The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: patmci on October 04, 2011, 08:06:32 am
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Hi guys,
A local farmer has offered me 2 tons of apples from his orchard. I dont have that many pigs at the moment. 4 sows 1 boar and 20 weaners. What i am wondering is would it be safe to replace most of the pigs diet with apples and also how long should these apples keep.
Regards Patrick
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Pat,
Sorry but replacing most of their diet would not be good.
Your weaners need protein to grow muscle (ie meat), so need to get this from their pig nuts. The apples would make a good supplement, but not a replacement.
For your sows, we are loking at maintenance and you could get away with maybe 1/3 or even replace one meal a day for a short while, but such a pure alternative (as opposed to say waste fruit and veg with more varied nutrients) is not good long term, and maybe you should take less than two tons, or compost what goes bad before you feed. You may also find that your pigs go squity!
Don't let me put you off feeding these, we are currently feeding small amounts of windfall apples to our sows each day.
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Agree with Oaklands we're replacing about a third of our pigs daily ration with windfall fruit and the remains of the polytunnel & veg garden, they need pig nuts to put on weight and grow. You'll know if you're overding the fruit as they'll have the squits!
HTh
mandy :pig:
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Thanks guys that makes my mind up :)
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GET A CIDER PRESS....... wait till they are almost rotten with juice
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Pigs can get very drunk on apples...........very, very ,drunk.
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But the meat tastes lovely :yum:
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Mine are getting about a quarter of their ration replaced with windfalls at the moment and seems to be doing no harm.
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benkt, how many apples do you give to replace 1/4 of their feed ?
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I was advised that 4 pounds of fruit & veg is about equal to 1 pound of pig nuts :wave:
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Thanks for that HH. Will give it a try, should save me a few pennies over the next few weeks. :wave:
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HH sounds about right - At the moment, I feed half a bucket to each nuts to each of my groups, am and pm. I have been doing 1/4 bucket + 1 bucket of apples as their breakfast and then normal evening meal.
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HI all, as the price of bagged food is expensive I tend to use whatever I can as well as nuts to fill them up, my local pub puts all there vegetable peelings in a bin for me, I also give mine Barley which they love, I do have one question, I live close to Thatchers Cider in a village called Sandford no HOT FUZZ gags please :o and they have something called pumice that the local farmers take away for there cattle do you think a small amount would be OK for pigs.
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Hi Barrett, pumice is fine for the pigs
The veg peelings from your local pub are illegal. You cannot feed anything to pigs that has come from any type of kitchen.
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you can feed veg from a kitchen IF IT HAS A SEPERATE VEG PREPARATION KITCHEN OR AREA :farmer:
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I give waste from my kitchen.
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I've got a funny feeling that wouldn't be enough of a safeguard for animal health to be happy with your set up. :-\
Sorry :-[
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I've got a funny feeling that wouldn't be enough of a safeguard for animal health to be happy with your set up. :-\
Sorry :-[
Really?
you can feed veg from a kitchen IF IT HAS A SEPERATE VEG PREPARATION KITCHEN OR AREA :farmer:
Which is what my workplace has HH ???
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Sorry, didn't mean to offend !
If you & your AHO are happy with the set up that's all that really matters.
What do I know ? :-\
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If you live in England or Wales, it is illegal to feed anything that has been in a kitchen, both commercial and domestic, and whether vegetarian or not. This comes under the Animal by-Products Regulations (2005 in England and 2006 in Wales).
Defra's guide to new pig keepers also states this.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13647-pig-keepers-guide.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13647-pig-keepers-guide.pdf)
As far as I am aware these rules are EU wide, and unless the Scottish Government is interpreting them differently Robert's assertion is not correct, or at best only correct for Scotland..
It is legal to take say a cauliflower from your veg patch, cut off the leaves in your greenhouse, and then feed these to your pigs, as they have not been inside your kitchen. This is not the same as a food prep area of a commercial or domestic kitchen.
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Thank you Robin :-* I was begining to think I had imagined the legislation ;)
And the rules are the same for Scotland (from SEERAD's Guide to Keeping pigs) It is illegal to feed any pig any catering waste (including used cooking oil) from restaurants, kitchens (both household and central), and other catering facilities even if those establishments cater solely for vegetarians.
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Hi guys,
A local farmer has offered me 2 tons of apples from his orchard. I dont have that many pigs at the moment. 4 sows 1 boar and 20 weaners. What i am wondering is would it be safe to replace most of the pigs diet with apples and also how long should these apples keep.
Regards Patrick
Well I would take the 2 ton of apples, slice them and dry them and feed them out at your leisure to your pigs, mixed with their pellets and or grain. I know grain and feed is expensive and it seems such a wast to just compost them or make them in to cider to feed back to he pigs to have them running around in a drunken state. I calit cheap feed.
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s to keeping the apples it depends on the type. Some go very quickly otherd sort of shrivel. Use ones with holes first then dents/bruises then save the OK looking ones till last. Cider is lovely and very easy to make!!..The pigs can still have the squezed fruit but you get the booze!
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thank you oaklands for posting the link to the defra legislation if you click the link and procede to page 10 first para this puts the whole issue to rest YOU CAN FEED VEG FROM DESIGNATED VEG PREP AREAS :farmer:
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Robert, where do you see that ? Have you been drinking :D page 10 - first paragraph refers to walking licences ??? I've read it over and over and the only bit I can see is this on page 11
"It is permissible to source certain types of former foodstuffs (see above), as well as fruit and vegetables, from non-catering premises for feeding to pigs, but this must only be done from those premises that either do not handle materials banned from being fed to pigs, or that have (HACCP) procedures in place to ensure complete separation from prohibited materials, and these procedures have been agreed with the local authority."
and it then goes on to say
"If you are uncertain about what can and cannot be fed to your pigs please contact your local AHVLA Regional Office for further advice. A list of these offices is available on the internet
(http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/contact-us/index.htm (http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/contact-us/index.htm))
If in doubt don’t feed it.
No matter how tempting it may be to feed catering waste food or other types of banned material to your pigs, this is illegal, and the above controls were introduced for a reason. Contaminated waste food can spread viruses and bacteria, and when infected with a disease like Foot and Mouth pigs can quickly infect other animals. Following these requirements will help keep your animals healthy and will reduce the risk of future outbreaks of disease."
So, if you could copy and paste the bit that says you can feed veg from designated veg. prep areas within kitchens I'd be most obliged :-*
Karen
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you have just quoted the para the bit about HACCP :farmer:
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OK so I can see which part you are quoting.
The part being talked about there is veg suppliers, supermarkets and those bakeries that do not do catering, and even in these circumstances the EU insists they are registered with agreed procedures (comes under the The Feed (Hygiene and Enforcement) Regulations 2005 (versions for England, Scotland, NI, and Wales - all say the same) which implements EU Feed hygiene regulation 183/2005)
It is this law that requires HACCP procedures, and registration as a feed business with local authority, who has a statutory duty to ensure safe agreed procedures.
Robert I agree this puts it to rest - if it has agreed procedures with the council, then no problem, if not then not.
W-B - sorry but if your council has not approved, then you cannot feed.
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you have just quoted the para the bit about HACCP :farmer:
Yeah, non-catering Mr Waddell (s'far as I know kitchens are definately catering establishments ::))
Definately time for a new pair of spex ;) :D :D :D :thumbsup:
PS - How's the turkey doing ?
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turkey is doing fine
no glasses are needed
both of you have not read to the end of the para
we are all aware that anything that can be contaminated with meat or meat products are not allowed
BUT I DID NOT WRITE THE LEGISLATION THAT IS QUOTED ONLY READING IT AND INTERPRITING IT :farmer:
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Oh Robert, you're interpreting it wrong ! (Sorry, but you know what I'm like when I think I'm right ::) ;))
I've read to the end of the paragraph 5 or 6 times (will probably be saying it in my sleep ;D)
It's talking about having the HACCP measures in place in NON-CATERING ESTABLISHMENTS (kitchens ARE catering establishments, so even if they have HACCP proceedures in place it's still not allowed)
Places like breweries, vegetable growers/wholesalers, packing plants etc (provided they are registered with the council and follow HACCP guidelines) would be 'allowed' sources as they don't cook anything, but any form of cooking happening on the premises would rule it out.
BUT, like you say - it's not us who make the legislation and it's certainly not up to us to enfore it. It's each and every local animal health officer - so to be 100% sure the best thing to do would be to give them a call :thumbsup:
Karen :wave:
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sorry Karen you are interpreting it wrong the defra publication that oaklands quoted includes PROCEDURES IN PLACE TO ENSURE COMPLETE SEPARATION FROM PROHIBITED MATERIALS
no mention of any type of premises and page 10 is the start of the section on this
no glasses needed on my part no drink consumed either petrol vapour and the bouquet of soil/peat on hot exhaust and very little sleep :farmer:
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Hi guys,
A local farmer has offered me 2 tons of apples from his orchard. I dont have that many pigs at the moment. 4 sows 1 boar and 20 weaners. What i am wondering is would it be safe to replace most of the pigs diet with apples and also how long should these apples keep.
Regards Patrick
Well I would take the 2 ton of apples, slice them and dry them and feed them out at your leisure to your pigs, mixed with their pellets and or grain. I know grain and feed is expensive and it seems such a wast to just compost them or make them in to cider to feed back to he pigs to have them running around in a drunken state. I calit cheap feed.
Blonde i think youve just had a blonde moment, give pigs cider instead of drinking it yourself, dont think so????????????
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good one harry :D :D :farmer: :D :D
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KITCHENS, BAKERIES, SUPERMARKETS, PUBS, CATERING ESTABLISHMENTS, FOOD WASTE, what the hell has this got to do with 2 tons of apples ;)
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evolution harry the apples evolved into this debate if it is an interesting subject it catches the eye if it is not interesting it is read and not replied to :farmer:
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good one harry :D :D :farmer: :D :D
Gets around the HACCP plan anyway If you feed apples dry that have been dried in the sun ;outside, they never have needed to be in the kitchen in the first place. We aren't allowed to feed out of the scrap bucket either, but to dry apples in the sun is fine, as long as they have not hit the kitchen bench or the bread board or any where else in kthe kitchen. There are hefty fines if meat or bone is found in the stomach of kany animal slaughtered. Dont have to make cider inside, make it in the bucket outside your back door then feed to your pigs. when you go to the piggery pick the bucket up on the way through, and put the contents in their trough..... they will be squealling for the stuff!!!!
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no mention of any type of premises
Page 10 "It is illegal to feed any pig any catering waste (including used cooking oil) from restaurants, kitchens (both household and central), and other catering facilities even if those establishments cater solely for vegetarians."
PROCEDURES IN PLACE TO ENSURE COMPLETE SEPARATION FROM PROHIBITED MATERIALS
and the sentance carries on "and these procedures have been agreed with the local authority."
You cannot just select the part of the sentance that you like.
Bottom line is IF it has been agreed wioth the local authority, then fine, if not then not fine.
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how do you dry apples in the sun ....... or make cider in a bucket...cos there a millions of apples about now...... if you lay them in the sun dont they just rot
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how do you dry apples in the sun ....... or make cider in a bucket...cos there a millions of apples about now...... if you lay them in the sun dont they just rot
Harry, Blonde's in Australia and has a very different climate to us!
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how do you dry apples in the sun ....... or make cider in a bucket...cos there a millions of apples about now...... if you lay them in the sun dont they just rot
All fruit ferments, regardless. I owuld apples in a bucket with some water let them ferment and give it to my pigs...I would have several buckets going so I could put it out daily.
the other thing is to just put 2 ton of apples in the pen and see how quickly the pigs get through them..... they will ferment in their pen...... dont worry about that.....
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well i knew aussies could take their drink, but surely keeping pissed pigs taking it a bit too far?
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well i knew aussies could take their drink, but surely keeping pissed pigs taking it a bit too far?
Well why not it is cheap feed...pissed pigs it is ever so funny... They also need some of the normal diet, as well, but use the fermented apples as a daily treat....
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well i knew aussies could take their drink, but surely keeping pissed pigs taking it a bit too far?
Well why not it is cheap feed...pissed pigs it is ever so funny... They also need some of the normal diet, as well, but use the fermented apples as a daily treat....
Pissed up pigs may be funny to some humans but not, I think, very funny for the poor old pigs! I've known people who think it very amusing to get their dog drunk, no fun for the animal who doesn't know what it's doing :(