The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Greenerlife on May 05, 2010, 10:15:00 am
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Really upset as my four newly arrived Berkshire weaners got attacked yesterday afternoon by my next door neighbour's Alsatian dog. He's managed to bite 3 out of the 4 and one of them has lots and lots of tears in the skin over his "shoulders" and one has his tage torn. Have applied antisceptic and informed the vet, who has given advice and I just have to keep an eye on any infection - but what would you people do about the neighbour and her dog? She is very apologetic and almost as distraught as me - the dog is usually docile. Anybody out there with any experience? I might have to post this on the dog part of the forum too.
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That's awful. Why was the dog anywhere near the pigs and why was it not on its lead and is there any likliehood of it happening again if it is a neighbour? I hope they all recover soon.
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It escaped from it's newly fenced garden and onto my plot. Went straight through the electric fence (and out again) with no feeling whatsoever, I presume it's because it has particularly thick fur. Caught it in the act and took it back to its owner.
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Well the owner has a responsibility to ensure that her animals are secure and unable to cause damage I believe?
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Thats horrible, I do sympathise, my own gsd dog attacked my sheep (out of character and unprovoked obviously) after spending years happily side by side with them, we had her pts, as she seemed to have snapped. (she also went for a person the same week).
trouble is once they've done it once they re-offend, unless you have fantastic fencing, it could well come back.
The dog I have now wants to chase everything, pigs sheep, chickens, ducks. We have run a tape of electric fencing about 20" high all around all our fields, dog touched it once, never again! its the only thing thats worked for us.
As for the piglet, they can heal incredibly well, purple spray is amazing, but just keep an eye they dont get infected in which case get them anti-biotics asap.
Legally you could have shot the dog, maybe next time eh!
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Warn the dog owner that if it happens again you will insist on the dog being pts.
It is legally down to the owner to keep his dog enclosed not for YOU to keep it off your land.
This time the neighbour has to fork out for any vets bills from the attack.
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Your neigbour sounds like a reasonable human being, given she was almost as upset as you - and if the dog is normally docile is it possible that it's gone through the fence got a fright and just freaked out a bit ? My GSD loves our pigs and friends visit with their dogs regularly without incident, so I think it's possible for them to be friends ;D - if you and your neigbour are on good terms I'd be tempted to suggest a wee socialisation exercise. Get both of you in the field with the pigs and the dog on a lead, sit down and let the pigs come to the dog (watch it's not getting stressed though) spend maybe 30 minutes just chilling and letting the dog and pigs get used to each other and see how it goes from there. Personally I'd want to try and live in peace and harmony ;) not just the animals, but you and your neigbour too (nothing like a wee dispute to ruin good relationships :-[) that way you don't have to worry about fencing and fort knox style security, but you'll know after 30 minutes if that's ever likely to happen. Just my thoughts, but surely worth a try ?
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Now that is upsetting. But it would be worse if your neighbour was ignorant. What I would do is tell the neighbour that you have been advised that she is responsible and should pay the vet bills, but you're not really interested in that.
All you want is not for it to happen again, and maybe she would look into leashing her dog, or fencing it in, to stop a repeat performance which would be more than you could bear.
In the meantime, your weaners will grow, and I have found that dogs are not as confident when the 'pick on someone your own size' argument is put to them.
Good Luck!
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For now, a secondary electric fence at various heights, you need the alsation to put its nose on the electric . (If you find it on your property make sure its nose goes on the fence). I doubt it will ever come back again.
(ps my own poor dog once accidentally touched the fence with her nose. It hurt, she got over it she gives it a lot of respect, and I always turn it off when she is around).
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What a shame!
Your neighbour sounds responsible and reasonable and I am sure you will sort it out so it doesn't happen again. And yes I would ask her to pay the vets bills. Sounds like she would be happy to do that. As others have said best to sort it out amicably as it is a nightmare falling out with neighbours.
Authority for the proposition that she is liable is to be found at section 3 of the Animals Act
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1971/cukpga_19710022_en_1#pb1-l1g3
if anyone is interested! ;)
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To save trawling through all that -
Animals Act 1971
1971 CHAPTER 22
Contents
3 Liability for injury done by dogs to livestock
Where a dog causes damage by killing or injuring livestock, any person who is a keeper of the dog is liable for the damage, except as otherwise provided by this Act.
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Sadly it has just happened again! :-[ Heard the dog - saw it from the window barking at my pigs from inside the electric fence.
Pigs are too scared to come out of their arc - so I have left them to it for the moment - will check in an hour or so to see if there is any damage. Stuck my head in the arc and they look undamaged - so fingers crossed!
Have informed the dog owner and at least I have got them to agree to having the dog castrated so hopefully that will calm him down and stop him "doing a runner" all the time.
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An uncontrolled german shepherd is a danger to everything, animals and humans alike. I would report this dog to your local dog warden.
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Oh dear Greenerlife, I do hope your piggies are ok.
Lets hope getting the dog 'fixed' will cure his love of roaming (especially to your field) I know I was keen to give him the benefit of the doubt (probably because I just couldn't imagine my german shepherd going for anything !) but obviously it's not going to be as simple as that :( Hope it works out ok :-*
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Castr
Sadly it has just happened again! :-[ Heard the dog - saw it from the window barking at my pigs from inside the electric fence.
Pigs are too scared to come out of their arc - so I have left them to it for the moment - will check in an hour or so to see if there is any damage. Stuck my head in the arc and they look undamaged - so fingers crossed!
Have informed the dog owner and at least I have got them to agree to having the dog castrated so hopefully that will calm him down and stop him "doing a runner" all the time.
Castration won't do anything at all. He needs to be kept under strict control at all times. Have you copied and printed the clause from the Act? Give her that.
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If your neighbour cannot keep this dog under control then you need to take action. You have given it the benefit of the doubt but it now appears hell bent on worrying your pigs. I love dogs but I could not put up with this and your pigs have a right to Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease and Freedom from Fear and Distress.
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I dont understand your neighbour. Her dog has attacked you animals on your property. Why has she not got him tied up if she cant keep him in any other way?
Its little use her saying he has never done it before, or tying him up is cruel. Its too late when he has been shot by a local farmer for sheep worrying, or even caused an accident by escaping. She is not being kind, she is sticking her head in the sand.
Be firm with her, next time it could be you he attacks.!!!
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Next time you see the said dog on your property execise your right and shoot it!!!!!!!!!! Castrating the dog will not stop its stock worrying
People who cannot control their dogs around livestock are a liability to everyone, next time it could be you! >:(
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I'm with you Jez but no doubt she said sorry Now a days it is said with no meaning at all it just comes out the mouth thinking its OK I've apologised.True story Jez shopping in Grandways a then supermarket in Grimsby. This female pushed her trolley into my ankle.OH I'm sorry and went past.In another isle she did it again, Only this time I back heeled her trolley and it struck her in the enormous gut I turned and smiled politely and said Oh I am sorry I didn't see you there.She made a comment that you will have to guess Yes thats right put GR to shame ??? ;D :farmer:
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I am now officially distraught. Last night the newly castrated dog got out again and severely attacked three of my four piggies. Now that they are considerably bigger, I didn't think he'd have a go - but he did. One is badly cut, the others seem only minorly scratched. Have managed to catch the worst off pig and administer antiseptic and am awaiting the vet now. :'(
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I am sorry to hear this, I hope your pigs are going to be ok. You must seriously now consider what steps you going to take now to put an end to this.
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I agree with James, it was fair to give the dog a second chance - but he's used that plus more :( it's time to get tough.
If your neighbour can't keep the dog contained within their own garden it's posing a risk to all livestock. You are being very understanding - but other farmers may not be so sympathetic and may decide to excercise their right to shoot the dog if it worries their stock. It might be worth saying this to your neighbour, hopefully they will get the message and you'll be able to keep the relationship on good terms, if not maybe it's worth getting in touch with the local police or animal health officer to find out what your next step should be.
Good luck and I hope your pigs are okay (I'd also be expecting the neighbour to pay the vet's bill this time round, but maybe that's just me ;))
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So sorry to hear the pigs have been attacked again. I don't think you reported the other attacks to the police? Report the owner now, mentioning the other attacks. The police will warn her to keep the dog under control - next time it will have to be PTS. Castrated or not, this does not make a difference once a dog starts to attack livestock.
Your pigs have a right to be safe in their own pen - you have given the owner enough chances to contain her dog. Surely she must realise there is no way this dog can be out in a garden unsupervised even for a minute? She is responsible for the dogs actions. I would also give her all the bills from the vet, and ask that she reimuburse you, its the least she can do.
I have dogs myself, two of which ended up getting shot for going among a farmers sheep. They had been with me 8 years amongst our livestock and never bothered. I told the farmer had he not shot them, they would have been PTS by my vet. Once a dog starts to attack livestock, no matter how much I cared for it, thats it.
If this dog is not stopped now, and does it again - what if you are not there to stop it? It could kill the pigs. I am afraid that the feelings of the neighbour, or indeed the dog, have to take second place to the welfare of your livestock.
I do hope things can be sorted to keep your pigs safe.
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Really sorry for you and your poor pigs. "The dog got out again" is just not good enough. It is now officially a dangerous dog so unless they want it to end up being put down THEY have to ensure it cannot and does not get out of THEIR property. It has demonstrated that it cannot be trusted with livestock. I think you have been more than patient with them but if it was me I would be getting the law involved and if it was my dog I would be mortified and building a 12 foot fence so it could not get out as well as offering to cover your vet bills. Sincerely hope something gets sorted before things go beyond the point of no return and you loose a pig or the dog has to be put down.
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If all else fails, tell your neighbour you are borrowing a large, dangeorus boar with huge tusks, known to be a dog killer. They do exist!!!! If she loves her dog she will keep him tied up rather than risk him being speared and gutted on the boars tusks.
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I SAID IN MY LAST POST IT WOULD DO IT AGAIN AND IT HAS. IT NEEDS PUT DOWN IT COULD BE A KID THE NEXT TIME.
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You are right Charlie They "They?" tell me a dog is allowed one bite not of me it isn't.The last cur's head was spread over an acre of corn
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Charlie I could not disagree more. From reading this post I am of the understanding that the owner of the dog is to blame. If anyone needs putting down it is them.
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I agree with lunanlife to an extent - it is always the dog that gets the blame for a bad owner. But she MUST be made to pay the vet bills and MUST keep the dog under control. It WILL do it again if allowed to.
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Does it matter who is at fault - the piglets are being terrorised. What happens if the dog kills one? What if the next victim is a child? The owner must be made to realise she has to keep her dog under control, or failing that the police must be made aware so that the dog can be dealt with properly.
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Yes lunanlife the main culprit in all of this is the owner.They have spoiled a good g s d by letting it roam.But the dog cant now never be trusted.So the dog should be put to sleep. And let hope these hard hard lesson be taken on bored. And lets face it its no life for a dog to be on a lead all it life .
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If i was you i would have shot the dog by now! these owners of dog like these need to be held account for their actions. it makes me really mad when people dont control their pets i had problems with dog not to long again and my trusty .22 had to come out of its hiding place. i must add i did not shoot the dog just waved it at the dogs owner lol not see dog or owner since.
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I have a GSD and was horrified to read this and the lack of responsibility of the owner, I am afraid I don't care how sweet the owner is she obviously has no respect for animals including her own as she is putting them all at risk. GSD are highly intelligent and are very habit forming (except mine who can hardly remember where his food bowl is) they need to be controlled and taught thing which obviously she is incapable of. I would report her to the local animal welfare/dog warden and also take all vets bills to her to pay. 1 attackis a fluke serveral is irresponsible and obviously her fencing was not erected to keep a GSD in.
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Why can't the dog be retrained? Dogs are easier to rehabilitate than some people. Why don't we put people to sleep who attack others, we wouldn't have overcrowded prisons! If it was this persons child who was repeatedly attacking the pigs would we also put the child to sleep!
It is a problem nation wide. There are to many people who have animals who can't take care of them. This is one case where the owner of the dog can't be bothered to sort out her dog. Welfare of animal laws are far to relaxed. In my opinion if you are not there to watch over and be in charge of your animals for the best part of the day then you shouldn't have them.
Now on the other hand if nothing was being done and the dog was repeatedly attacking my livestock and a real danger to them then I probably would also shoot it. In that respect it is a matter of protecting my own.
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This is a police matter and needs to be dealt with as fast as possible. The dog has got away with it and will carry on attacking the pigs. This person is not fit to be a German Shepherd owner. As others have said, what will the dog attack next. >:( >:( >:(
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There will be oceans of tears and blood when it attacks a child and all the dog lovers will be making excuses like its the owners fault IT IS NOT THE OWNERS FAULT It's the dogs fault. Shoot the bloody thing NOW before the tragedy happens ??? >:( :farmer: