Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)  (Read 3458 times)

heyhay1984

  • Joined Jun 2014
Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« on: April 01, 2017, 09:33:23 am »
So I have a grant for a trailer (yay!) so I am trying to do the calculations.

The tow vehicle is a shogun sport, vehicle weight is 1840kg, "braked towing weight" (is that the MAM?) is 2800kg. Struggling to find figures in terms that match those used on the calculation websites!

I don't have a B+E licence so I am assuming this means I can only run a 750kg unbraked trailer with this vehicle (taking me to 3550 kg combined MAM? Is that right?) So I would be ok under "drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM"

That would actually be ok as 90% of the time it'll be sheep or pigs to slaughter or shows but wondered if there was scope within these limits to go for "tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg" as I could get then look at getting something that would accommodate one of the shetland ponies, maybe.

I am thinking not, if the MAM IS 2800kg, but if the 1840kg figure is the one I need to use that'll leave me with 1660 kg for the trailer + load? It's so confusing! Or have I got totally the wrong values in the first place?


Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2017, 10:16:12 am »
I agree - the whole thing is stupidly confusing!

The first thing to do is to find out definitively what your Shogun can tow. Have a look for the rating plate (mine was next to one of the door latches). It will look like this:



And instructions on how to understand it are here.

Then let's see if we can figure this out together!!  :thumbsup:

I suspect you're going to run into the same problem I had with our Landy though, i.e. even though what I wanted to tow didn't put me over 3500kg total train weight, the  *Maximum Authorised* Mass did. (As I understand it, the MAM is basically the all up weight of the car when fully loaded.) Still, see if you can find the rating plate, and we can go from there?
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Creagan

  • Joined Jun 2013
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2017, 01:16:35 pm »
You can tow up to 3500kg so long as the trailer is no more than 50% of that.
So for your Shogun, you can tow up to 1660kg. This will have to be braked as it is over the 750kg limit.

heyhay1984

  • Joined Jun 2014
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2017, 02:02:50 pm »
Thanks both- several brains definitely better than my limited one on this!

So the plate is stamped onto metal and is right at the back of the engine bay but there are two numbers 2510kg and 5380kg

The manual says the kerb weight is 1830kg and the max gross vehicle weight is 2510kg (so at least those numbers match up!)

So it looks like I could tow (3500 minus 2510) = 990kg on that basis? I reckon the MAM is the same as the max gross vehicle weight?

990kg isn't going to get me any further than having an unbraked 750kg if I've got it right (but would be very very happy to be wrong!)

Creagan

  • Joined Jun 2013
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2017, 02:15:57 pm »
Ah yes the 3500kg total might take the towing car as being at max weight, not kerb weight, so my calculation of 1660 is probaboy incorrect.
What you want is a vehicle which is as close as possible to 1750kg laden weight and that gives you the biggest possible trailer.
I'm a bit rusty on all this, there's good info on the NTTA website.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2017, 06:21:50 pm »
So it looks like I could tow (3500 minus 2510) = 990kg on that basis? I reckon the MAM is the same as the max gross vehicle weight?

990kg isn't going to get me any further than having an unbraked 750kg if I've got it right (but would be very very happy to be wrong!)

Yes, I believe that is correct (unfortunately!). Also, a braked trailer will weigh quite a bit more than an unbraked one to start with, and will also cost significantly more.

Do have a think about doing your B+E test though. I did it last year, and it wasn't all that difficult. The thing is, if you're young enough  ;) to need it in the first place, you're also young enough to have many years of driving ahead of you. So, if you're into horses and ponies, I reckon the test has to be a worthwhile investment in the long run.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

farmers wife

  • Joined Jul 2009
  • SE Wales
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2017, 06:39:28 pm »
A shogan will pull plenty of weight.  Plenty of farmers use them think your over thinking on this one.  I drive a Skoda Octavia with unbraked small trailer with 8 sheep.  Its not going to be more than a caravan is it and a shogan will pull a long heavy double axle van.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2017, 07:03:40 pm »
FW, it's not what a Shogun can tow that matters here; it's what heyhay is legally allowed to tow.

Sadly anybody driving a Shogun who passed their main driving test after 1997 needs to sit an additional trailer test if they want to tow anything over 990kg (we think!!).
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

oor wullie

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Strathnairn
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2017, 07:36:51 am »
Also if you are towing a 990kg trailer it will have to be replated to 990kg (I think). 
On a cat B license you have to work to MAM so even if, for example, your 1500kg trailer is empty and only actually weighs 400kg you will still be over the limit.
This is different from a cat B +E where you can work to actual weight (eg my Hilux can tow 2800kg but I am ok to tow my 3500kg trailer as long as the actual weight is no more than 2800kg).

As others have suggested either stick to an unbraked trailer or do your B+E test.

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2017, 07:59:12 pm »
Also if you are towing a 990kg trailer it will have to be replated to 990kg (I think). 
On a cat B license you have to work to MAM so even if, for example, your 1500kg trailer is empty and only actually weighs 400kg you will still be over the limit.
This is different from a cat B +E where you can work to actual weight (eg my Hilux can tow 2800kg but I am ok to tow my 3500kg trailer as long as the actual weight is no more than 2800kg).

As others have suggested either stick to an unbraked trailer or do your B+E test.

You're correct here OW.
The point is that without your B+E test it isn't the weight that you are carrying that is the relevant feature but the max weight that the trailer CAN carry - whether you are carrying that weight or not.
So an unbraked 750kg trailer can only (legally) carry up to 750kg and that is within your limit. I don't believe you can routinely buy a 990kg trailer, so assuming the next weight up is a 1tonne trailer then you cannot tow it legally. This is because even if the trailer were empty its carrying capacity is 1 tonne and that above your limit. 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 08:10:52 pm by landroverroy »
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2017, 10:08:05 pm »
Yes, as OW says, you'd have to get a dealer to re-plate it to 990kg for you.......
........ which poses a question for me:

I can tow my big 500kg trailer behind the Landy with two tonnes of load on it. However, my wee Skoda can only tow a tonne maximum.

That means that I could legally tow it behind the car with 500kg of load in it...... but would I have to re-plate it every time I changed vehicles then, or what?  ???
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

greenbeast

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2017, 08:40:34 am »
so i should just replate my trailer to keep me legal and put whatever i like in it weight wise   ;) ;)

marka

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Moray, NE Scotland
  • www.facebook.com/WellsideCroft
    • Facebook
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2017, 09:34:48 am »

Can you not just buy a van ?
Castlemilk Moorit sheep and Belted Galloway cattle, plus other hangers on.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2017, 09:39:44 am »
so i should just replate my trailer to keep me legal and put whatever i like in it weight wise   ;) ;)

Sure! As long as the police don't send you to the weighbridge, you'll be fine!   ;)

Somebody we know was pulled over for having a trailer brake light out, but the police then looked at what was in the trailer and escorted him straight to the weighbridge. His trailer apparently weighed in at more than twice its rated load. He was made to unload half of it at the weighbridge site, and then come back for it later. I suspect he also received a fat fine and maybe some points, but I'm not sure. He certainly should have done!!
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

big soft moose

  • Joined Oct 2016
Re: Towing with no B+E (again, I know, sorry)
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2017, 11:10:15 am »
Best bet is to do your trailer ticket ...  at about 750 it isn't cheap , but  by the time you've paid to have your trailer replated, faffed about, got fined etc it could be the cheaper option

 

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