[juliag]

 Mole Valley farmers have Organic compost, (large bags the same size as large compost bags) on offer for £1.98 a bag instead of £6.99!!!!!! Going tomorrow to stock up with as much as my 4x4 will take, they also have organic suttons seeds for veg and herbs at 20% below the retail price. If we get organic seeds and organic compost and plant in pots can I sell the resulting produce at my gate as organic? 

[rustyme]

only if you are registered ORGANIC with the soil association !!!! Otherwise you may end up in court!!! the word organic is a patented word  Bl**dy stupid I know, but thats the way it is  sadly . You can say 'produced without chemicals' ...etc . To register is a bit of a pain in the bum , as you have to be chemical free for at least 2 years , your soil has to be tested and there are lots of forms to fill in , AND then there is the cost !!!!! You would have to sell a hell of a lot of stuff to cover the cost .  I have put on a couple of links that may be of interest to you ?

http://www.molesseeds.co.uk/ 
 http://www.soilassociation.org/certification

cheers

Russ

[doganjo]

I don't know why they use the word organic anyway - all that means is that it comes from living plants or animals.  The meaning of the word has been changed to not using artificial chemicals in the growing of plants and animals for food and other products.
I think a better phrase is 'contaminant free'

[juliag]

Thankyou Russ thats really helpful, I certainly don't   fancy a little trip to court to try to defend myself over something I know nothing about  Certainly would not bother waiting for 2 years to get organic status on my land, my kids dont care what there potatoes are grown in as long as the chips taste good!! 

[Rosemary]

I think its about £500 per year to register. We had a woman from the Soil Associiation along to one of our smallholder meetings and she was absolutely adamant that you can't use the word "organic" unless you are certified. One of the members asked if she could say her eggs were from hens fed on organic food - that was a complete no-no.

[northfifeduckling]

Thanks, Russ andRosemary, I had no idea that this applies to the small scale as well. At least free range is not patented (yet)...

[rustyme]

it is a sad thing really , but it applies to the small scale person more than the big guys. The big guys can pay solicitors to work out what they can and can't say in adverts . The government are rapidly making it impossible for the small scale person to get by at all . Each new law always has more implications than people realize, if not now then a few years down the road .' Free range ' is ok ( I think ?) to use at the moment , but only if you COMPLY with all the GOVERNMENT set rules. But it was ok to use ORGANIC too a few years ago . So maybe it is just a matter of time???  I can understand that the use of a particular name with regard to a particular item ( ie CLARKS shoes) could be patented , but how can anyone claim a generic word as theirs ?  What a crazy world it has become. I am just waiting for a tax on speach !!!!! it has to come at some time ...

cheers
Russ

[northfifeduckling]

I'm about to start a food co-op with a friend for our eggs. I'll chat to the lady who helps with organising ventures like this and let you know what she says. Maybe it's ok to say "organically fed" or fed with GM free feed, as we can bl...prove what we feed them.
I am so glad that at least where we are is a grass root movement emerging now which supports local food and small scale food production.

[Rosemary]

I don't think only the Government is at fault over the "organic " certification. The criteria are very strict - far more strict than I would want or be able to adhere to personally but I want the assurance as a consumer that things are what they say on the tin. Organic has to mean something (in this context of certification) and therefore  producers have to comply otherwise consumers get let down. We, as consumers, often complain that labelling is misleading so we can't also complain if certifying, and therefore labelling, bodies insist on strict standards.

[rustyme]

no problem with that really .... ie 'Grown to Soil Association standards'....you then stick to/abide by, the certified rules.  But the word  Organic , is what I would term a free word . As for government  ... well you could read 'Big Companies' instead.  The level of corruption in government is just starting to out now.......Will it all get sorted out ? NO !!! they just change the rules that apply to them ... The worst that can happen to a lord that has committed fraud at present is they get named and shamed in the house of lords...big deal ... they still get the hundreds of thousands of pounds they get from the companies they err work for !!! If you or I were to do the same , we would end up in court very fast . One rule for THEM and thousands for the rest .... 

cheers

Russ