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Author Topic: incubation problems  (Read 4368 times)

farmers wife

  • Joined Jul 2009
  • SE Wales
incubation problems
« on: June 30, 2017, 08:40:45 am »
Im very much an ameteur so its not surprising Ive had a bad result with the incubator.  The Brinsea Octagon is about 10yrs old.  Used it initially, loaned it out and started back this year,


Le Bresse eggs


4 weeks ago hatched 6 out of 12.  3 were fluid the rest had dead chicks.
New batch - Now on day 22 of 18 eggs only 2 have hatched.  For some reason I am not hopeful for the rest. Even though I can feel there are chicks in there I assume these have died.


With an ameteur incubator what % success should I realistically be getting?
The temp did creep up a bit but I had to turn it down.  Im always checking the water reservoir. It did get very hot here but I was checking the digital temp.


Should I be doing more through bulb checks and using a hygrometer?


Any other help appreciated.  The issue is the cost - the eggs work out £2 each plus postage so they table birds come with a hefty overheads before we start.  If only these two survive that makes my chicken £16 each plus the cost of raising....feeling sick because the idea was to raise cheaper table chicken.
















chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 09:53:39 am »
Your humidity may be too high initially, so the air sac doesn't develop and the chick can't manoeuvre to pip? We run dry, because we have high ambient humidity anyway, then regularly check to air sac development to one of the many charts available, all of which seem to be copies of the same one I add. Brinsea have a chart in their on-line incubation guide. The 3 fluid were either infertile or died from bacterial infection early on- we use egg sanitizer. Our hatch rates are over 90% of fertile eggs.

Eve

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2017, 10:09:24 am »
Sorry to hear it isn't going well. It can be a lot of things, let's start with these:


1) if you plan to do this for many years, invest in a Brinsea calibrated thermometer, and a hygrometer (I can post a link to the two I've successfully used, some don't fit the incubator and others go on standby so you can't read them).


If the temperature in your incubator is 1.5C too low, lots of embryos will die throughout the 21 days, you can lose half of them that way.


Like Chris says, if the humidity is too low or too high, you are likely to loose many mainly towards the end when they can't turn to pip (too large) or couldn't grow big enough. Also, crank up the humidity for the last few days. Keep the incubator closed as soon as the first egg has pipped.


You need to know the humidity in the room the incubator is in before running it dry for the first 18 days (and having it much higher at the late stage).
In my house, heated and in the dry home counties, the ambient humidity is hardly ever good enough. Chickens don't sweat but their warmth causes humidity from the nest and ground they're sitting on.


Follow the Brinsea guidelines about temperature and humidity very precisely, it helps.


2) get your own parent stock (provided you can keep a cockerel).


Like Chris', from our own birds, both fertility and hatching rates are also over 90%. From other people's chickens' eggs, rates tend to be far lower.


3) keep the incubator away from sunshine and drafts like you already do but also in a room where the temperature is stable. Perhaps put it inside a wardrobe if need be?




4) don't panic yet, the chicks of one of my hens a.l.w.a.y.s hatch on day 22 and they're super healthy :)




Tomorrow will be day 23, right? Maybe candle them tonight and see which are fully developed? Knowing when they stopped developing will help you narrow down the causes. Wait until day 25 before opening any fully developed ones up to see what might have gone wrong.


Good luck, hope it goes better than expected today!  :fc:


« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 10:11:46 am by Eve »

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: incubation problems
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2017, 11:22:41 am »
I would ditch the brinsea octagon 20  :innocent:- I have one and it is very basic.  I have always had low hatching rates even from well reared pedigree eggs.  Even the temperature controller is tiny and very difficult to manipulate.  The water containers likewise are very small.  If you intend hatching a lot, invest in an automatic incy - even if it is second hand.

My friend, Carol and I have just set some eggs in an incubator she got second hand.  An R-Com 20 Pro

It does everything - you choose which bird the eggs are from - from a range of about 12 including quail and pheasant.  It then sets the day count down, and the temperature, bringing it slowly up to 37.5 for chooks, and shows the humidity level at start after putting in water in a very obvious container with a polystyrene ball to let you see the  level.  It asks for water when the humidity level starts to go down.  I ignore that because it is damp here in Central Scotland, so it shows about 28% just now which I'm happy with.  When we get to 18 days I might increase it a little but I might take advice on that nearer the time.  It turns the eggs continually - I didn't believe we had set it up right so I marked an egg and went back to check - it shows on the display that it is turning them - and turn them it does (oh ye of little fath  :eyelashes: )
We are novices to an extent too, so I'll let you know how it goes, but i can honestly say I have more faith in this incubator than my own one.  But I won't count my chickens until they're hatched  :roflanim:
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 11:24:23 am by doganjo »
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Eve

  • Joined Jul 2010
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2017, 11:44:33 am »
Our Octagon is brilliant, 95% hatching rate. Anything but basic, automatic and all.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2017, 12:39:48 pm »
Hens maintain humidity by moving the eggs around - those that have been under them but are then moved to the outside will be warm and that will attract more moisture, as warm air can hold more than cold.  Many hens pluck the feathers from their brood patch, which puts the eggs in direct contact with skin which is more moist than feathers.

farmers wife

  • Joined Jul 2009
  • SE Wales
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2017, 02:11:05 pm »
Thank you all this has been informative and to the point.  Suppose Ive jumped in the deep end.  The annoying thing is that I have a hydrometer and should of popped it in. 


Im not interested nor do I have the time to be raising hens with cockerels.  I think I do too much here and things go wrong enough.  Im happy to buy in good eggs at a cost but knowing I can get at 90% result is fine with me. 2/18 is terrible and leaves a gap in my plan for table chickens.


Because Im in and out all day and the incubator can be last on the list there is a possibility of improving my laying by investing in an automatic humidity control but is pricey and a big investment. I'll think about changing it.


day 23 tomorrow yes but gut feeling is not good.


 

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2017, 10:54:15 pm »
It's very variable. I don't know your machine, but here's some stuff that I do...

Anyone round you sell eggs for eating and run a cock? Use 10 of these each time till you get it working properly. There's always someone wanting pullet chicks, even cross breds. So you should be able to keep whatever hatches for little time, maybe a month, sex, kill cocks and sell pullets for couple pounds each to break about even.

Weigh your eggs as well as using your hygrometer. Weight loss tells you how much water they've lost. Google it, but off the top of my head I think it's 13% they're meant to lose which is something like 0.4% of their weight per day. So you can weigh at start, then again maybe every 4 days or so, take an average each time, work out percentage lost and then increase or decrease humidity accordingly.

I've been amazed at the difference in temperature between the top and bottom of the eggs. Make sure the thermometer is to top of eggs, in line with them is best (a centimetre above may mean the eggs are too cool).

Shell quality impacts too. I've noticed that eggs showing more pits, thin or irregularities when candled often fail. Pale shells are easier to candle; good for trial runs!  Good luck!

Charlie1234

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Powys
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2017, 12:34:55 am »
 I used to buy eggs in via ebay etc so I would always candle them before I put them into the incubator as with white eggs like the Bresse you will see if the airsac is damaged. May not be the incubator thats to blame,I`v seen what happens in a sorting office when a group decides to "HAVE A LAUGH"  :rant: with someones Item marked Fragile.
5 Dogs,5 cats,40 chickens,2badger faced sheep + a full freezer

farmers wife

  • Joined Jul 2009
  • SE Wales
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2017, 08:27:55 am »
gave up this morning. 16 sorry not 18.


2 alive hatched
10 were fluid
3 were fully formed
1 partly formed.


Not good

farmers wife

  • Joined Jul 2009
  • SE Wales
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2017, 08:30:39 am »
I used to buy eggs in via ebay etc so I would always candle them before I put them into the incubator as with white eggs like the Bresse you will see if the airsac is damaged. May not be the incubator thats to blame,I`v seen what happens in a sorting office when a group decides to "HAVE A LAUGH"  :rant: with someones Item marked Fragile.


Agree even though Im in a good location these eggs were from Hay on Wye which is a bit of a journey got to take into account the travelling and the time.  Looking at half a day!

Charlie1234

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Powys
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2017, 12:17:51 pm »
I`ve sold eggs via post for a few years now + found that polyboxes on their own offer little if any protection.
I wrap the eggs in bubble wrap then place into a polybox,then wrap in bubblewrap + if I can find a suitable box for the amount im sending I put the whole lot in that and place packaging top+bottom.

I personally prefer to travel to collect eggs these days as I have spent £££`s on eggs and got poor results,so in the long run it works out cheaper to go collect if possible.
5 Dogs,5 cats,40 chickens,2badger faced sheep + a full freezer

lord flynn

  • Joined Mar 2012
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2017, 04:32:51 pm »
when I used a Brinsea 20 (had a cradle but no hygrometer) I had much better results hatching dry until the the last three days-I'd then fill the troughs, leave the vents cracked open and leave-always got more than 95% hatch rate  from collected eggs BUT never more than 20% with postal eggs.


other than that, get yourself a couple of gold tops or a muscovy hen or two-they will hatch anything and you don't have the work of hand rearing.

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2017, 06:48:56 pm »

Agree even though Im in a good location these eggs were from Hay on Wye which is a bit of a journey got to take into account the travelling and the time.  Looking at half a day!
[/quote]

Any time I go away or someone's coming up to visit me I get online to find eggs that can be collected. Lol. Was only 2:30 out of my way three weeks ago, I was so sure I'd read 'just off the motorway'. Lol! Guy I met was lovely and had great birds.  I also boutght some eggs from a lady keeper outside hay on wye, was in Cardiff for a hen weekend, convinced my mum to go shopping in Hay, then flew them back as hand luggage  :idea: forget hatch rate now, something like 50/60%, but don't remember.

Sounds like there are a couple of things wrong with the whole set up/eggs.
The fluid filled ones sound like they were faulty; not fertile maybe.
So you're 2 of 6 hatched. Could be anything, I'm not an expert to be able to comment, hopefully others will.
Stand by my earlier suggestion of sourcing some fertile eating eggs if you can and run another test. Good luck x

Charlie1234

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Powys
Re: incubation problems
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 10:56:02 am »
If you send me your name + address in a pm I will send you 12 eggs of my Indian game x speckledy wrapped and posted my way for free if you can cover the postage of £4.50

I`ve sold quite a few and have repeat customers that have had 80% + hatch rate

5 Dogs,5 cats,40 chickens,2badger faced sheep + a full freezer

 

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