The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Renewables => Topic started by: Fowgill Farm on March 12, 2014, 03:26:11 pm
-
We have just discovered that a neighbouring land owner has applied to put 2 x 27mtr high wind turbines virtually outside our front door, 367mtrs to be precise to which we strongly object on all counts. it will halve the value of our property and will be unsightly, noisy and out of keeping with the area. We have informed local planning of our objections but is there anything else we can do.
Does anybody have any experience in dealing with this nuisance and how successfully they dealt with it. We have always had trouble with this guy as we own the driveway thro his land and he only has access rights. He doesn't live on the land which total just over 24 acres so they won't spoil his bloody view or affect his property.
I am seething mad :rant:as is OH.
thanks in advance.
mandy :pig:
-
Very difficult situation we have within 1 kilometre, 2 40 acres solar farms. within 500 meters we are having a 35 meter high wind turbine being erected and two more just passed planning. The last one went through with over 50 objectors but unless you are within 200 meters view and noise do not guarantee a sussesful objection.
But we are in Cornwall where alternative power seems to reign supreme.
Good luck and hope you win your objection.
-
They have only applied, so get your formal objection in straight away. Personally I don't mind seeing the odd one or two for a property although I hate too many wind farms on the horizon. It is extremely upsetting if they are in your main view however.
Could you have a meeting with the owner and the planner involved on site and stipulate that although you understand their need for them, could it be agreed that they be located somewhere specific so it doesn't detract from your own property.
I wouldn't fall out with the owner if possible, best to let them see you extremely upset rather than angry, that way they may feel sorry for you rather than thinking they should be defensive.
Good luck :fc: and try not to lose too much sleep over it or give yourself high blood pressure. I'm sure such things must affect people's health. :-[ All the best FF.
-
Are his access rights actually specified? Sometimes if you look in the small print of your contract there are odd clauses that might be relevant. We once lived in a house where we were forbidden to erect a brick kiln!
-
Are his access rights actually specified? Sometimes if you look in the small print of your contract there are odd clauses that might be relevant. We once lived in a house where we were forbidden to erect a brick kiln!
our neighbours deeds forbade them build anything with a foundation but they applied for planning for garden office with toilet etc. when I spoke to the council they weren't interested in the fact it was against the clause in their deeds. they withdrew it in the end but slightly concerned that the council didn't care.
-
Well - he won't get planning permission if you have access rights for starters. How are they to maintain a turbine without access?
-
Oh no, so feel for you :hug:
I'd be seething mad too. Are there any organisations around who help in these type of circumstances ???
Also may be worth getting somebody knowledgeable in land deeds and contracts to look at your rights with the land being rented and rights to access.
Sorry, other than thinking on those lines I wouldn't know what to do but hope you can get it stopped and send any petition this way for signing if it will help.
-
many thanks for all your comments and ideas.
the worst part of this is we didn't know anything about it, in the last week or so people in the village who usually speak or wave to me have blanked me and I didn't know why but now we do as last Wednesday at the parish council meeting it was discussed and because the application is by a power company it just says land near and our farm name so everybody naturally assumed it was us applying and took umbrage, we only found out becoz somebody rang and told OH about it or we wouldn't have known yet. Anyway I sent an e-mail to parish council asking them to clarify thro village website and parish newsletter that we were not involved in any way in this and we were most defo opposing it with every measure available. The parish council are being very helpful and forwarded all the info they have to us. The other next door farmer says he has a report somewhere that there is not enuff wind in the area as he looked into one a few years ago so he says he'll dig that out as ammo for us. What really boils us as well is that certain people who we considered good friends knew about this from the start and chose not to tell us about it.
Will let you know how we get on.
thanks again
mandy :pig:
-
I feel for you like others. We seem to be in a permanent state of siege as one local farmer after another tries to get permission for 200ft turbines. So far nothings happened but surely only a matter of time. A £15000 a year guaranteed income from one field is clearly attractive. I don't want to be opposed to alternative energy in any way but turbines which have the capacity to be quite beautiful in some places (beside Avonmouth docks bristol for example) become a blight destroying people's peace and health in others. Good luck
-
A couple of years ago, farmer tried to get one close to our house - as they are all over Aberdeenshire I thought that was it. Our property was mentioned in the report I believe we were about 200m away ish. It was for
Full Planning Permission for Erection of 800kW Wind Turbine (Hub Height 55.6 Metres, Total Height 79.6 Metres) and associated Access Track and Hard Standing
It was actually refused but I think that's because we have helicopters travelling overhead to the rigs and something to do with radar which wouldn't be your situation (or may be) but you can view everything at
https://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/planning/apps/detail.asp?ref_no=APP/2012/1658 (https://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/planning/apps/detail.asp?ref_no=APP/2012/1658)
in case you can glean any useful bit of info - good luck
-
yes, where we live the flight path and radars have a lot to do with the refusals.
-
Speak with your local county councillor and make sure he/she is aware of your objections - having a councillor on your side often carries weight with the planning committee.
Persuade the Parish Council to object to the plan. Get all of your neighbours to write in to the planning department stating their objections. Speak with the planning department - the application may state which planning officer is dealing with it & they might give an indication of what grounds could be used for refusal.
Does the county council have a track record on refusing such applications - around here, all planning applications can be viewed on line & you may be able to see documentation from other turbine applications and get some ideas on how to get the application refused.
Hope everything works out OK
Sue
-
Thanks Sue,
Parish council already swung into action. Village all on side.
OH is a builder and one of the architects he does a lot of work for has agreed to help us with the planning office side of things and he has contacted the lady in charge of this application. Believe it or not the district council under whose mandate this falls has only ever done one of these before which was very straightforward so they basically don't know what they're doing ??? ::), they're learning as they go!!!
We are also on the flight path of the air ambulance and numerous other commercial helicopters which we are hoping may be our saving grace.
Once again thanks for all the ideas, keep 'em coming.
best Mandy x :pig:
-
I considered a wind turbine. The issues that concerned me were sunlight flashing through the rotor blades and causing a stroboscopic effect which can induce fits apparently. Also the downwind noise as upwind isn't really a problem. So if the prevailing wind is from the West, the turbine needs to be to the East of any housing. And to the North for the sunlight issue.
The Council will not consider any private legal aspects, like restrictive covenants or questionable access because these would have to be tested in law. I wonder if you could sue for loss of value of your property? You are only dealing with an individual, not a giant corporation, so his costs will be the same as yours. Loser pays sometimes as well, but don't count on it.
-
Yes, the stroboscopic effect is called 'shadow flicker', and the developers will have to take that into account for all likely receptors (i.e. you, any horses you have who might be spooked, etc).
You could try contacting somebody like wind watch (https://www.wind-watch.org/) - they'd certainly point you in the right direction?
-
Got any wildlife or interesting/rare flora nearby?
A planned wind-farm up here has moved turbine positions, and reduced turbine numbers, to keep away from a bat nursery, a black grouse lek and some deep peat.
OK, you might not have a lek - but nesting birds - especially if they're on an 'endangered' list should be noted on any objections. If you do have anything like that - contact your local wildlife officer or equiv.
Sue
-
we are currently objecting to a 21m turbine near our village, it's scary the number of applications going in, a large one on a hill was turned down, went to appeal and the inspector supported the objection, I'll find the report and see if I can get it to you, it may give you some tips.
the noise can be horrendous, villagers are up in arms over some local turbines, they can't sleep at night, there has been a formal letter from the Parish council requesting one is shut down untill problems are sorted - suddeny it is being seen to by an engineer!
Trouble is the government is advising Councils to be in favour, so it takes a lot of arguing to change their minds.
Are there trees nearby where bats may be hunting? (in summer of course) they are supposed to do a bat survey but we've been told they just claim there are no bats.
When is the comment deadline?
-
the noise can be horrendous, villagers are up in arms over some local turbines
Ah yes, the train that never passes, the helicopter that never lands.....
-
the noise can be horrendous, villagers are up in arms over some local turbines
Ah yes, the train that never passes, the helicopter that never lands.....
They are saying it sounds like a chinook hovering
-
I was told it sounds like wellies in a tumble drier.
-
If you get close to a big turbine, it's a loud swhooshing noise. Smaller turbines go faster and make more mechanical noise.
We can hear the ones near us sometimes. However if it's windy like today, although they're making a LOAD of noise, the wind whistling in the trees and bushes around the house actually drowns them out!
-
I think Wombles post is a very fair accurate assessment .
The danger of opposing such things like turbines etc. is that if your not careful it will become a monster that takes over your life and hurts your marriage/relationship.
The post about claiming noise irritation .. especially low frequency & low frequency vibrations .. have an open mind ..go and visit several turbines.
The latest types are somewhat much quieter than the ones of even five years ago as the blades are tuned to reduce noise.
You should be able to request info on the noise levels at set distances in set wind conditions & see how that all stack up wrt the supposed effect it might have on people within certain ranges.
One interesting thing I read in one of the numerous engineering mags my wife works with was about a Dutch wind turbine was that, " The more vociferous people became about the noise the more they heard it .. someone managed to get all those complainants hearing tested as part of the investigation to try and get the turbine stopped and dismantled .
Six of the biggest complainers were unable to hear the sound frequency even after half a dozen tests.
That's what I mean by don't let it take over your lives.
Same with those of you who feel they are visual intrusions and monstrosities.. be careful of the words you use incase the very word you use up's the anti a lot and causes you to upset yourselves.
Remember a blind man would be really chuffed to see one of these turbines.
You might also be able to run along the lines of let them have the permission and add in the legally binding rider that should sound surveys prove that the noise /vibrations are above WHO recommended levels that the turbines cease operation immediately and are dismantled .
A couple of years back we stayed within 800 mtrs of some of the biggest wind turbines in Germany ( massive wind farm of around 23 turbines ) in our caravan for four weeks at Phalz , I think they must have each been a good 97 mtr tall .
The wind was good enough to put up our 1.5 mtr tall kite most days & often blew across us from the direction of the turbines .
I'm tone deaf in the upper registers of a woman's voice ( I now have the papers since 2004 to prove it :roflanim: ) due to being a bit too close to a big explosion though tend to be quite sensitive to low frequency noise .
Alison & Munchkin are pitch perfect musicians with first class hearing . None of us was even slightly bothered by any turbine noise as , we just didn't hear any whilst we were there.
We did take a trip out to the nearest turbine and standing 25 mtrs away from the base we could hear & feel a low vibratory whooshing noise every time the blade came to the bottom of the arc similar to swishing a 15 foot long fishing rod but not too hard . At about 200 mtrs even Holly said she couldn't hear much and at 500 mtrs down wind on the track in the wood even she said she couldn't hear anything.
We have visited the local big turbine array on Betws Mountain several times where there are no trees or shrubs to mask or deflect any sound .. At 100 mtrs down wind on a very windy day we could hear the gentle soft whoosh as the blades reached the bottom of the arc.
At 200 mtrs down wind all we could hear was a very faint slow rhythmic shusshing/ moaning noise and at 300 mtrs it was just the wind in our ears though we could hear cars doing a max of around 30 mph on the road 100 mtrs down wind of us ..
-
Yes, we did that before we bought our place, knowing that there were turbines already there to our West, and more planned for North, South and East of us, each 96 to 125 metres tall!
So, we went and stood under one of the type proposed, then walked downwind until we were the same distance away as our house, then watched and listened. Overall, we decided we could live with it if we had to.
Since moving in, I've gradually made my peace with the turbines, though I don't think I'll ever love them! For example, it's a lovely 10K offroad run from our place, up round the ring of turbines and back. Without the turbines being there, there would be no track to run on. Also, they do raise a substantial amount of money each year for the community in the form of community benefit money.
So, I know your case is different FF, since you're having these foisted on you with no choice. However, Cloddopper is right - we make a choice how we're going to approach things, and how much we're going to object. Being 'anti' is fine, but there are a few in our local community who seem to think and talk of little else. Not only does it cloud their judgement, but it also stops me from inviting them round for coffee, as I'm tired of hearing empty whinges about something we cannot change.
-
I live next to a railway line and a bypass. We have investigated noise levels and the WHO (World Health Organisation) have laid down recommendations. The maximum outdoor night noise level recommended is 60dbA, anything above that can cause heart and brain activity leading to disease. Indoors should be no more than 45 dbA
Reading material
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/202na3.pdf (http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/202na3.pdf)
http://www.noisequest.psu.edu/pdfs-documents/whonightnoise.pdf (http://www.noisequest.psu.edu/pdfs-documents/whonightnoise.pdf)
-
The noise aspect doesn't bother us at all, we live 1/2 mile of a busy dual carriageway and if the winds in a certain direction it sounds like its right outside the window! It the aesthetics that bother us, they're just so ugly and out of keeping with the area, we just had a battle with having the new style pylons pushed thro our area and these are not wanted, I know they're not as big as the offshore and mega wind turbines of which we have some 8 miles away from us.
We've discovered some interesting facts as regards the road that they'll be near and apparently they have to be in clear view of traffic and not in an accident black spot, we sadly qualify as there have been numerous incidents along this stretch of carriageway over the years, the air ambulance has in fact landed on the very place they want to put the turbines!
OH is going to take some levels tomorrow with his surveying equipment and we will use these as well.
The application is only at the first stage where they are seeing if they need an Environmental Impact Survey, if they do they are apparently likely to pull out as they're expensive to do so we want the council to say they need one.
Thanks again for all info its all useful.
mandy :pig:
-
NIMBY attitude. Ridiculous. Live and let live or jump on the band waggon. Don't deny someone an income just because you think you own your view. Where does your income come from? Can you afford to do without an extra 15k a year, if so bully for you, not everyone can turn down a guaranteed income for health, social or domestic reasons. EnviroH will ensure noise and shadow flickerare negligible, after that there is nothing else of import. Excepting NIMBYS.
As for house values, what a crock of shtt. A house's vale is determined by the price a buyer is willing to pay and there are plentyof people who will happly live next to turbines. It may limit your market but iit will not reduce the property value. Such sensationalistic claims are invalid and scare mongering by the anti wind lobby. Pathetic.
-
I don't think a windturbine would put me off from buying a house but the huge electric pylons definitely would put me off as they have allsorts of bad health links to them - proven or otherwise. we have quite a lot of turbines around here now.
of course birds etc do get hit and injured, the same goes for underwater tide thingys, the knarl seals etc.
-
I love wind turbines, around here its flat so there is quite a few, the local animal shelter has had a fairly big one for the last 25 years and managed to run large horse shows with ponies going right past it. As to the really big ones out of interest I went and stood right underneath one and really I thought the noise was minimal.
Most of what we call the countryside is manmade, I come from a mining area so I grew up with the pit head and the slag heap in the distance and the clank of coal trains at night. At the base of these wind turbines is a small building, when better technology comes a long the turbines will be recycled and perhaps all will be left is the box, just like the odd pill box that stands in the fields now, a remnant of past needed technology. Old windmills, water mills, quarries, steam trains in their time we all eyesores but weather and the nostalgia has made them vintage and picturesque.
I do not know if wind technology is a viable replace for fossil fuels, but if you can not breath because of the stuff we are pumping to the air the lack of the view and noise will be the last of our problems.
-
I can totally empathise with people who object to turbines because of the view. If thats one of the reasons you live somewhere you would naturally object to one on your doorstep, especially as in this case, the people who want the turbine dont actually live nearby and therefore have to see it.
Personally, if i could afford one i'd have my own. They are everywhere here and they don't bother me, neither does the noise. But i think it really is personel preference.