Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Renta-Ram  (Read 3336 times)

Ermingtrude

  • Joined Mar 2017
Renta-Ram
« on: May 17, 2017, 09:13:18 pm »
Could I ask how best to go about looking for a ram for next year's lambs. We survived ( with help from here ! ) lambing our  4 Zwartbles girls ( pregnant when we got them, now proud owners of the 4 Mums, 2 castrated boys, and 6 girls, which will be kept for breeding once they are of a suitable age).  We also have 4 Wiltshire ewes, which are just turning 2 years now, so are thinking of putting them in lamb at the end of the year, for lambs in May 2018.

Not really sure where to start - all the rams I have seen advertised around here seem to be mixed breed, and we were hoping to keep purebred, although as novices, we are open to any/all advice.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 09:43:02 pm »
Start with the breed societies and go back to the people you bought your sheep from.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 10:29:34 pm »
Try the Zwartbles Association sales. There are always good tups to be had there without spending a fortune (for instance, the minimum sale price for tup lambs is set at £150 IIRC, and there are always plenty of good ones that go unsold at that price).

Also visit your local shows and get chatting to other breeders. We bought a cracking Z tup last year who had just done two years with a show flock. His previous owner was happy to sell him to us in October at a good price once he had finished working for her, because it meant she didn't have to overwinter him. We then put him to work again in November.

Whereabouts are you, BTW?  :wave:
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

farmers wife

  • Joined Jul 2009
  • SE Wales
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 11:27:45 pm »
You are taking on a lot with two separate breeds and its a lot of hassle/expense.  Most people have one breed and one/two rams.  You dont want to buy a ram for 4 wilts.  Possibly a welsh works well on a wilt will produce cracking big lambs for the pot. Having two also means keeping separate flocks while the ram is running with them. Wilt rams are big creatures and can be tasty too.


I dont know much about Zwartbles and cant say whether they work with a wilt either.


If you know the farmers around you that may have a LLeyn/Welsh to run with the flock that would be good but obv these lambs would be for the market.  Not many commercial farms stock wilts so you wont have the opportunity to drop the ewes off into their field either. Then there are bio security risks to think about.


Be wary of what you are buying - there are some sh@t rams out there - rams carry poor/good genes what you dont want to do is bring in issues with poor feet, poor conformation and sick prone lambs.  It is a mine field and stick with someone who knows a lot about the breed and understands the genetics of the flock its come from.  I would def look at a cross on on the Wilt.

bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 08:00:48 am »
I wouldn't rent a ram, and I def wouldn't rent one out. You risk introducing illness into your flock and the person who rents the ram out could end up having an ill or badly looked after ram returned to him.

I'd contact the Zwartble breed society and see if there are many members near you, and the society should be able to tell you roughly how many sheep they have. I'd contact a member with a largish flock and say that your interested in buying a ram lamb with potential to be your stock ram. he may even have an older ram that he has no use for anymore.

I'd cross your other sheep with the Zwartble Ram.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 08:26:19 am »
I wouldn't rent a ram, and I def wouldn't rent one out. You risk introducing illness into your flock

One thing with Zs is that most large flocks are MV accredited. That means that they wouldn't be able to rent a ram out to a non-accredited flock even if they wanted to. I don't understand the comment about introducing illness though - surely the risk is the same regardless of whether you rent or buy?  ???

Re using a Z tup on your Wilts, we have used our Z tup with a Manx Loaghtan ewe for the past two years with good results (she wasn't a first timer though, and the lambs were definitely larger than pure bred Manx lambs).



There's some more info on cross breeding here BTW.

I'd contact the Zwartble breed society and see if there are many members near you

Actually, with Zwartbles it's even easier than that. Go to the ZSA website, then click the link at the top that says 'flockbook'. If you then click 'Member Search', you can get a list of flocks in your area, and contact details for the owners. You can even see the pedigree records for their sheep, so you can check bloodlines etc.

Overall though, I'd still go to some local shows and try to get chatting with other owners. Most would cheerfully sell you a tup lamb at the meat price, who you could use for the year and then eat. We sold two Z lambs that way last year, who each worked fine the same year they were born.

"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 09:12:52 am »
I wouldn't rent a ram, and I def wouldn't rent one out. You risk introducing illness into your flock and the person who rents the ram out could end up having an ill or badly looked after ram returned to him.



You have a fair point but in reality lots of people loan tups and don't have an issue. Like using any animal as a stud you need to do your homework and take a good look at the tup, his off spring, the general flock management and health status.


If you are going to loan a tup you need good fencing. And if you are uneasy about managing a tup then take your girls to him.


Another option if a ram lamb, use him then move him on.


If you want to breed pure taking your girls to the tup would be my option rather than buying in two males.

bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 10:42:03 am »
I run a closed flock, I buy in rams every 2/3 yrs and breed my own replacements. If you hire a ram for 3 weeks he could of been exposed to quite a few different flocks of sheep in that time and I doubt you could quarantiene it before it saw your ewes. If you buy one you can quarantiene it and the next few years be sure its not carrying any nasties!

Its sheep bad luck I know but I did buy a couple of cade lambs a few years back who infected my entire flock with pink eye. It was horrible, many of the ewes were blinded and had ulcerated eyes. I particularly remember one ewe stood in the middle of the field frantically calling for her lambs who were right next to her asleep.

As I say, its pure bad luck but I try and place a high emphasis on biosecurity these days


Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 11:50:14 am »
I run a closed flock, I buy in rams every 2/3 yrs and breed my own replacements. If you hire a ram for 3 weeks he could of been exposed to quite a few different flocks of sheep in that time and I doubt you could quarantiene it before it saw your ewes. If you buy one you can quarantiene it and the next few years be sure its not carrying any nasties!

Ah, ok. That makes more sense - thanks!
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 01:21:33 pm »
Depending on what you want to do with any Wilts x crossbred lambs, white lambs generally do better in a ring than coloured. ;).  But aside from that, I'd agree that if your priority is to breed the Zwartbles pure, then it would be much easier to use one Z tup on the whole lot.

You could always get a Z tup lamb one year, use and eat or sell, then a Wilts tup lamb the next, use and eat or sell.  That way each of your pure girls gets to produce pure lambs every other year.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 01:54:57 pm »
I wouldn't rent a ram, and I def wouldn't rent one out. You risk introducing illness into your flock

One thing with Zs is that most large flocks are MV accredited. That means that they wouldn't be able to rent a ram out to a non-accredited flock even if they wanted to. I don't understand the comment about introducing illness though - surely the risk is the same regardless of whether you rent or buy?  ???



Generally when you buy in a ram it will be quarantined for a number of weeks before going out with ewes, whereas a ram on hire or loan will generally go straight in with them.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 03:38:46 pm »
I hire out Southdown rams -  most go to flocks that I've sold the original foundation stock for.  Rams go out only once a season, are quarantined on return then go to cull without coming into contact with the home flock.  It adds value to our ram lambs, provides a service for owners of small, pedigree flocks that don't want the bother of a ram around all year and also saves them the expense of buying a registered ram. 

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 04:07:48 pm »
I run a closed flock, I buy in rams every 2/3 yrs and breed my own replacements. If you hire a ram for 3 weeks he could of been exposed to quite a few different flocks of sheep in that time and I doubt you could quarantiene it before it saw your ewes. If you buy one you can quarantiene it and the next few years be sure its not carrying any nasties!

As I say, its pure bad luck but I try and place a high emphasis on biosecurity these days


I don't disagree with you. Here we have fields that are next to other fields that don't belong to us. There is mixed fell grazing and always stray. On the other side of the coin maybe that builds up some communal immunity.


In an ideal world you would keep your own tup/s but then you have to be realistic about numbers too.

Ermingtrude

  • Joined Mar 2017
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 06:05:04 pm »
Thank you so much for the replies - very interesting reading, and brought up points we hadn't considered.

As for flock health and bio-security - I hadn't thought of that, even though I know about isolation and checking for infections before mixing animals together. I have been  careful so far in bringing in new sheep, and having them in a separate field for a month before mixing. Didn't think of this for rams - not sure why !

Our fencing is fine, so having a ram isn't an issue, but wasn't sure that having one for such small numbers was the way forward, but with info, perhaps it is the way to go. We don't want to be flooded with lambs, so we are being careful with numbers, and what can go to the freezer, and what will stay as breeding/lawnmowing. 

Not really thought about cross breeding, as the Z and the W seem quite a size apart, and I would worry that a Z ram on W ladies, would cause size problems with lambs. We have plenty of land for them, so not looking at numbers, more for some lawnmowers, and some for the freezer, and are unlikely to breed them yearly.

Thank you again for your input, will head to the breedbook and breeder, and certainly consider a brought in young ram.

Ermingtrude

  • Joined Mar 2017
Re: Renta-Ram
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 06:05:52 pm »
Oh, and in Carmarthenshire - and loving it  !

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS