The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Buffy the eggs layer on August 12, 2012, 08:09:48 am
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Whats the best way to talter train sheep?
I want to get them used to being tied up for foot trimming etc so can you tell me how best to do it. I have a rope halter but I think its a horse one so although its ajustable I think the noseband is a bit big. I also have a small leather head collar which I havent tried but I think it will fit the older ones if not the lambs.
When I got them last week they were loaded using rope halters but the babies hadnt experienced it before and got upset and laid on the floor. Unfortunatly their only experience of a halter as been to bundle them into a trailer and take them to a new home. :( The babies are understandably still very uncertain about us compaired to the older ones so I dont want to try it until they feel a bit more relaxed and when I do I want it to be a calm and positive experience for them.
Any suggestions on what to use and how to train them
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Buffy I am totally new to this so don't take my word as gospel but I explained what I wanted at the agri merchants and they sold me a roap halter. Sold for calves but it is supposed to be for sheep too.
I haven't tried it yet but have read to tie them to a gate for short perids at a time, say 10 mins.
I am sure the experienced sheep members will come along with some wise words shortly
Sally
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Food treats always make and experience for sheep more bearable :sheep: :sheep: Oatcakes are a particular favourite of mine.
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That's what I was going to say. I have been putting the rope halter onto the one of mine I want to show, tying her to the fence pole, sitting with her and feeding her treats :)
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Yes I had planned to make treats a part of the experience but as yet the babies are not too sure about treats. Charlotte has started to come and nibble a sheep nut or two from my hand but not with any great sence of enthusiasm. Alice comes along too now to have a look at what Charlotte is up to but wont eat the nuts and little Nell dosent come at all.
Ideally I wanted them to be confident with coming up to me and so keen on the treats that they didnt mind being handled in exchange for a snack. I will keep tryining with the treats first before I do anything else.
The rope halters tighten when they pull back and this seemed to upset the babies. Would a foal slip be kinder?
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Same as any other animal - pressure and release.
Get them used to the feeling of the halter on their face first; if they like treats, treating them while they wear it without its being connected to anything.
Then clip on a lead rope and gently but firmly apply pressure towards yourself. The instant they move into the pressure, even just relaxing their neck into the pressure, release the pressure. (That's their reward - giving in to the pressure releases the pressure.) Repeat. Repeat repeat repeat. After about 25 repeats over a couple of sessions, very gradually increase the movement you expect before they get the reward.
If they pull back, maintain the pressure but do not increase it. You don't want them frightened or hurt or upset, but they need to know that the only way to release the pressure is to move into it.
The above is why this approach is different to tying them to a fence. The fence can't go with them to maintain but not increase the pressure, so if they pull back from a fence it gets more and more painful and they get more and more upset. They often do learn that the only way to release the pressure is to give into it, yes, (or they may just hurt themselves and/or fling themselves on the ground), but they also learn that the halter is to be feared and avoided.
If they start kicking up / getting upset, go back a stage. Finish each session on a high, even if it's a back to stage 1 high.
Try it. You will be amazed.
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http://www.llugwy-farm.co.uk/ (http://www.llugwy-farm.co.uk/)
You can get the propper sized halters here. Dianne will make them to order for you. :thumbsup:
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Hi Sallyint,
thanks for that,
thats how I had planned to approach it just as you discribe as I have with horses and dogs but I noticed that the rope halter that the breeder used tightened but would have needed you to slip your fingers in to work it slack. Even when the sheep stopped pulling back the rope would have felt tight.
I also felt that a rope would bite in more than the flat webbing of a foal slip so I will have a look at something a bit kinder. As you say it shouldnt be something painful that they fear. I will start with Pipin first I think as she is the most confident.
I think the rope one would be fine for a sheep that had got the hang of it.
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I second what Sallu in the north says about pressure and release. I am sure we have done this topic before, have a look further down the list.
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Buffy, I haven't tried my lambs with a halter, but have found a dog collar helpful if there's 2 of you to hold them in place while you examine feet, bums etc. I would just be patient with the coming for treats thing. My tiny, shy Shetland ewe wouldn't come near us for the first week or so, even when the Dartmoors were nibbling sheep nuts form our hands. She wouldn't come to the trough either. Then one day she was bold enough to join the others at the trough and eventually take a few nuts from our hands. Then she started trotting up to see us and letting us scratch her chin and behind her ears. Now she will come and lie down next to us, and if you scratch her and absentmindedly stop, she nudges you for more!
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Buffy, with the rope halters you can usually make a knot to hold it snug but not tight - and, most importantly, not tightening - on the nose. Since you aren't going to let them pull hard against it, it won't bind on itself so much that you can't undo it! (You would need use a non-binding knot if you were going to tie them to a fence, otherwise you'd never get the thing off.)
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We've been trying to halter train our ram, Elvis. He's not too keen. We were told not to give him treats but I think we might have to resort to this.
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The above is why this approach is different to tying them to a fence. The fence can't go with them to maintain but not increase the pressure, so if they pull back from a fence it gets more and more painful and they get more and more upset. They often do learn that the only way to release the pressure is to give into it, yes, (or they may just hurt themselves and/or fling themselves on the ground), but they also learn that the halter is to be feared and avoided
Obviously no-one would just tie it to the fence, let it panic, hurt itself and throw itself to the ground! You sit with it while it works out that if you pull it gets tighter and if you stop pulling it gets looser - which it is in complete control of.
If it's in panic mode, it will do plenty of bucking around on the end of a person holding the halter too and I'd like to see the controlled pressure/release until it had calmed down a bit.
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Obviously no-one would just tie it to the fence, let it panic, hurt itself and throw itself to the ground!
You wouldn't, and I wouldn't, no. But it is an established and I am afraid very current mode of initial 'training' of foals. It's called 'swinging'. There are still a lot of horse folk who think the first training any foal should get is to be 'swung', and won't entertain any further training until this has been done.
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I thought we were talking about how Buffy could halter train her sheep?
The dreadfulness that goes on in the name of some horse and dog training never ceases to appall me.
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We've been trying to halter train our ram, Elvis. He's not too keen. We were told not to give him treats but I think we might have to resort to this.
Good point. Treats may be a bad idea with a pushy ram.
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The art of halter training is patience. The Halter (not rope as this can burn them) (soft rope type) should be put on the right way up to start with, which allows the halter to release itself.
Start with just putting the halter on & off their face, so that they get used to it. Then stand with them awhile extending the time, each time.
Walking is basically letting them go in front to start with, and if they stop, don't pull them along, either walk backwards a step or two or just push them gently at the base of the tail. It is amazing how quickly they learn how to walk on a harness even a ram.
Happy harness training, it just takes a little time & patience. :-J
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Tazaala,
thanks for the link to the site. I like the idea of a webbing headcollar made to fit sheep. I will give them a call.
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Buffy - they are really good, I especially like the 'universal'. You can put the head collar on but if not clipped to a lead then it's loose over the nose and the lambs are bothered by it at all - as worn by Boyd
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I have ordered some for the ewes but wonder if I should get one for the lambs too. the babies muzzles are so tiny :thinking: .
Charlotte the coloured lamb is comming for a cuddle now each time we go in and can be touched all over so she could be a candidate for the lamb halter once she is ready. Pippin is a shearling and she too likes a full body massage (who wouldnt ;) ) so it would probably be good to try the ewe halter on her.
I plan to teach them to walk towards me in the field in exchange for a reward ( a cuddle or a snack) before I try the halters. The two older ewes will come to the bucket so they should be able to be encouraged to walk forward and I will just take my time with the others and wait until they are comfortable with contact in the field before I try anything else.
I am really looking forward to training them but dont intend to go any faster than their own pace. Will let you know how I get on,
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It sounds like you have the right approach, and yes headcollars or tiny foal slips that don't tighten on the nose are far better for training and also if you want them to stand tied up are safer. The halters you can put on the sheep and leave on for a while without asking them to do anything just so they get used to the feel. I always use treats to train mine, and when they are following can then ask with a little pressure and reward any give, as soon as they understand the pressure/release and happily follow I stop the treats though otherwise they can get a bit too pushy. I generally find once they are comfortable having a fuss from you and eating treats from your hand they will learn halter training extremely quickly, although I have quite a friendly breed anyway. I entered a crossbred lamb into a show class yesterday which was supposed to be judged in the pen, however I had a call from the show a couple of days beforehand that I would need to halter train my ewe lamb as she is MV acc, I thought she might be harder than the pure bred Zwartbles, she has not long been weaned and had not been supplementary fed or handled, however she very quickly took to treats and was happily following me about in no time. So I had her all ready and halter trained for Saturday and they then judged her in the pen anyway, however I am sure the training makes them more confident at a show. I was very pleased with her 2nd place too!! Good luck with yours, halter training them is great fun
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Well the halter modling session with Charlotte and Pipin was fine but Pippin got a bit worried when she pulled back and felt the pressure but soon steddied her self when I asked her to and allowed me to take it off. Bless :D
Everyone comes when called now and follows me in exchange for treats. 3 out of 6 of them will come just for a cuddle and once they are being massaged they are happy to be fully checked over from tip to toe. ;)
The lambs got dirty bottoms when they moved field so I need to dag and crovect them tomorow. :P That will invole taking them into the stable and it would be good to tie them up in order to deal with them but if this is too much too soon for them then we will have to hold them insted.
The webbing halters are great. I got the easifit ewe and lamb sizes as Di recomended these for Ryelands. They are light, fit well and dont pinch or rub if the girls pull back. They are fully adjustable and can be altered free of charge to meet your personal specifications. :thumbsup:
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Hi Buffy - just read your post.
Will show you how to make halters from soft rope when I next see you. Or you can buy lovely soft white ones for about £2 from Hillam Feeds, near S Milford.
Best way to halter train is (as previously mentioned) to tie to something solid for a couple of hours. Give it enough slack so it can sit down and reach its food and water, and it will be quite happy. Do this for 2 or 3 days. By then the animal has learnt that it is pointless fighting the halter, but does not associate you with having made the point, and it will then happily allow you to lead it anywhere.
You can add the odd biscuit somewhere in the training if you want to ensure it has happy memories, but it won't be any better trained. ;D ;D