[farmers wife]

I am getting very confused with vaccination.  My initial flock came from a big commercial breeder (vac) I purchased  another two flocks over a month ago and a couple of non vac ones.  I am constantly having issues with CRD and my flock is looking and sounding poor.


The vet said they shouldnt get any CRDs if vaccinated.  The vet has taken bloods (from non vac) and waiting for results within the day or so.


She also said you can vaccinate older birds which may be an option however looking at the poor sods this morning I wonder where I go from here.  I know there could be an issue with vaccination as in 1. not done correctly by the breeder 2. the strain of say IB may not be in the vaccination programme 3. the CRD is too strong for the vaccination.


MY birds are pasture raised & have amazing care - what more can I do?


Just wondering if anyone has had a conversation with a good poultry vet on this subject.

[Marches Farmer]

Mixing naïve birds with vaccinated ones leaves them open to picking up diseases from the vaccinated stock.  It's why we now only buy in hatching eggs if we fancy keeping a new breed.  If we need a new cockerel it's from unvaccinated stock and quarantined for at least three weeks and then put in with a "sacrificial" hen for another three weeks before it joins the flock if all is well.   

[farmers wife]

spoken to a well known poultry vet practice tonight.  came to the conclusion that to follow the full vaccinated programme birds need to be treated over 14 weeks from day 1. Some breeders tell you they are vaccinated - they are not.  When buying in only buy from a reputable breeder and when adding buy from the same producer. Sadly then my day olds were not vaccinated (hence why they had terrible MG at 6 months old).  My second batch prob were but the last imports are questionable.  The one batch may be but the other def not.


I would confidently say my original flock infected my newbies.


The bloods came back with MG, Ms and IB.


I'm going to treat with Tylan but my days as an egg seller are questionable now.  Its not financially a good enough business to buy a new flock means I would be doing it for nothing. Husband cant see it being worth the effort. Feel gutted that I bought some lovely stock and a few pures but to see £25 bird drop dead is already a massive financial loss.


Buying in unvaccinated is very risky too as not all virus/diseases are showing but can happily transmit them. Buying eggs is also too risky considering MG is almost everywhere and people are selling eggs without confirming health status.

[Marches Farmer]

That's really tough.  I think there's room for a health scheme for most classes of livestock and poultry so you could buy from breeders with at least a sound baseline flock health plan.  Doesn't seem to be the will to get anything sorted, though, and I suspect it would be too expensive for smaller outfits to join anyway.

[Stereo]

I had the idea that you were SA Organic. In which case they should not be vaccinated without a derogation which maybe you have.

It's my belief that a lot of the problems stem from poorly done vaccination and also a lot from wild birds. I raise all my hens in covered, movable shelters ala Salatin and they don't seem to get any problems until they move to outdoor pens and meet the crows. Then you get the odd swollen eye etc. That's a PITA but not sure what you do about it. I tend to let it ride through and only breed from birds which have never shown signs. The rest go. Maybe harsh but my Mum's hens never used to get this and I wonder if we are just using vaccination to cover up poor genetics.

[farmers wife]

Yes you can vaccinate under SA rules.  Since I raised this question I have spoken to a specialist poultry vet and nothing you can do once they have become ill.


Sadly, the majority of my hens were not vaccinated from day 1 to 14 weeks hence why I have lost many. I was under the impression that they were vaccinated but since learning they need the full 14 weeks of innoculations. Many breeders do not understand this and will tell you they are but they are not.


I have decided to keep the flock as it is and only treat them when necessary I can do no more. I cannot add to this flock so I am now stuck with 50 odd infected birds.  My only option was to knock them all out  or let nature take its course.  In general they are well however with IB there may be some  that will never lay. I am understocked and cant fulfil my orders.


Its a difficult situation to be in all I can do is learn.  It will be in future only fully vaccinated birds in future and all in all out or keeping to the same breeder.

[chrismahon]

You can consider immunisation as deliberate infection, which means they are carriers. My advice is to run two flocks- one infected downwind of the new uninfected. This worked for us after our flock was infected by two immunised hybrids. In time all the infected age and die leaving you with a purebred uninfected flock.


Buy in very carefully. Sometimes the two week isolation period isn't enough as they can shed viruses during establishment of the pecking order. Our last newbies were in quarantine for over two months and in danger of despatch until we realised they didn't have Mycoplasma, but sensitive airways as a result of exposure to high dust levels- effectively a dust allergy from which they will not recover.

[farmers wife]

Great bit of info Chris, trouble is having two mobile homes for them and the time elements making it uneconomical to run.  I did think this being an option but in the winter bringing them in the shed would be a massive headache here.  I am still running a small egg business however I am seriously understocked and not fulfilling my orders.  Considering I paid nearly £300 for the two new batches my margin has been shot down for 1 year and husband keeps telling me it not worth the bother for the tiny income it brings.  I feel sad for my customers who love my eggs and delivery but in the grand scheme of being time efficient and profitable its not a great business.  To make the egg business work I think I need to be going down 500- 1000 hens but my nerves would be shot should I end up with an illness.

[Marches Farmer]

We thought of doing bigger numbers at one point but decided to go the rare breeds route and sell eggs just to passing locals.  Producing really healthy stock and helping to conserve rare breeds gives us a lot of satisfaction but not much profit! 

[farmers wife]

We thought of doing bigger numbers at one point but decided to go the rare breeds route and sell eggs just to passing locals.  Producing really healthy stock and helping to conserve rare breeds gives us a lot of satisfaction but not much profit!

Sadly, we are on a busy farm what with the construction business and my full time commitments on the farm the love of doing it for a few quid isnt an opinion.  I feel like Im drowning here and on the go constantly.  The poultry need to be kept to a min and while I enjoy it I have so much to do.  Think I'll just keep it going until Christmas and then just supply a few neighbours and family let everyone else know its packing up (knowing my luck that day they will suddenly all start laying again!)

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I hate to say this.... but if I were in your position I would cull the lot, accept any losses, which is all we can do am afraid and disinfect everything, let the pasture rest. Then after about 6 months start over from reputable breeders, maybe start your own  purebred flock and breed them up (say RIR?) You could also try and go into the meat business rearing meat chickens and selling on the carcasses, or even have a mixed flock of both meat and eggs. I know it won't be that big a business, but it may be better that atm. I am so sorry that you have had to go through this due to the negligence of other breeders and I hope you can get this sorted soon! Sorry if my comment sounds a bit rash All the best with everything and I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.

[farmers wife]

I hate to say this.... but if I were in your position I would cull the lot, accept any losses, which is all we can do am afraid and disinfect everything, let the pasture rest. Then after about 6 months start over from reputable breeders, maybe start your own  purebred flock and breed them up (say RIR?) You could also try and go into the meat business rearing meat chickens and selling on the carcasses, or even have a mixed flock of both meat and eggs. I know it won't be that big a business, but it may be better that atm. I am so sorry that you have had to go through this due to the negligence of other breeders and I hope you can get this sorted soon! Sorry if my comment sounds a bit rash All the best with everything and I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.

No its not rash or hard it is true however, because of the investment already I need to squeeze as many eggs out to recoup that £300 plus vets fees plus the 1 tonne of food Ive had delivered (not far off £800!!!).  I seriously dont think a small egg business is worth the bother like I said prev to make a good income you need to get in the thousands. I'm going to raise meat birds in the spring but looking at supplying my own freezer.


Over the years since I've been married to a farmer my general consensus is to stay small or go big being in the middle is dangerous ground. I think its better overall to be self sufficient on the small stuff and the cows and sheep more commercial.


Constantly learning!