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Author Topic: bird flu  (Read 29949 times)

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: bird flu
« Reply #675 on: February 17, 2017, 09:52:53 am »
Being serious for a minute though, the Welsh Self Assessment is NOT a risk assessment; it's a checklist that enables you to show that you're complying with the various bits of guidance:

Quote
This self assessment form will assist all keepers of poultry and other captive birds to provide assurance they are compliant with the required measures that apply within the zone. The required risk mitigation measures should be considered as the minimum expected. All keepers are encouraged where possible to exceed these.

The problem is, the questions are then worded in a very specific and prescriptive way, for example:

"A3) What robust (written) records do you have in place relating to movements of people, vehicles and equipment into or out of your bird area?"

Now, a risk assessment for a smallholder might be "this is my private house, so the only vehicles, people or equipment in the area shared with poultry are mine or me. Because these vehicles are not visiting other farms or poultry production areas, the risk of introducing infection via this route is considered low".

Naturally, as a responsible keeper, I will do everything reasonably practicable to comply with the guidance and minimise the risk. However, edicts like this are really unhelpful for the likes of us. For example, the only true answer to question A3 is "no records are kept", which then opens me up to the accusation that I have not done the "minimum expected".

Repeat for the other twenty questions and you can see where the difficulty lies for smallholders.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 09:54:35 am by Womble »
Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: bird flu
« Reply #676 on: February 17, 2017, 09:54:32 am »
Here is the link to the BPA site re Avian Flu and Pigs
http://www.britishpigs.org/news_Avian_Influenza.htm


ColinS

  • Joined Dec 2016
Re: bird flu
« Reply #677 on: February 17, 2017, 10:41:08 am »
I have fitted an intercom system to my gate, and go there to collect my mail 

It occurred to me a while back that I should be disinfecting the post - especially anything from DEFRA. Obviously it makes it harder to read (difficult, I'll admit, for a DEFRA document...)

Anyway, it reminded me of this video (for reasons that become apparent if you watch it through):-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArMf6xbMsLI

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:48:46 am by ColinS »
The love of all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man - Darwin

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: bird flu
« Reply #678 on: February 17, 2017, 04:31:44 pm »
Womble what a good answer. I will copy it. Now if you can just get to work on the remaining questions.

Maybe answers such as the one you have given are sufficient. Who knows?

I plan to take simple common sense measures. Like Dan's, I will keep food and water inside and make some 'curtains' to deter wild bird entry, drain any stagnant water out of pots etc. Stop feeding the wild birds ((which saddens me), etc

My daughter likes to look at an ex batt forum. Someone on there said they were confused by DEFRAS new measures and rang to speak to someone to clarify the position. They were apparently told there few hens could be let out to free range in their garden provided that food and water were indoors. They said that they asked about bird droppings and were told not to worry.   :-\

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: bird flu
« Reply #679 on: February 17, 2017, 06:11:51 pm »


My daughter likes to look at an ex batt forum. Someone on there said they were confused by DEFRAS new measures and rang to speak to someone to clarify the position. They were apparently told there few hens could be let out to free range in their garden provided that food and water were indoors. They said that they asked about bird droppings and were told not to worry.   :-\

 So- if you've just got a few hens you can let them out in the garden anyway. That would appear to be good news although I would definitely have asked for the name of the person who proclaimed it. (And hands up all those that had secretly been doing that anyway!)

 However, I don't agree with not feeding the wild birds. If you have a set place to fed them then they will know to go there for their feed. If you usually feed them and then stop they are likely to roam a lot further afield in search of food, with potentially more risk of spreading the virus. (And that's assuming the small native birds are carrying it anyway.) If no one feeds them they will die. We could then potentially lose more wild birds through starvation than have been killed by the bird flu.
 So effectively we could end up throwing the baby out with the bath water.
 
life's too short to be boring.

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: bird flu
« Reply #680 on: February 17, 2017, 06:19:51 pm »
Mmmmm, OH did suggest that we fence off an area and feed the wild birds in there. Maybe that's an option. We feed all year round and I have to admit that it doesn't feel right not to carry on.

ColinS

  • Joined Dec 2016
Re: bird flu
« Reply #681 on: February 17, 2017, 06:47:57 pm »
However, I don't agree with not feeding the wild birds. If you have a set place to fed them then they will know to go there for their feed. If you usually feed them and then stop they are likely to roam a lot further afield in search of food, with potentially more risk of spreading the virus. (And that's assuming the small native birds are carrying it anyway.) If no one feeds them they will die. We could then potentially lose more wild birds through starvation than have been killed by the bird flu.
 So effectively we could end up throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Totally agree with you. We feed the wild birds to one side of the house (this leaves a way through for us that isn't over where they congregate) and I'm convinced that it reduces the number of birds in the fields and around the pond. Only the moorhens (that are resident on the pond anyway and as such I think are unlikely vectors) and the heron are in evidence and I think I'm now winning on the heron by going out every 20 minutes or so.
The love of all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man - Darwin

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: bird flu
« Reply #682 on: February 18, 2017, 01:08:39 pm »
the heron are in evidence and I think I'm now winning on the heron by going out every 20 minutes or so.
Buy a starting pistol and cartridges and shoot a couple of shots over the area it frequents every so often - it'll get the message pretty quickly, and entirely wihin the law - especially if it is a pink one like mine  :innocent:
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

ColinS

  • Joined Dec 2016
Re: bird flu
« Reply #683 on: February 21, 2017, 09:05:23 am »
Just one case found in wild birds again last week (Whooper Swan in Norfolk as per the previous week):-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/avian-influenza-in-wild-birds-winter-2016-to-2017

Fingers crossed for a clear week this time.

The love of all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man - Darwin

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: bird flu
« Reply #684 on: February 21, 2017, 12:43:06 pm »
Any members living in this part of France should know that the slaughter of 600,000 Blue Gasconne ducks starts on Thursday in Landes. Theoretically it includes us in the Gers as well, but they were all slaughtered last month. This is a new outbreak of the virulent H5N8 strain, as opposed to the H5N5 strain previously. It may well include chickens, but nothing has been said yet. this will take the slaughter total in this small Region (size of Wales) to over a million.


It was last week when we noticed huge flocks of the European Crane migrating North over this area. Don't know if they were carrying it?

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: bird flu
« Reply #685 on: February 22, 2017, 09:11:16 am »
If there's a big, closely confined, flock a small problem turns into a big one.  I've printed off and filled in the Welsh Government form (although I'm not in Wales).  It's now filed and I feel I've demonstrated "due diligence".

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: bird flu
« Reply #686 on: February 22, 2017, 04:28:08 pm »
My personal belief is that the regulations are nothing to do with wild bird nor domestic flock health.  One aspect is the government covering their backsides against compensation claims if they did nothing and poultry keepers suffered large losses.  But by far the most important aspect, and the reason for the emphasis on poultry, pigs and waterfowl, is the risk of the virus multiplying, mutating and becoming pathogenic to humans, which, history tells us, is most likely in poultry, waterfowl and pigs.

So little backyard flocks are probably very low risk, as is cross contamination with wild birds in back gardens.  Not no risk, though, and there is still the issue of the impact on your neighbours if a case were to occur.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: bird flu
« Reply #687 on: February 22, 2017, 05:25:41 pm »
Our poor Scottish birds are stuck in till April now - https://www.sruc.ac.uk/info/20005/sac_consulting/1760/avian_influenza_prevention_zone  :huff:
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Dave C

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Teesdale, Co Durham
Re: bird flu
« Reply #688 on: February 22, 2017, 06:09:11 pm »
The way I read it is they are still not insisting you house them, they are asking if you can concider if it's practically possible to house them.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: bird flu
« Reply #689 on: February 23, 2017, 12:48:56 pm »
My personal belief is that the regulations are nothing to do with wild bird nor domestic flock health.  One aspect is the government covering their backsides against compensation claims if they did nothing and poultry keepers suffered large losses.  But by far the most important aspect, and the reason for the emphasis on poultry, pigs and waterfowl, is the risk of the virus multiplying, mutating and becoming pathogenic to humans, which, history tells us, is most likely in poultry, waterfowl and pigs.

So little backyard flocks are probably very low risk, as is cross contamination with wild birds in back gardens.  Not no risk, though, and there is still the issue of the impact on your neighbours if a case were to occur.


Ideally all those working in large poultry units, and those working with waterfowl in reserves etc, should wear respirators when in with the birds.  I'm not joking here - birds can be infected with 'flu from us, and we can be infected with 'flu from them, and either way mutations can occur.  Nothing will eliminate the risk, but we can try our best.  As swine 'flu is a potential risk to both humans and (I assume) birds, then pig restrictions seem sensible.


I'm happy to keep my poultry inside as they have the whole polytunnel to themselves and love it.  It would be more difficult if the restrictions continue through the growing season.


Even if some of us feel cynical about government reasons for imposing the restrictions, I do believe we have to comply with good will.  Influenza epidemics are one of the huge human killers in the world, akin to The Black Death.
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