[NethertonSH]

Do you ever think you're trying to do too much?

I think my wife and I are at risk of burn out trying to keep on top of everything, we're working till midnight every night and spending little time with each other unless its working the veg patch. I work full time as an RA at a uni, we have two daughters aged 2 and 1, we have about 50 odd sheep, two sows, poultry, try to grow as much fruit and veg as we can, keep about 20 acres of fields in decent condition to make and sell hay, run a couple small holiday cottages and then we have our own "hobbies" on top of that.

I think we need to simplify. Question is what must go? Initial thoughts are the sheep, at least a chunk of them anyway then just make enough hay for ourselves. 

Has anyone else been in a similar position?

[Terry T]

It does sound like you p'raps haven't quite got the right balance. And it's so easy to do as we tend to enjoy the variaty of what we do. I've just taken in a job half time while trying to double up on my veg box business. We also want to get a few sheep and breed our own poultry but my husband is v keen not to over do it and helps keep my ambitions in check.
You've got to look after yourself foremost ot it will collapse around your ears.
My suggestion would be to consider how to add efficiency to each process. Cut out the stuff that's not fun. Consider hiring a bit of help if you can afford to. And bear in mind the kids will get older and hopefully less work so you can build back up in a few years - even getting them to help you.
Don't risk a burn out because it will be hard to recover from.
Good luck!

[mojocafa]

  less sheep, more grass!

[NethertonSH]

Thanks Terry, I think you're right about adding efficiency. To do this I think we need to drop the things that aren't giving the best return, not financially but in terms of enjoyment and satisfaction. My 9 till 5 brings in the money, everything else is about health and lifestyle. I think the problem is we do enjoy all the different things we do individually but trying to do them all whilst working 9 till 5 whilst bringing up two children turns them into a bit of a chore.   I have the option to only work 3 or 4 days a week which would allow us to get more done at home but its just weighing up the pros and cons of that i.e make less money but have more time at home with kids and grow/rear more of our own food.

less sheep, more grass!

Yes you're not wrong, that was partly why we got the sheep so I think we'd look at renting out some fields.

[Rosemary]

Cattle are a lot less work than sheep.

Have you thought about partnership working with like minded folk who maybe don't have capital but ahve skills / labour?

[clydesdaleclopper]

You'll probably find it easier in a few years time when the kids are a bit older. Mine are now 6 & 9 and the 9 year old is really helpful. A few years back I felt a bit like you. If you cut back just now you can always expand again later.

[Fleecewife]

It's so easy to take on too much in your initial enthusiasm, before you realise just how much work is involved in each project.   You can get so caught up in the endless slog that you lose your perspective.
Take a step back and look at the whole venture, what you both enjoy, what brings in profit (do you need to make a profit?), and what is vital to your chosen lifestyle.  Decide if you want to be a farmer or a smallholder (think about it, they're different)


I would ditch the pigs for now, easy to replace them later. I agree about getting rid of most of the sheep, just keep a small breeding core, then when the children are older and you have become more efficient at what you do, (and they eat more) you can build your numbers back up.  Keep your core flock well away from any stock on rented out fields, for biosecurity.


There is a limit to how much fruit and veg two people can eat, and your children are too small to eat much yet, so don't waste time growing more than you can use.  Only the compost heap benefits from that.


We are currently going through something similar.  We are at the opposite end of the age scale, and sometimes (mostly) we are just worn out.  We realised the fun was going out of what we were doing.  So, this is our last year breeding our Hebs, although we'll keep a dozen old ladies and a couple of tups.  We now have just a handful of hens, which produce enough eggs for the house but none to sell on.  We did get the geese and we are in two minds about them.


A big change has been in the veg garden.  We have grassed over at least half of the outside veg area and concentrate on growing the foods we most like.  We used to sell a surplus at the gate, but now we don't produce any surplus as it's just a waste of our hard work.  I have to be realistic about what will be eaten, what will be processed for storage, and how much of that will actually be eaten.
We used to produce enough for our own children and their families, but we've realised they have far more energy than us so they can grow their own.
There are various ways you can make your veg growing less hard work, such as adopting a 'no dig' approach.  We are currently experimenting with dividing the whole outdoor veg area in two.  One half is covered with very strawy manure, then covered with a tarp and left for a whole year.  meanwhile all the crops are grown in the other half.  When the tarp is taken off, the soil should be soft, friable, weed free and ready to plant strait in to, with just a few thistle roots to take out.
We also use two rotavators, one for heavy work, the other a narrow machine for weeding between the rows. 
It's all about efficiency, so you get the best return for your input.


Many couples do burn out for the very reasons you say, so it's good you've realised in time to do something to prevent it.  This lifestyle choice (loaded expression) has to be fun and enjoyable or you might as well just go back to the rat race (no - don't do that  )

[clydesdaleclopper]

You could use some of your land to plant a forest garden. In a few years time you can just send the kids out to forage for their food.

[Backinwellies]

Totally identify with this .... OH and I are just back from a well earned weekend away and realise that some changes are needed. As to what no decisions yet!

Sheep stuff such as heptovac comes in 25 sheep doses ... so reducing sheep to fit makes sense.  Look at field size .... do they suit smaller numbers or will you be having to erect and move electric fences.   
Ditch the sows ... get a couple of weaners maybe if freezer is lacking pig meat at a time of year which is less stressful.
Stay working 5 days a week and pay a cleaner for home and cottages  or drop a day and do more yourself...

Are cottages renting well for full weeks or  are there a lot of very short lets?  Is this cost effective?

As to fruit and veg growing it is a fun and thankless task.   I like the suggestion I read somewhere ... only grow what is easy to grow and expensive to buy (tomatoes are usually so cheap at time of year when home grown ripen is it really worth growing for eg)

I'm with Rosemary on the cattle vs sheep work .... and my cows are currently living off rushes as the grass refuses to grow this spring!

Love the forest garden idea .... Clyde tell us more please ...

[clydesdaleclopper]

Love the forest garden idea .... Clyde tell us more please ...

I have a couple of area where I have done this. they have only been in a couple of years and I have concentrated on fruit. I have apple, plum and mulberry trees with an understory of currants, gooseberries, honey berries, raspberries, strawberries, brambles and I use various mints and comfrey as ground cover. They require minimal upkeep and in the summer when the kids ask for dessert after their meal I send them out to help themselves. It's great as there's no washing up 

[ellied]

I am on my own and have been struggling for a few years now for various reasons.  I halved the breeding Highland pony herd but still have oldies and middle aged breeders including a stallion tho he's advertised as are the remaining youngstock.  10 acres fence maintenance is beyond me but I need more than that so I had a stubble field rental for winter and got hay delivered to that to rest my land from poaching (just had stallion and 2 broodmares at home) which was a huge relief from bale pushing through mud and also gave me a bit of time to catch up.  If the contractor turns up this time I'll have less ragwort digging hours in summer tho he's not entirely reliable for small area work if a big farm gets in touch..

What I have done is plant more fruit bushes, rasps and currants mainly but logan, tay and blackberry in small numbers .  Plus some more dessert apples, pear, damson and plum, an extra rhubarb and a couple gooseberries.  These take little maintenance other than the big old Bramley trees need a big prune once or twice a year which I can manage more or less on a 5 year plan.  Oh and I've started some asparagus in the greenhouse last year in pots which I plan to plant out this year now the big dungheap is good soil and safely spread on the raised beds (3/4 of it, one for plants that don't like rich soil).

Hens I've sold as many young hens and pol as I can, if someone comes and wants a couple I sell them, no favourite keeping any more (!) and I've advertised my 18 month-2yo hens for a fiver to avoid what I have now which is half a dozen OAP birds laying very irregularly but eating as much.  Also advertised the cockerel FTGH stating he has no aggression at all (he is well behaved but I am also trying to avoid someone wanting him for fighting).  I've stopped hatching eggs here (never a big thing but I can't despatch boys so don't want them born) and now buy in day old sexed females from 2 sources, one of which swaps me his spare girls for some of mine and sells on others after buying them from me as growers so he can focus on his one preferred breed but still offer variety of birds to his customers who are well established.

I also have a gardener comes in 2 hours a week to help keep on top of heavy jobs I can't manage alone (like the muck shovelling onto the raised beds) and I hope he's going to resurrect the domestic part of the garden to less of a wilderness chicken play area.  One areas has herbs spread all through it which at least chokes most of the weeds there, another has been reclaimed for rasp canes, but there are big thistly/nettly areas I am sick of pulling and he isn't averse to deep weed digging so I may ask about help with the ragwort if it comes to it.  He's well worth his £20 and tho my outside work (self employed remedial/sports massage therapist and a few hours gym cleaning) doesn't afford much outside help I tried just living self sufficient and reclusive without real outside work before and it doesn't work out very well for a single person. 

Veg is now limited and I don't advertise it or take it to sale points, only take what is actually asked for if I already have it from long term customers and I focus on easier and prolific things like beans, courgettes, broccoli and kale that folk like fresh/local.  Tatties, onions and carrots there is no point, it's easy to buy a sack from a local farmer for myself and let others do the same, they just take up a lot of space and are hard work for me digging and weeding wise.  I don't grow anything I don't want to eat.

In your situation I'd half the sheep, cut out the pigs (why are they there? to eat or breed? Buy half a pig for the freezer when you want one and save that time/space) reduce the veg, plant fruit or relatively easy managed veg that people will pay for (asparagus, kale, blueberries?) and your family want to eat anyway but not the cheap buy stuff.  Keep a few hens for your own supply and entertainment, but use your waged job to pay for help with other things like field management, maybe use the spare grass to make and sell more hay not less as that is a better earner than sheep grazing for others. 

Or do what I did one year and do a deal with a local farmer to crop one field for barley/oats, undersown with new grass.  He takes the grain, leaves the straw baled for your use or to sell.  Year 2 he grazes lambs on your new grass to ted it in, then takes hay off it and you split the bales - you could add in a deal for your other haymaking if wanted.  Then you have another hayfield and can offer autumn grazing to lambs for a few months but not have sheep all year and fencing is covered for running repairs while you have time to do the rest when you choose.

[devonlady]

Some really good advice on here! It's awful to lie awake at night worrying about the work stacking up and making excuses to put off doing it!!
When we bought our land, about 12 years ago, we were all going to go into it together, OH, two sons, two daughters
and their partners. That lasted for maybe a year so I had to go it alone but had a lot of energy then. Now I have my grandson who does all he can and having been ill on and off for the past 2 years my energy and enthusiasm has gone so I decided to cut down altogether to the boy's 4 sheep and I'm afraid they will have to go as well.
So, best to cut down before the work cuts you down. As said you can always add again little by little. Good luck, whatever you decide.

[NethertonSH]

Finally managing to sit down and read all your helpful advice, thanks everyone!

I think we'll cut things back for a few years until the kids are at school and we have a little more time on our hands. I think the sheep will be the first to go, and possibly and reluctantly followed by our sows once they've had and weaned their litters but we'll see, we're quite fond of our pigs.

Its not that anything individually is hard its just the combination of all the little tasks that need done. It would be nice to have a list that you could get to the bottom of now and again. We do love what we do and the lifestyle it brings but we don't want to loose the enjoyment by overdoing it. Just finding the balance!

Thanks again everyone!