Author Topic: When to let out a 'bad' mum and lambs (Read 6189 times)

Dans · « **Reply #15 on:** May 12, 2017, 01:34:46 pm »

Quote from: penninehillbilly on May 12, 2017, 11:57:25 am

Just to say don't worry about asking all your questions Dan's, if I can't answer, (and even if I can) I learn from other people's answers .

Thank you [member=22672]penninehillbilly[/member] I feel such a pest posting so many questions. But before we started (and still now when I get a chance to come on) I focus on the problem threads. I figured the more I read about other people's problems the more likely I am to spot an issue. Didn't think of my posts being useful to others.

Dans

harmony · « **Reply #16 on:** May 12, 2017, 02:32:24 pm »

Most teats need a hole cutting in them. The milk should come through easily enough if there is a hole unless it is blocked with a bit of unmixed milk powder or something. Then a good squeeze or washing the teat should sort it.

I know there seems a lot of stress at the time of birth but if you need to check the udder you just have to do it. Sometimes the plug in the end of the teat needs shifting and you can put the lambs on the sheep more easily with the ewe tipped.

Crows can be a damned nuisance. Friends of ours have had a lot of trouble with them bothering new lambs.

A bit of rain wont hurt. You might delay putting out in very heavy or cold wet weather.

Two on one day! I sometimes think it must be easier the more you have because you don't have all day to worry about just one!

Old Shep · « **Reply #17 on:** May 12, 2017, 02:49:03 pm »

Yes the Ritchie teats need a hole cutting but be careful not to cut too much off. There's a little sticky out bit cut half way down this at first so just a hole of about 1mm. Too big a hole and too much milk comes out at once. If you're feeding an older pet lamb you make the hole bigger.

Fieldfare · « **Reply #18 on:** May 12, 2017, 03:24:51 pm »

Hi Dans- to some extent (particularly with primitives) you need to let nature take over- guiding it a bit where necessary ie your manual lambing- it sounds from what you have said that bottle feeding is not necessary and will just add to the stress on lambs and ewe ...and yourself (I have never had a Castlemilk lamb die after it has had its first drink). They really are tough but can look really fragile (particularly the smaller lamb). Some ewes are more milky than others but she will have enough, even if it doesn't look that way now, and the lambs will thrive. Mammary glands will be stimulated to produce more if the lambs draw from them...so supplementing a lamb may actually encourage the ewe to produce *less* milk and trap you into bottle feeding! When a bit older they may steal from a more milky 'single' ewe if necessary (they can be very sneaky!). Seems a bit OTT of your vet to give antibiotics and painkiller to the ewe that you helped (didn't sound from your description that the ewe had an injurious birth?). I would gently question the use of these with the vet (aren't they supposed to be reducing antibiotic use to reduce resistance?).
Good point about the acidosis (has never never happened to mine on ad lib nuts/hay penned up- but I suppose it could happen).
Nice crows, by the way, they shouldn't be a problem (beautiful birds!).

Dans · « **Reply #19 on:** May 12, 2017, 03:27:35 pm »

Well that'LL be why the lambs weren't interest in the bottle then

OK will go for the udder check next time. The way OH set it up this morning theye have access to the polytunnel and to some fresh grass outside so have been alternating between the two. They are looking a lot better this afternoon. I'm not even getting a panicked feeling when I look at them which is saying something!

Not sure if I am glad they are lambing on the same day or dreading it. One of them might be twins as well (scanner was confident on everyone else (and what order they would lamb in) but said she might be carrying twins, lamb(s) looked a bit small.

Dans

Fieldfare · « **Reply #20 on:** May 12, 2017, 03:42:27 pm »

Hi Dans- you will be fine! The whole process is so miraculous it is almost unbelievable isn't it? and it feels like you need to be diving in at every moment. With primitives you'll see that nature has it covered (well almost every time!). Good luck! Post some more photos! I'll post mine a bit later of my 3 week-olds.

twizzel · « **Reply #21 on:** May 12, 2017, 03:42:56 pm »

Quote from: Fieldfare on May 12, 2017, 03:24:51 pm

Seems a bit OTT of your vet to give antibiotics and painkiller to the ewe that you helped (didn't sound from your description that the ewe had an injurious birth?). I would gently question the use of these with the vet (aren't they supposed to be reducing antibiotic use to reduce resistance?).
Good point about the acidosis (has never never happened to mine on ad lib nuts/hay penned up- but I suppose it could happen).

Always given antibiotics if we have had to help a ewe any more than giving a gentle pull, on advice from vet. Anti inflammatories are a must too and under estimated in terms of the positive effect they can have, so always give them alongside antibiotics. blanket use of antibiotics I.e jabbing all newborn lambs to prevent infection is discouraged but I wouldn't think twice to giving antibiotics to a ewe if she's had trouble lambing and you've had your hand inside.

Buttermilk · « **Reply #22 on:** May 12, 2017, 07:31:40 pm »

Quote from: twizzel on May 12, 2017, 03:42:56 pm

Quote from: Fieldfare on May 12, 2017, 03:24:51 pm
Seems a bit OTT of your vet to give antibiotics and painkiller to the ewe that you helped (didn't sound from your description that the ewe had an injurious birth?). I would gently question the use of these with the vet (aren't they supposed to be reducing antibiotic use to reduce resistance?).
Good point about the acidosis (has never never happened to mine on ad lib nuts/hay penned up- but I suppose it could happen).

Always given antibiotics if we have had to help a ewe any more than giving a gentle pull, on advice from vet. Anti inflammatories are a must too and under estimated in terms of the positive effect they can have, so always give them alongside antibiotics. blanket use of antibiotics I.e jabbing all newborn lambs to prevent infection is discouraged but I wouldn't think twice to giving antibiotics to a ewe if she's had trouble lambing and you've had your hand inside.

My vet left a bottle of antibiotic to be used if the ewe showed signs of needing it after an assisted lambing he did. If the ewe did not show signs of infection I did not have to use it. Non was used.

Old Shep · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2017, 07:55:52 pm »

I think there's a difference between an assisted lambing where you have had to be very intrusive, eg to sort out a tangle of two lambs, and assisting by pulling legs which are already past the pelvic bone. The first I would give ab's and metacam, the second I would give neither.

Dans · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2017, 10:12:12 pm »

Will keep that in mind about the Abs. I spoke to the vet and they said it would be best practice to give so we did. We saw her start to pass the afterbirth and checked on her each hour but one check it was still hanging and the next no sign. I assume she ate it but not sure if she passed it all, she's had some stringy, bloody discharge occassionally.

I had a go at getting milk from mum and checked her feet as she had really bad shelly hoof whilst pregnant. I got a little bit of milk from each side, just dribbles but that may be my technique. Her udders are very large though, no lumps or hotness, just normal body warmth. The lambs look more sunken than our single lamb did but they were bounding up and down the polytunnel most of the day so they have some energy. I ummed and ahhed about giving a bottle to top them up but have figured it might be best to leave them be.

Some pictures as requested [member=10275]Fieldfare[/member] I'm starting to think we should have a thread every year dedicated to pictures of cute lambs...

Dans

Fieldfare · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2017, 10:55:12 pm »

Hi Dans- they look good and healthy!!!! Udder looks good and full. Just for the record have never given abs to mine even when assisted (you should never need to cut the ewe even with the biggest of lambs). Just a couple of points I would only check feet at turnout from the pen- turning a ewe straight after lambing doesn't sound great for her and adds to the stress of her day. Stripping milk? never found this necessary- the lambs have always got the teats working and again I think it is just an extra stress for the ewe. As I said in a previous email if you really did have a slow/weak lamb you would be better off holding it onto a teat to get it sucking (I have had to do this only once and did it several times over a few hours) rather than bottle feeding. It worked and lamb could be left with mum. Defo. a good move not to top them up by bottle- again mum knows best!

Shelly hoof- some of mine have had that for years with no issue. I guess it is genetic in some Castlemilks- just cut the best you can (not too much up the side) and then leave it and don't worry about it except on your (yearly?) foot check. It has never caused mine a problem and I have never seen footrot or lamenss at all. It could be a trait to cull for though I suppose.

Photo is of some of mine today at about 3.5 weeks old...they are growing very nicely so far!

Dans · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2017, 11:34:52 pm »

I'll keep that all in mind.

We had one go a little lame in the autumn but it resolved itself. About 4 weeks ago we had a ewe go completely off one foot, running around on 3 legs and kneeling to eat. Turned out to be a bad shelly hoof where one piece has become lodged between her toes. Guess what, it was this ewe.

We've had to do minimal intervention with the flock, had a go at dagging but there wasn't anything there really. The only issue other than the lameness mentioned above was a head abcess, which was again this ewe. She is also our worst to actually do anything as no matter how I hold her she will wriggle and even try going up on her back legs. She was top of my cull list then scanned as twins. Then I said anything short of twin ewe lambs and she goes as she is our most trouble, but she's given us twin ewe lambs!

Awwww those lambs look good. I am looking forward to seeing these two out with the other one, I think he is getting a little lonely.

Dans

Fieldfare · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2017, 11:52:58 pm »

Oh God! I think I know her mum...totally wild...but nice...but if she lambed 2 ewes OK I don't think you have a choice! I guess just keep an eye on the shelly hoof...

Dans · « **Reply #28 on:** May 13, 2017, 12:10:13 am »

Do I need to worry that these two will be crazy too? lol Her mum was Bedstraw. The feet were looking much better when I checked today so she should hopefully be fine until I check again next year. I may give her 3 more strikes, if she uses them up then she goes!

Dans