The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Growing => Identification => Topic started by: Westyardfarm on May 28, 2015, 10:26:36 pm
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Hello, can anyone help identify this plant. Last year we bought a rather neglected 21 acres in Devon. The worst field had just been fenced off for 27 years so had become a jungle of bramble, nettle and dock. We ploughed, limed (10 tons for 4 acres) power harrowed, seeded with "pony paddock" grass and rolled. Grass is coming along nicely but we have 20% of the field with this red coloured plant in amongst the grass. It is probably growing off a small "corm", pale brown and 1cm across when the field was ploughed. Our concern is will it be a problem if we take hay off this field?
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I'm, no expert, but it looks like rosebay willowherb. Liming is supposed to help discourage it, but as it spread so easily both by seed and underground rhizomes it might take a while to get rid of. It is apparently "susceptible to shoot loss from trampling, cutting, burning and grazing" and parts of it are supposed to be edible in the human sense (though perhaps not so much 'palatable), however, it is supposed to be toxic to horses and cattle. Maybe post this anew in the cattle/horse section to see what people think/advise.
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I'd agree it looks like willowherb. I didn't know it ws toxic to cattle or horses, I know my goats love it to death, ei will clear a field by keep eating it down, I've noticed there isn't any in the local sheep fields either, but masses on the outsides.
unfortunately you probaly spread it when ploughing etc, I think the roots are called stolons? and each little bit will grow again.
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I would also agree that it's willow herb. My goats love it too :goat:
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It's certainly edible for humans, and is also a plant which can be used for natural dyeing, I believe.
Have a read about it on Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamerion_angustifolium), it includes this comment When fireweed first emerges in early spring, it can closely resemble several highly toxic members of the lily family
, which may account for the mixed views you find by googling 'is rosebay willowherb toxic to horses' ;)
It was discussed here on TAS (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=21117.0) a couple of years back, in which conversation Rosemary says her ponies love it. AFAIK, none of them has died of poisoning, so I think we can conclude it is not toxic to equines. In the same thread, jaykay says you can make hay for goats of it, so that would all point to it being okay in hay.
It also talks in the Wiki article about it liking disturbed ground - so you probably get a flush of it after ploughing and reseeding, but it probably reduces a bit over time.
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Interesting re the confusion in identification SITN, I must admit I did find it odd that it was 'supposed' (hence my use of the word) to be toxic to horses and cattle when it was okay for humans (I knew it was okay for sheep and goats), you'd think it would be the other way round! I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried eating it and whether or not they like it - got a ton of it in our formerly neglected 'garden'... ::)
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Just a thought about it in hay
depending on when hay is made, it could be either still 'fleshy' and take longer than grass to dry, or ripened to sticks, bit annoying in hay?
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Looks like we'll have to spray as there is bramble and nettle as well. Just have to find something that won't hurt the grass as it is only at the 4-5 leave stage. Thanks for the help in identifying the rose bay willow herb and how much of a problem it is. Doesn't seem too bad but we need to hit the brambles and nettles before they take over as before.
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I don't mind it, lots of flowers and goats love it.
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Repeated topping, and letting stock on to eat the wilted cut material (cattle and sheep would love it) is an alternative to chemicals, if you are environmentally-minded.
If you do use chemicals, do some research before choosing. Some of the ones that target broad-leaved plants (ie., don't kill grass) are extremely persistent, surviving even passage through the guts of horses and ruminants, to then go on and kill the broad-leaved plants in your vegetable garden when you use the manure so created! :o
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Plant in photo looks to have more leaves and narrower ones than the Rosebay Willow Herb we get hereabouts. If it is that, though, and you can cut down the flowering spikes this year you'll go a long way to clearing it for the future.
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To identify it accurately, you need to grow on a little piece, so you can see its eventual height and flowers.
But, if you let willowherb set seed it will quickly colonise any bare earth anywhere the seeds can reach on the wind. I don't know how long its seeds are viable in the ground. It's easy to pull out as its roots are not deep, and don't run like couch.
It's easy to shade it out, or pull it, or cut it, or graze it without resorting to weedkillers. It's a 'first coloniser', and once other plants start to grow around it, it moves on to fresh ground.
The chemical you mean Sally is aminopyralid - hateful stuff and ubiquitous.
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Rose bay willow for me .. it sheds zillions of super lightweight silky seeds from every plant that flowers . cut and graze with sheep knocks it down.
It's a fantastic honey plant though, a lot of my home apiary's quality honey from the 16 hives was willow herb . I found I could charge & get a premium for it .
We had nigh on 12 acres of it within 500 mtrs of the apiary .
It often comes up from horse muck fresh , old or composted, as the horses digestion does not kill it , using the proper 18 day hot composting method will however .
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Just as I'd pressed post I realised what plant it can be , it has hard round pinkish red seed on a sort of nodular spike . It also arrives with horse muck , the seeds explode off the spike when ripe it can grow to about 4feet tall here in the UK in well horse manured soil.
i don't know what it is called in the UK but the Americans call it " Smart weed ".
I hope this link to the American weeds site is allowed , if not can a Mod put it into a click on button please.
http://www.garden.org/weedlibrary/index.php?q=show&id=2393 (http://www.garden.org/weedlibrary/index.php?q=show&id=2393)
This is the scientific name Polygonum pensylvanicum
I think it is also often called knotweed , when we made up the high raised beds we were swamped with it the stalk has a more reddish colour than the pictures I've just seen . An early summer application of Round up sorted it out after two years of treatment.
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Clodopper, were you thinking of Hymalayan (or touch-me- not) balsam? :-\
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Dunno DL .
To me it's a British knot weed p[lain & simple , have a look in Google images under the Latin name of Polygonum pensylvanicum there are some good likenesses.
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Could you mean 'redshank' Cloddopper? Wherever there's some from of cultivation there it tends to be (though I confess to being rather partial to the garden cultivar forms of Persicaria). A google search for Persicaria maculosa will find some pics and there's a good link here: http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/weeds/redshank (http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/weeds/redshank)
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Just noticed a plant in my garden which looks just like the pic. I know it's not Rosebay Willowherb, but grows into something like a small, weedy version of that. It could be called Broad-leaved Willowherb. As I said before, you'll need to grow some on to be sure, especially with so many possibilities.
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Rosebay willow herb is the the big show-offy one. Common willow herb has a smaller less significant flower head.
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Hi WYF, our RB willow herb is growing like crazy, how about a new picture?
Quote - under the Latin name of Polygonum pensylvanicum
thats american? is it over here then? we don't have anything like that up here, just a small lower growing type. (apart from Japanese knotweed of course :( )
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I didn't realise the thread was still running . Alison has been pulling some weeds out the raised beds that mainly contain composted horse muck, coir waste and vermiculite there was plenty of knot weed .
I could have put up some pictures of different stages of my knot weeds growth & also some of the other horse resistant weeds that have come from the same beds .