[pointer]

Hi, we're currently trying to plan how to set up the inside of our cattle shed. It will be housing about 6 beasts over winter, and will be used for calving too. We want the set-up to make feeding, dosing, handling and cleaning as easy as possible. It would be great to know how others have done this, with gates, hurdles, yokes, feed rings/barriers, troughs etc. There is a budget for this but, of course, a limited one. All suggestions gratefully received - plans / sketches especially welcome!
thanks

[Scotsdumpy]

Hi pointer - how big is your shed? Is it a traditional steading? We are in the process of making our shed into a cattle shed to take our cows out of a traditional Scottish steading. Good luck anyway, let us know how you get on with pics of course!! Dan and Rosemary have some interesting pictures on their cattle info page.

[pointer]

Hi Scotsdumpy, thanks for the reply. It's 45x30 (foot) steel shed. We're wondering about having permanent pens, barriers etc, or just using hurdles, as we'd want to take it all out at the end of the winter for a proper clean of the building. There are plenty of ideas on farming sites, but so much bigger scale that they're of limited help to us!

[shep53]

Silage or hay ( big or small bales )   straw (big or small ) and a loader to handle ,  my preference would by hay as you will use less straw for bedding .    I would go for a barrier with self locking yolks over  a feed ring  less waste and the ability to trap an animal and do things to it . What size of beasts as this will affect handling facilities

[Marches Farmer]

We use cattle hurdles for calf-rearing in the lambing shed, some with pedestrian gates.  If you have any plastic water pipe where they can reach it either change the route or get some metal pipe to fit over it.  If I kept the calves beyond 8 months I'd have a basic cattle crush with rump bar.

[pointer]

Thanks for the replies. In answer to your questions:
I'd feed round-bale hay to inwintered youngstock (weaned calves - yearlings) for the reasons you suggest - cost of straw in the West, so would try to minimize the need for it. No loader or other machinery at present - another reason for hay, which I can man-handle, rather than silage. Medium-sized native cross cows would each be in for maybe a week or so around calving.
Good point about water pipe route.
One of the things I'm trying to decide is whether to have sockets in the floor to take semi-permanent pens and kit, or hurdles. I'm not that familiar with how these are set up - is it relatively straightforward to remove gear from sockets for mucking out after turn-out?
And based on both your replies, you've hit on one of the decisions I have to make - self-locking feed barrier, or plain diagonal barrier plus crush? Again, would appreciate thoughts on pros and cons of each.
thanks

[SallyintNorth]

We fitted locking yokes in one part of our cubicles, and diagonal barrier in the other.  You can't lock them and leave them, so in practise you don't lock them.  In which case, they just cost more, take more space, and are horribly noisy. 

We had visions of locking up a beast we wanted the vet to see, or the AI to serve, but because only the head is locked it's not very safe to do AI because the beast can swing its body.  So a race is preferable, a crush best.  A good gate you can really hold steady up against them is probably better too.

If you do fit yokes, make sure you allow at least the distance per beast they recommend.  In practise, again, a bully cow will still bully the beasts on either side of her, and if they're locked in, they can't evade.  So they must have enough space.

With only 6 beasts, you won't be able to use up a bale of silage before it's off anyway, so yes, use hay. 

If your budget runs to it, cubicles and mattresses will save a fortune on straw.  But they'll only work if all the beasts are a similar size; you need the width and length just right, otherwise you get pooing on the mats.  Oh, and they only really work for females, of course - males just widdle on them.  . 

[shep53]

Even with self lockers you still need a race and crush , the only advantages are that they can't draw their heads back while eating forage so waste less /  you can feed as individuals if necessary  / no bullying  and you can do simple treatments pour - on / injections .     Metal sleeves work ok  you can remove pens , gates but easier with a loader

[SallyintNorth]

Forgot to mention that you can't neck a single beast, leaving the others loose.  The loose ones will just pummel the one that's locked up.

Re: wasting forage, we get very little - hardly any, really - dragged through the diagonal barriers.  Certainly not enough to justify the expense of locking yokes.

[Buttermilk]

We made a swing over drop down bar which would lock necks into ordinary sloping feed barriers.  It got used more often to keep them from putting their heads into the feed passage than for keeping them there.

[pointer]

Thanks again for all the advice. I wonder if I can have a few follow-up questions?
First, excuse my ignorance, but how exactly do the cubicles work? - I've got a very rough idea, but never quite figured it out! And I take it they'd have to be permanent fixtures? Anything to save on straw would be a help.
For feed barriers of either kind, how are they fixed in place, and does the bottom bar need to be a set distance off the floor?
re metal sleeves for making gate/pen posts removable - can they just be DIY, or do customized ones come with different makes of gate posts? And how far into the floor do they go?
I probably had been inclining to self-locking barriers - I'd read that having the barrier full of animals helped to negate the 'swinging round' issue. But if they 'clang' noisily and I'd need a crush as well anyway ( I do currently have an old one), then maybe I'll be better just going for plain diagonals.
If you don't mind, would also be good to get your thoughts on watering - floor-mounted trough, wall-mounted bowl, or hose in a barrel?
I think that's me done - for now...!

[SallyintNorth]

Yes I think cubicles would need to be permanent, or at least semi-permanent.  We have the IAE ones, lots of good info on their website. 

Our best trough arrangement is mains-connected, mounted on blocks so it's a comfortable height for them to drink, recessed so it's not easy for them to poo into (although they do of course manage sometimes .). By 'recessed', I mean that the front face of the trough is flush with the wall of their enclosure; if you have the whole trough in their space they will manage to poo into it far more often.

[SallyintNorth]

The IAE site and brochures have lots of good info about recommended spacings, fixing heights, materials and so on too.  Our feed barriers are mounted on a row of breeze blocks ( or the modern precast equivalent).

Bateman are also worth a look.  We bought our crush and external pens from them, and would have looked at getting cubicles from them had we thought about them at the time.  (We got the cubicles a couple of years earlier than the external pens.)

[shep53]

The problem for you with cubicles is you have no equipment to handle the muck/slurry from behind the cubicles and to store it .  water troughs are most commonly used for cattle but bowls are easier to keep fresh and would work for the small amount of cattle you have .   Could you make deep litter beds out of peat or cut and dry bracken for bedding .     Metal sleeves need to be set in concrete a  foot or more and the you drop in posts to hang  the gates from .   Feed barriers can come  in ready to use sections or   ex   motorway crash barriers  2 at the bottom and 1 for the head are very strong

[farmers wife]

If you use square hay bales and pile them up you can use this as a wall and then take a few slices and drop them into a manger below.  I have a number of cattle and this worked from the Joel Salatin book.  Allow for muck building up so a manger needs to have ropes on pulleys to move it up.  You can gain a considerable depth of muck over winter I dont think Ive ever seen ours so thick due to the beasts going out late. You do not want to be cleaning out or losing nutrients or run off so leaving it in there to crust and break down with help make the best compost.


Our cubicles are put in close to calving using the cattle hurdles which are self supporting (pins) and you could knock up some fixtures on the wall.  The mistake we made is that we didnt have a calving pen with yolk and this will be one for next year - you can use the hurdles and gates to enclose the animal.  Outside is our run and crush.  You can buy good crush on ebay quite cheap.  Ensure there is a closing gate.  Use crash barriers as a run.  Watch the height as you get the odd jumper.


If you make any fixtures permanent then clearing out is a problem and you never know what other options you may have.  Take it all down, steam clean and pack away.