The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Wen3 on January 12, 2016, 12:02:31 pm
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Hi
We moved into our smallholding in October 2015, it already has a CPH number. My questions are below and any help would be great, sorry if they are stupid questions. We have no livestock on the holding at the moment.
1. Do we need to tell defra the CPH has changed hands?
2. Do we have to get new herd numbers for the livestock or do we keep what they had on the holding before?
3. What paperwork do we need to get pigs onto the holding now?
Thanks in advance and be gentle ????
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1. Yes.
2. Yes, I think so.
3. A movement record in the new online system - again they will provide all the info and a login for you. :)
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In Scotland we spoke to the Local Authority, they transferred the CPH to us and we kept the same flock number as the previous owners, apparently the flock number related to the CPH number. That's for our sheep, for our pigs we are waiting on a call back from Trading Standards as apparently up here they took over pigs a couple of years back.
HTH,
Mickey
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1 yes
2 yes. Flock numbers are specific to you rather than cph which is specific to the address
3 b pex
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1 yes
2 yes. Flock numbers are specific to you rather than cph which is specific to the address
3 b pex
I'm getting confused now (not difficult), the advice we were given was that flock/herd numbers relate to the CPH not the individual. Looking at the gov.uk site also suggests this as it states ... The flock or herd mark makes it easy to trace the holdings the livestock have been moved from.
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1 yes
2 yes. Flock numbers are specific to you rather than cph which is specific to the address
3 b pex
I'm getting confused now (not difficult), the advice we were given was that flock/herd numbers relate to the CPH not the individual. Looking at the gov.uk site also suggests this as it states ... The flock or herd mark makes it easy to trace the holdings the livestock have been moved from.
In England, if the land hasnt been used for livestock for a number of years then the numbers become redundant and you have to get new ones.
My advice would be to ring the local animal health office, they'll direct you as needed.
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Called re the CPH number and was told they will send one out I explained I thought the number went with the land and we had one and she told me no it was to the individual not the land and as I personally had never had one they would send it out.......very confused now (doesn't take a lot) so we will wait and see.
Thanks for your replies I appreciate it.
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In Scotland the CPH goes with the land - that makes sense since it is a County Parish Holding number. If a holding is broken up, one part will get a new CPH.
Sellers should notify RPID of any changes to land ownership etc https://www.ruralpayments.org/publicsite/futures/topics/your-business/land-registration/ (https://www.ruralpayments.org/publicsite/futures/topics/your-business/land-registration/) but I'm not sure they do. The folk we bought from didn't.
Herd / flock numbers are associated with the keeper and / or the land - I have three sheep flock numbers because I have two linked areas of temporary grazing as well as home. Lambs have to be tagged with the flock no of the holding on which they are born (we bring all ewes home to lamb thankfully). However, with the cattle, we only have one herd number, although we have linked temporary grazing for them too. Any calves born in our cattle herd, regardless of where they are born, are tagged with the same herd no.
Confused yet?
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Oh I am so confused you wouldn't believe lol. I then asked if she could send me some information and she just bombarded me with phone number and abbreviations. I thought I had been quite thorough with my investigations but she really threw me saying it wasn't on the land. I will give it a few days and call again I think. She also told me I couldn't talk to the people who actually gave out the CPH numbers as they didn't talk to the public!! Maybe I was just lucky and got a newbie ha ha .
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I take it you aren't in Scotland? ScotGov Rural Payments have a new website and I think it's pretty helpful https://www.ruralpayments.org/publicsite/futures/topics/your-business/new-to-farming/ (https://www.ruralpayments.org/publicsite/futures/topics/your-business/new-to-farming/)
I've also found the guys at our RPID office to be helpful too :thumbsup:
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Thank you Rosemary, we are not in Scotland but Suffolk.
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sheep-and-goat-keepers-register-your-holding-and-flock-or-herd (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sheep-and-goat-keepers-register-your-holding-and-flock-or-herd)
Use this link for all the info.
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I am in Wales and found that Animal Health were very helpful.
They gave me a new CPH number and a herd no for the pigs. It also seems that, here at least, you need the herd no before you get your pigs but you can get sheep and then apply for a flock number.
Seems a bit strange but that's what happened to me anyway.
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Wen,
dont worry. The important thing is that you are being assigned a CPH number. It's up to them wether they feel you need a new one or inherit an existing one. Once you have one then you can move on to the herd and flock numbers. My smallholding was once a pig farm and a poultry farm so will have had numbers but when I phoned up I was issued with new computer generated numbers as my details were submitted to the data base.
The best thing to do is just to phone them and ask as you have done.
Happy smallholding :thumbsup:
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I am in Wales and found that Animal Health were very helpful.
They gave me a new CPH number and a herd no for the pigs. It also seems that, here at least, you need the herd no before you get your pigs but you can get sheep and then apply for a flock number.
Seems a bit strange but that's what happened to me anyway.
I note Animal Health seems to have become the Animal and Plant Health Agency. Or were they that before? Maybe we are never meant to fully know these things.
I think that if you have a herd number before you get your pigs then you can complete the bpex registration in full and be in the system for your first move on.
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Harmony.
I couldnt get a number for pigs until I had got them on my holding but its worth checking with those that make theses decisions.
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When I had to sort mine out I went into the local office and they were really helpful (ours was more tricky because the land had been subdivided but the first owner of the subdivision hadn't wanted a CPH). The staff were great and organised the CPH and told me exactly what to do for the numbers for the pigs and goats.
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Harmony.
I couldnt get a number for pigs until I had got them on my holding but its worth checking with those that make theses decisions.
And I think that was the norm but Bionic says she got hers.
The important thing is to have a cph or you can't receive any stock. You can receive stock without a herd or flock number.
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I will keep you updated with the saga ha ha she did ask how soon I would be getting pigs and I told her I thought about a months time, she didn't seem to think that would be a problem. At the time I wasn't sure when we would get any pigs, but I have now ( I hope) sourced some piglets, which would be ready to come over around March, so I hope to have it all sorted by then. Thanks for you help and replies.
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Just had a phone call and have been given a NEW CPH number.....but I now have one, off to call and get the rest now, happy days