[Anke]

Leucillin has not been developed to treat pink eye as such (it is not an AB), and in using it rather than a proven AB you may be in the same boat as using terramycin spray (which btw also hurts if used as a foot spray for scald, wound treatment etc - something it is clearly recommended for). Given that terramycin has a proven record to treat pink eye, I mm not surprised that it is used in the form readily available on all sheep farms.... so far for me Orbenin has done the trick and I will keep Terramycin in mind if/when Orbenin doesn't work anymore. BTW you can get Terramycin in ointment form too, specifically for eye bacterial infections, and it is quite cheap...

[ladyK]

BTW you can get Terramycin in ointment form too, specifically for eye bacterial infections, and it is quite cheap...

Can you post a link Anke?
I tried to look into this myself, and while a quick search seemed to show it was indeed available and cheap, looking into the links closer it turned out it would have to be shipped from the US (via Turkey) and the shipping costs were ridiculous. Couldn't find a UK source at all (NOAH only lists terramycin as injectable or cutaneous spray ).

Maybe I missed something, so if you have found a better source could you let us know?

[landroverroy]

 But in the meantime Lady K -  how are things going with your sheep?

[Anke]

BTW you can get Terramycin in ointment form too, specifically for eye bacterial infections, and it is quite cheap...

Can you post a link Anke?
I tried to look into this myself, and while a quick search seemed to show it was indeed available and cheap, looking into the links closer it turned out it would have to be shipped from the US (via Turkey) and the shipping costs were ridiculous. Couldn't find a UK source at all (NOAH only lists terramycin as injectable or cutaneous spray ).

Maybe I missed something, so if you have found a better source could you let us know?

http://www.easy2order.net/view/pfizer/6044/terramycin-eye-ointment-for-pets-35g

I did not look into postage costs in great detail, as it is not relevant to my flock at the moment, but I strongly believe that bacterial infections need AB treatment.... if you are still not have had any improvements or are still getting re-infections you may have a strain that is resistant to penicillin type drugs, and therefore changing to something else may be necessary. Quite frankly if you have been struggling with this for weeks you have really no choice, but use another AB in the form currently available in the UK.... even if some people disagree with that treatment. 

[kanisha]

Is this the only alternative choice of AB? 

It may be that it is necessary to be more creative with the treatment of common ailments due to the increased risk of antibiotic resistance.

On the other hand terramycin spray may work well as its a combination of two  approaches of treatment. Product manufacturers take note? 

[ladyK]

Things are looking up, but I don't want to jinx myself...
Among the group with the first outbreak everyone looks happy and eyes are healing, 10 days without a relapse now, so maybe we're winning, but can't be sure yet. Crossing my fingers every day! 
In the second field were it broke out 10 days ago (when I first posted), I saw the first signs of improvement yesterday (no more miserable sheep, those badly affected look like they have regained some sight). It has gone through everyone now, and no relapses yet but it's too early to tell if it's over...  If the second field get over it in 2 weeks without AB jabs that compares rather well to the first field where I gave AB jabs and it took them 5 weeks to get over it, and I still have some badly scrarred eyes.

My problem wasn't that the ABs were not working, they did initially seem to clear up the first signs of infection. My problem was the relapses that followed with aggressive deterioration of the eyes into deep ulceration, which I found very scary - further doses of ABs or Opticlox didn't help at that stage, and the vet had nothing else to suggest.
It's worth noting that the new ram who brought in the infection in the first place got over it in just a few days with as much as a single application of saline eye wash (I didn't have anything else to hand when I first noticed it). He never got severely affected nor did he have a relapse at all despite all sheep around him coming down with it for weeks to follow. Obviously his immune system has dealt with this infection before and was able to fight it quite swiftly and successfully on his own.
So I started thinking that the relapsing problem was down to their immune system not being able to build up a proper response. I can see how a single application of Orbenin or Terramycin or whatever might stop the infection in its tracks IF the animal can quickly mount a proper immune response at the same time and get over it after the first treatment. Unfortunately it seems my animals didn't manage that for whatever reason - only the ram did - even though I've never had any other problems in the whole flock.
So in my case the topical application was more successful as a way of keeping sore eyes comfortable/lubricated and as clean as possible as the body gets on with the healing.

But that's just my sheep and my situation, and my first encounter of pink eye so it took me a while to work out an approach that works for my animals - not without the help of you TAS people 
Everyone's sheep and situation is different.

[ladyK]

http://www.easy2order.net/view/pfizer/6044/terramycin-eye-ointment-for-pets-35g

Thanks for this Anke, I had not come across that link.
Everything on this site ships from Thailand but I will try to stock up on this for the future, if it let's me place an order.

[SallyintNorth]

I strongly believe that bacterial infections need AB treatment....

If only antibiotics killed bacteria, we'd need to use antibiotics to cleanse our dairy equipment etc.

Paraphrasing the material on the Leucillin website, Leucillin is hypochlorous acid, ie, bleach, and is a chemical produced by leucocytes in your body to fight infection caused by invading microorganisms or pathogens (bacterial, viral and fungal.)

Hypochlorous is one of the most effective and efficient biocides known to man. Whilst being totally safe, it is 300 times more effective than bleach and is almost instant in its effect and unlike antibiotics, bacteria do not develop immunity to it.

Which all said, I do agree that there's no clinical information about using it for pink eye, whereas terramycin powder is licensed for that purpose.

I have to say, however, when we had the first outbreak on the moorland farm, and wanted to treat it, the powder did seem to cause some discomfort - and I couldn't really say the ones getting the powder recovered any better or faster than those who subsequently had the injection into the eyelid, nor than those - the last group - who had no treatment whatsoever.  We concluded there was no real difference in recovery whichever treatment we gave, or none, so in subsequent years we used to let it run its course - and we never had it as bad again as that first time, when we were bringing the sheep into the treatment shed.

[Robyn]

Now that we all know we can get Leucillin as a spray, which kills bacteria and doesn't hurt in the eyes, I can't think that anyone would be contemplating using terramycin, which most of us have at some time sprayed on our own cut skin if not our eyes, and know fine well it stings, even if only briefly.

Definitely Sally 

I definitely won't be changing a treatment which I've used successfully for years on the back of other people's opinions. I inject Alamycin LA into the lower eyelid and until it was removed from circulation, used Aureomycin powder (puffer) onto the eyeball, now I spray Terramycin onto the infected eyeball, exactly as my Vet did when I took a ewe in for him to see. It is very rare to have to treat the same animal twice for the same infection. A little short term pain for long term gain is surely better than accepting prolonged pain and stress through infection and blistering which can cause temporary vision loss when a preferred treatment doesn't work, as seems to be the case for the OP.

I trust my Vet completely and just like you 'Me', he thinks outside the box and animal welfare is his main priority. It's very sad that valued members such as yourself, whose opinions and advice have helped so many on here feel they need to leave the forum on the back of strong opinions of a few. I can't help thinking that this Forum shall be all the poorer for these losses.

[ladyK]

when a preferred treatment doesn't work, as seems to be the case for the OP.

Just to clarify I wasn't following a 'preferred treatment', I have been following my vets recommendations, and that included two visits and examination of the worst affected animals, not just over the phone advice.

[Robyn]

when a preferred treatment doesn't work, as seems to be the case for the OP.

Just to clarify I wasn't following a 'preferred treatment', I have been following my vets recommendations, and that included two visits and examination of the worst affected animals, not just over the phone advice.

I'm not having a dig at you, but I do feel that the situation should have been under control quite some time ago, these animals by now will have been subjected to pain levels that far exceed any they would have endured through spraying terramycin into the eye. Clearly, as you say, the 'preferred treatment' was that of your Vets, not your own, and as I said

I trust my Vet completely and just like you 'Me', he thinks outside the box and animal welfare is his main priority.

I hope for your sake as well as the sheep's that this clears up pretty soon.

[kanisha]

difficult isn't it when a standard treatment doesn't appear to be working. Would the fact that it had some effect and then came back with a vengence give more credance to the possibility that it is developing a resistance to the antibiotic?