The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: graham-j on April 19, 2013, 08:38:47 pm
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Hi,I am going to keep some orphaned lambs for the first time this year.I normally buy in Stores later in the year.
How much heat will they need I was going to buy several so they can help keep each other warm,I have a fairly large stable,will I need heat lamps to start with and if so how long.I have a very large kitchen with stone flaw so would bringing them in for the first few days week be a better option.
Thanks Graham.
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Hi Graham they shouldn't need any extra heating now, unless they are newborn and still wet, weak or ill etc. If you have nice straw bedding in the stable they should be fine. Just make sure that they have definitely had plenty of colostrum in their first 24 hours, also worth checking whether their dams had a heptavac, or equivalent booster vaccination prior to lambing.
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Hi,thanks for the reply,are the dams likely to have had a booster injection.If they haven't would it be best not to have them or are there other alternatives.Its a relief not having to worry about heat lamps.
Thanks Graham.
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Hi Graham, its really your decision re vaccination against clostridials and pasturella, a lot of flocks will give their ewes prelambing booster so that the lambs obtain protection through the colostrum. If the ewes were not vaccinated then I personally would be vaccinating the lambs as soon as they were old enough - 3 weeks for their first jab and then a 2nd one 4 weeks afterwards. Some people don't vaccinate, but its certainly not nice to see a clostridial death for which there is no treatment and could maybe have beeb prevented by vaccination - we actually had vaccination failures one year and lost 3 sheep as hoggs, since then have given a 3rd booster at around 6 months after the 2nd one as the lambs immune system is not so well developed when they get the first 2 jabs.
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OK thanks again for the advice.
Graham.
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If it was me I wouldn't bring them in, the weather is warming up now and the stable should be fine. I wouldn't use a heat lamp (but do have one just in case it's needed).
Tips that were passed on to me: good ventilation, fresh water (not too deep), and don't make the straw bed too deep as they can get lost or tangled in it (the bale I had at the time was a very long cut, I have the much shorter cut stuff now).
I'd contact the person you are getting them off re vacs, ask what they have done and what they advise.
:sheep:
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Hi,I have a large field shelter,that I can gate/sheet the front in on would that be better ventilation wise,I can also move some of my other sheep into this field I don't know if it helps them to be around there own kind.
Thanks Graham.
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Mine have a field shelter, last year the bottle fed lambs were in penned sections, and as they grew were allowed out in the day, and put back in at night. I use sheep hurdles for 'gates', good airflow and they can all see each other. I did however board off the lower part (on the outside of the hurdle), just to help give a windbreak for when the wind blew in that direction.
I did all the feeds 'textbook', and they've grown well, size wise, can't tell them from the ones that were with their mums.
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Hi,the field shelter definitely sounds like the place for them to go.I can gate off the front as you have said.How far up the gates did you board off.Do you bucket feed yours.
Are foxes likely to be a problem.
Thanks Graham
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You will need to jag them for colostridials at some point as they wont be getting any passive immunity from the dam. I think a lot of people use lambvac as Heptavac is a bit hard on the lambs.
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Hi Graham,
I always make sure orphan lambs have good shelter with no draughts, if you get any really bad weather make sure the lambs are protected from that as they dont have their mums for warmth. Maybe if you expect a storm the barn is a good place. I tend to reckon on better to be able to sleep at night and not worry knowing they are warm and dry. Vacs. is a really good thing to do, heartbreaking to have to put what is often the most healthy big lamb down because of clost. or tetenus. And incredibly awful way to go. If you do vacs make sure to do the booster.
Watch out for eye infections as well, orbinan ointment for eyes is great available from your vet. Also watch that their droppings are normal and there are no mucusy mouths and noses. separate and treat any that get sick,keeping them warm. Lambs in groups because they are so close and often sharing bottles can spread any stomach upsets or eye problem very quickly. also keep an eye out for stiff joints which can be treated with antibiotics when caught early. Over feeding or variation in strength and warmth of the milk can cause bloat so be careful to keep the mix the same. best of luck
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Hi thanks for all the advice.Would I be better off spending a little bit more and buying in lambs 2 or 3 weeks old,would I be past some of the danger points.How much looking after do they take at this age.I don't currently live at my holding,so would this be a better way to go.
Thanks Graham
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Hi Graham, mine are all (27 of varying ages) pets, so ive tended to molly coddle them feeding them five times per day when very young as it says to on the milk powder bag. However many people if they are a little older feed them just three times a day. It is alot of work, but great fun when all going well. Slightly older lambs if available could be the go, but they would have to be handreared already or you will end up spending HOURS teaching them to drink, and that is no fun! Talk to the person you will get them from see what they think.
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Hi thanks for all the advice.Would I be better off spending a little bit more and buying in lambs 2 or 3 weeks old,would I be past some of the danger points.How much looking after do they take at this age.I don't currently live at my holding,so would this be a better way to go.
Thanks Graham
2-3 weeks old they will probably need 3-4 feeds per day and creep introduced too. If you don't live on your holding maybe orphans isn't the best way forward, how about buying a few store lambs at market to finish yourself?
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Not only that, but at 2-3 weeks old, most of the hard work has been done. I generally either sell them at a few days old, or rear them to fat weight. I guess if I had way too many one year I maybe would sell a batch that are established on the bottle-rack or multi-bucket - but I'd want quite a bit for them as I'd have done quite a bit of work to get them to that stage.
I generally start to wean from 5 or 6 weeks, so long as I can get them to eat creep. I don't stop milk altogether until they're eating at least half-a-pound of creep per head per day - but sometimes you have to let them be hungry in order to push them to take the creep ;), so I generally have them on two bottles a day by 4 weeks old. My milk mix is a 1L/head/day (max) one, so two full 500ml bottles is still a full ration, just they will get hungry between feeds so will start to eat creep, and will munch the hay or grass, whichever they have available.
If they're eating creep, but not enough, and are 5 weeks old or older, I'll reduce the amount of milk to stimulate their appetite for creep. I reduce quantity of milk rather than weaken the mix, so their tummies don't feel full - they often go directly to the creep to fill up after emptying their partial bottle. ;)
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Not only that, but at 2-3 weeks old, most of the hard work has been done. I generally either sell them at a few days old, or rear them to fat weight. I guess if I had way too many one year I maybe would sell a batch that are established on the bottle-rack or multi-bucket - but I'd want quite a bit for them as I'd have done quite a bit of work to get them to that stage.
This - I don't know anybody who would sell after having put all the hard work in, just when they are starting to become a pleasure as opposed to a chore. If you can find somebody, expect to pay a lot more for them.
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Hi Im in New Zealand and just joined . I have noticed everyone talking about creep. What is this? Here we have lamb pellets (higher protein than sheep pellets) and lamb muesli which smells and looks like muesli (soft) with mollasses on it. Is creep similar? And do you feed it with hay if there is not enough grass or the weather is bad to little lambs? The feeds mentioned above you can only give a small amount per lamb or sheep otherwise they would bloat.
Graham, store lambs are alot less work!
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Hi Alicenz :wave:.
'Creep' feed means food for young animals, such as you would feed in a creep area - where they can creep in but their mothers and other larger animals can't. The feeds you describe sound like what we would call creep.
Generally it's pretty expensive, so you use it just when they are very young to tempt them into eating cake. Then switch them to a less expensive feed. ;)
Yes, we feed hay or haylage to sheep when the weather is bad or if they are indoors. Some people never put their bottle-reared lambs on grass, saying that it causes them to bloat, scour, get diseased, etc.
And yes, store lambs are a heck of a lot less work - and less of them should die, too. ;)
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Hi,yes if you see my original post you will notice I all ready buy in store lambs,,I have done this for three years now.
Last year I also bought in some ewe lambs ready to tup this autumn.I have just bought some more land,so am looking to expand my flock.I have spent all my savings on this land so now money is short.
I currently live on my holding,but I do work on it or around it full time,so am there most of the time.
Adding all the information above together I wondered if orphaned lambs could work for me,on my limited budget.
I'm thinking a slightly older lamb 2 or 3 weeks old would be better as I'm not there at night,I realize a lot of the hard work has been done by then so would obviously look to pay more than I would for day olds,but not as much as I would for stores.
Basically if I bought slightly older lambs what would I have to do every day eg how many feedings milk and creep.
What age would be the youngest I should consider bearing in mind I'm not there at night.
Thanks Graham.
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3 week old lambs would need 3 feeds per day roughly, 4 week old lambs 2 feeds, 5 week old 2 feeds of half the amount they have at 4 weeks, and 6 week old lambs just 1 half bottle in the evening with the aim of weaning at the end of 6 weeks latest. Or that's how we've always done it and it's worked for us. Creep topped up twice a day and then put out to grass.
Orphans aren't a cheap option though, each lamb will go through approx £25 of milk powder, say 1 1/2 bags of creep at £8.80 a bag, they need worming, heptavac etc. I worked out last year each lamb we reared cost us £65 including the £25 kill and cut, and we had a good year where nothing went too wrong.
Given that store prices are low at the moment as most people don't have much grass to finish them on, I would probably buy some more stores this year and rear a few orphans next year.
If money is short I would probably not have orphans this year, if you have too much land I would section it off and cut for hay. I think you would be pushed to find orphans for sale much older than 3 weeks as others have said, most of the hard work is done and they become a lot less labour intensive.
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Hi,thanks very much for the advice.I have found the advice rigt through this thread very helpfull.
Thanks Graham.
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Good luck Graham, I am impressed with how helpful people are on this site, and so i dont interrupt the flow of this thread lll start a new one as i have a few questions. Thanks all.
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Hi,yes I've got to say I have been very impressed with the help I have had from this site,not just on this thread but others.
It can be really hard to gain information on a new type of animal you keep.I bought my sheep from a local Sheppard originally knowingly paying a little over the odds,because of the offer of free help and advice,but that hasn't been very forthcoming.
So thanks again for all your help.
Graham.