "Ring" which operates at Melton-and there is a ring or shill bidding,dodgy dealers with disgusting poultry to say the least. >:(
I actually went to find some Turkeys and bulk foodstuffs,you know,carrots and the such and also,to see what it was all about.The last time I was at Melton,I went around topping up the water for all of the birds,at Fabians some did not even have a container,let alone any water!! :o
I can assure you there were birds there with what appeared like Myco and definitely Worm ridden to say the least,I bought within the first 20 cages and left as I did actually find it distressing and nobody seemed to be bothered. My Turkeys from there are fine,or at least appear to be,very bright eyed and flighty with shiny coats.I just cannot understand why they would have the ill birds there as well. :'(
I think I am lucky to have just the two out of 16 with impacted crops,more than half have scaly leg from mild to the worst and one is very thin,they are all being wormed and treated starting from when they arrived.Amazingly they are even starting to perch again! :thumbsup:
It would be nice to stop these rogue traders and I could not agree more that this is a major concern and something which must be acted upon.
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I'm up in Scotland and have attended many sales up here and in the north of England I will say that generally there are a minority of poorer birds on sale at them all and I have at times complaned and had birds removed from the sale I,m in two minds am I doing the right thing as the bird or birds in question ended up back with there owner and maybe could have been bought by someone who would give them a proper carring home. Its a dilemma that plagues me.
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I only go to the mart for the rare breed sale as I don't like marts or sales, preferring to buy privately if possible. The last time (and the first) I bought some sheep from the mart at Thainstone 2 out of the three dies and they all had scab which we did treat successfully. It's a good job I always isolate any newbies when they arrive. When at the sales I see plenty of sub standard animals go through for stupid prices and I never cease to be amazed why people pay good money for rubbish. That's as well as pens not having any straw, scouring sheep, dribbling calves, terrified horses and screaming, trembling pigs, and lots of empty water containers. No, if I didn't have to be there I wouldn't go. I can't stay in the poultry room because of the incredible noise and the miserable looking birds, again mostly without food or water. Add to that the noise of the auctioneer and it's bedlam. Having said that a lot of vendors do try to make their animals as comfortable as possible and do present them cleanly and looking healthy, just not enough and the law isn't tight enough. Surely it doesn't have to be like that, with profit coming before welfare. I think if conditions were like that on your holding and you had a visit from animal welfare, you'd be shut down
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I only go to the mart for the rare breed sale as I don't like marts or sales, preferring to buy privately if possible. The last time (and the first) I bought some sheep from the mart at Thainstone 2 out of the three dies and they all had scab which we did treat successfully. It's a good job I always isolate any newbies when they arrive. When at the sales I see plenty of sub standard animals go through for stupid prices and I never cease to be amazed why people pay good money for rubbish. That's as well as pens not having any straw, scouring sheep, dribbling calves, terrified horses and screaming, trembling pigs, and lots of empty water containers. No, if I didn't have to be there I wouldn't go. I can't stay in the poultry room because of the incredible noise and the miserable looking birds, again mostly without food or water. Add to that the noise of the auctioneer and it's bedlam. Having said that a lot of vendors do try to make their animals as comfortable as possible and do present them cleanly and looking healthy, just not enough and the law isn't tight enough. Surely it doesn't have to be like that, with profit coming before welfare. I think if conditions were like that on your holding and you had a visit from animal welfare, you'd be shut down
OMG,I honestly did not realise this occurs even with livestock! it sounds horrifying.And you are right,it is a nightmare with the noise and cramped stifling with pushing and shoving,surely there must be a way of having the laws tightened.I have to agree with you entirely,If we as smallholders kept stock like this,we would be hung out to dry! :o
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I cannot speak for all marts, only the marts up here I have been to.
Primestock marts don't allow straw in pens, they'd never be able to dispose of it. Some marts spread a little sawdust, some allow vendors to spread their own.
The pens should have a water supply but it would only be connected and used if stock had to be penned overnight.
Breeding stock sales are different and you often do see straw for these. Calves ditto.
Store sales are more likely to be without straw.
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from an outsider looking in on the whole auction process from Guinea pigs to horses i can see the knee jerk reaction to these sales the quality of the stock and the condition of the pens
first the quality of the stock the best examples always get a better price
the worst examples there is usually a good reason some one thinking that breeding is just the thing to do and getting over stocked and running out of money to feed them also not enough knowledge about stock keeping
the cost to dispose of the waste material after the sale and the cost to deep clean the premises
the stock should only be in the market for a few hours the onus is on the seller to provide water and feed for long journeys to the market also applies to the buyer and why the movement licence and certificate of competence is being asked for
there always has been neglect and cruelty with stock and always will be despite the intervention of well meaning individuals
any auction is a garrbeled noise with seconds to make that vital decision :farmer: