[AndynJ]

Before I go ahead I'm asking for suggestions opinions.
Over the past 4 years we have become more commercial with our layers but now need to sort it once and for all.
Don't want to go above the 100 due to legislation
We currently have 56, we currently can't meet demand (gate sales only)

Requirement chicken shed 100 layers, conveyor & packing room

Looking at one of the shed manufacturers they state they use an Italian box and conveyor

I would like to either make or buy this shed as close to a commercial unit as possible
It won't be moved, the hens will have 1/3rd of an acre 50mm fenced with 400mm sunk 2m high plus double strand electric fence around. They will not be let out of the run.
Electric pop holes, lighting (would anyone suggest heating ? if so what and why?)
Does anyone have any suggestions of manufacturers of boxes and conveyors ?
If the shed won't be moved should I still go for removable slatted floors or not ?
Should I oversize the shed or not (It will never occupy more than 100)

It would be interesting to hear from anyone that currently runs 100 layers or more, to see what you do.

We have been asked to supply trade as well, without knowing the exact figures I'd prefer to stay small.
We gate sell at £1.20 a half
We buy feed in at 33p/kilo pellets
We sprout wheat at 6p/kilo
& grow wheat to 50mm at 7p/kilo
Water is free as we have 52000 litre rainwater tanks with solar circulating pumps.

We have had enquiries for 600 per week and 1200 per week plus 2 cafes have asked us for prices, If we stepped up to this size we would need to stamp etc what are the true set up costs and time commitment to moving up?
What kind of price could I get from café & price from the 2 shops ?

[Dave C]

If you sell eggs to shops or catering outlets you must be approved and authorised as a packing centre by APHA so you can grade them as Class A eggs, but I think this is free to apply for.

Interesting thread I'm looking forward to reading your replies.

Good luck with the new venture   

[AndynJ]

If you sell eggs to shops or catering outlets you must be approved and authorised as a packing centre by APHA so you can grade them as Class A eggs, but I think this is free to apply for.

Interesting thread I'm looking forward to reading your replies.

Good luck with the new venture   

Over 50 hens new rules then 100 takes you into the next one then 500 the next level.
You can sell to end users as "gate sales" so to a café or on a market stall.
That's why I asked what the costs would be to set up to go to the next level ie not gate sales, I kind of think it wouldn't be viable to have say 200 or even 500 I too will wait and see what replies come in.

[Marches Farmer]

I believe there's a commercial pig and poultry show at Stoneleigh - went once and loads of equipment manufacturers.

[AndynJ]

Thanks

[farmers wife]

Huh why would you need a conveyor & packing room for 100 hens assuming say 90 eggs per day in first year?  thats utter madness the machine would be running for no reason - you can collect most of these by hand in 10 minutes with roll away boxes.  Not only that but your costs have escalated already and to be frank you are already in debt.  My packing room is my utility room it works perfectly fine only takes a few minutes.  Even though my numbers have dropped significantly I have been through a big learning curve.


This enterprise isnt this size doesnt warrant anything like you are discussing you seem to be crossing into the real commercial market where you need thousands - sheds of 12,000.


Sorry your figures are way out. If your selling at £1.20 again you are significantly underselling.  £1.50 is the bear min in this market.  A POL chicken is £8 (whether you buy or or raise) you need to refresh over 12-18 months. 


As I said in other post you need to price 1. 100 x £8 pullets. 2. Set up costs when are you looking to break even on all this investment - 5yrs? 3. labour 4. vets fees 5. Meds @ £20 a bottle ABs,  wormers costing x3 £90 a half a year poss £180 per yr. 6. Ad hoc aliments like red mite treatments 7. Loses (could be wipped out) 8. buying in bulk feed say £400ish a ton (I need to sit down and work out how long that lasts - maybe 4ts) 9. boxes and labels 10. fuel in delivery 11. time spent marketing......   


I raise on pasture system - my costs are £1.20 per box hence I sell £2 for 6 £3.80 for 12 and £8.50 per tray.


I think your barking up the wrong tree with 100 hens.  Taste the Difference eggs in Sainsburys are well over £2.20 a box and Burfords are well dear.


Forget any cafes or commercial enterprises - they buy from Brooker C&C at around a couple of pounds for a tray they couldnt care a @hit where they come from and wont entertain paying the going rate I have friends in catering and even they wont buy from me in reduced bulk.


You need to go and do some site visits of what others are doing - you are confused crossing into the serious commercial market of 12000 where numbers are high on tiny margins. Micro industries like ours work on small numbers bigger margins.


100 hens is really a hobby, its ok but a few hundred pound a month if your lucky (taking out set up costs that is).

[AndynJ]

Huh why would you need a conveyor & packing room for 100 hens assuming say 90 eggs per day in first year?  thats utter madness the machine would be running for no reason - you can collect most of these by hand in 10 minutes with roll away boxes.  Not only that but your costs have escalated already and to be frank you are already in debt.  My packing room is my utility room it works perfectly fine only takes a few minutes.  Even though my numbers have dropped significantly I have been through a big learning curve.


This enterprise isnt this size doesnt warrant anything like you are discussing you seem to be crossing into the real commercial market where you need thousands - sheds of 12,000.


Sorry your figures are way out. If your selling at £1.20 again you are significantly underselling.  £1.50 is the bear min in this market.  A POL chicken is £8 (whether you buy or or raise) you need to refresh over 12-18 months. 


As I said in other post you need to price 1. 100 x £8 pullets. 2. Set up costs when are you looking to break even on all this investment - 5yrs? 3. labour 4. vets fees 5. Meds @ £20 a bottle ABs,  wormers costing x3 £90 a half a year poss £180 per yr. 6. Ad hoc aliments like red mite treatments 7. Loses (could be wipped out) 8. buying in bulk feed say £400ish a ton (I need to sit down and work out how long that lasts - maybe 4ts) 9. boxes and labels 10. fuel in delivery 11. time spent marketing......   


I raise on pasture system - my costs are £1.20 per box hence I sell £2 for 6 £3.80 for 12 and £8.50 per tray.


I think your barking up the wrong tree with 100 hens.  Taste the Difference eggs in Sainsburys are well over £2.20 a box and Burfords are well dear.


Forget any cafes or commercial enterprises - they buy from Brooker C&C at around a couple of pounds for a tray they couldnt care a @hit where they come from and wont entertain paying the going rate I have friends in catering and even they wont buy from me in reduced bulk.


You need to go and do some site visits of what others are doing - you are confused crossing into the serious commercial market of 12000 where numbers are high on tiny margins. Micro industries like ours work on small numbers bigger margins.


100 hens is really a hobby, its ok but a few hundred pound a month if your lucky (taking out set up costs that is).

Thank you for your "brutal" in depth reply.
Maybe my post wasn't clear, we want to step up to a 100 from our current 56, we will then gradually grow dependant on sales, probably to a max of 350.
We currently pay £4.90 for our hens from Blakes of Cornwall whom we believe supply good hens and we have been dealing with for over 10 years. They are usually 8 weeks.
Our feed costs £330 a ton, we have to collect it though.
We currently run 18 months turnover then move layers into a sprouted wheat compound (no layers pellets) then as they stop laying send them to market, the last 25 fetched £71 after fees.
Meds, vets etc = totally agree.
Wipe out = yes that's hard, we lost approx. 40 last year in one hit.
Boxes = currently have a lot of reuse.
Delivery = currently none
Marketing currently = none
The entrance to our gate has a 90 metre splay which we recently tarmacked, perfect pull in, it has worked really well, we have 16000 vehicles pass by weekly, we have a 3% theft issue this is so low because we have installed a full viewing camera system in the egg collection box, you open the door and the screen at the back rolls a camera showing you in full display.
I will take on board your comment re price, I would like to increase pricing, I have 2 competitors very close by both at £1.20 however ours is easier to pull in at.

As for conveyor, I had seen one that was manual you just turn a handle and the eggs come into the packing room.
As for a packing room, we currently have a separate fridge, 1 upper and lower cupboard and 600mm of worksurface in the utility permanently set up for eggs, I was thinking a 600mm wide packing room with fridge oneside and worksurface etc the other in order to take it away from our living space. (this will need to be a must).

I do want to hear about and go and see other peoples set ups.
We have been getting more serious about egg production every year for the last 4 we now want to forward plan for the next 10 years. I want to do my best to get it right, so I really do appreciate your input as it is making me think and reconsider somethings.

[AndynJ]

[member=2602]farmers wife[/member] Thanks again for your replies. So taking on board your knowledge.

Our meadow is flat, we have a pick up as a tow vehicle only.

How about we Chicken wire the entire perimeter approx. 350 metres plus another area of 150 metres to 1 metre high (2 sides of the meadow are accessible by the public) then inside the meadow put lines of timber posts in use these to secure temporary poultry netting for individual runs, have 4 coops with easy access egg collection. Have slatted floors and coops on skids.

It must be difficult to picture but,
Questions,
1. Would I run elec netting or 2 strand wire inside the perimeter fence for protection ? (I'm hoping you'll tell me I will rarely need to turn it on) or not bother ? I can't run 6' chicken wire due to visual issues.
2. Would my pick up pull a coop suitable for 50 birds or not ?
3. when do you move the coops in the day or at night ?

I like the idea of moving them around, how often do you move them weekly ?
Our current run has no grass, we currently sprout wheat, in trays on the floor with mesh protection over, then we provide roughly 5kg of 40mm wheat sprouts then 1kg of day old sprouts. This keeps our feed costs down massively and we lose approx. 5% egg production.

[farmers wife]

Sorry about that it did read you were aiming at 100 hens - reading the packing shed and conveyor really had visions of an automated system.  Even 350 is very small.  You are lucky you have passing trade.  I dont I deliver ever box.  The worst thing you can do is undercut your competitors and this is to the detriment of your profit.  Its what you can offer better than you competitors that wins.  In farming never keep below competitors this is the reason why we are all in a mess I think some people havent a clue on costs. Just because they are underselling is dangerous to underscore them. People buy into a belief and if yours are organic or high welfare with lots of adverts and gimmicks people love it more than selling £1 down the road.


Dont forget if yr getting hens from 8 weeks you are feeding to 20 weeks.  I have worked this out to buy POLs it costs £8 to rear and same to buy.  Some will be more.  But on my system this is my figures.


I have been told you should not add new to old in numbers its far too stressful and you should have separate housing for new additions.


I have no idea on the cost of a new hen house plus with more sawdust/waste, feeders and water supply, disinfectants not sure if youll need a mask to clear them out I know friends that tell me about working in chicken sheds and its not nice -  have you a figure in mind?


I def dont refrigerate either especially if they are not washed.  Its USA that's obsessed with that and the Egg board guy was dead against it. Shelf life of egg is 28 days at room temp. If your selling on road side youll need to lable use by date too.  I dont no one questions it.


Honestly dont panic about the space in the packing area - there are no rules as long as its vermin and contamination free.


I think an egg business is good if used to advertise another/work in conjunction with another business - our farm and our ideals that we want the locals to back us and help build a community however I still question whether its much profit - have you worked yours out? Have you counted up the man hours?  I only spend 5 mins a week advertising on FB then deliver on Friday morning I have worked out my man hours and it cant take up anymore time.  My biggest problems are aliments and moving the eggmobile around.  I deal with the aliments but husband does the moving. I have lost a lot of hens to all sorts of reasons.


Saying that I would like to increase my numbers the problems to consider 1. cost of building new eggmobile 2. purchase POLs 3. Finding reliable markets which need to be very local 4. disease and aliments 5. time elements we are already struggling to get away and family/home commitments.  Part of me thinks should of kept to 10 birds for our own use!


Be interested to follow how you get on...

[Victorian Farmer]

We have about 100 hens which have just been sold as we are consontrating on blue eggs. We had 43 Marrans and 53 legbars in 3 pens. I built the pens myself to give them space in the winter. Solar lighting and heat a 14 kw wood burner. The pens work quite well. So naw hatching the new stock for January 2017 the hens we had were 3 seasons old and not up to the job